ricojes Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Whitner - Just because you like Cutler over Whitner doesnt make him a bust. Whitner is an up and coming safety in this league and a pretty good safety already. He has some stuff to work on still, but no way a bust. Taking a QB is no rocket science, and in fact, Leinart was graded higher than Cutler to show that its easy to look back now and say should have could have. Four players taken ahead of Whitner are TRUE busts to this point... Exactly! Leinart was rated higher than Cutler and would have been the Bills pick had they gone QB. I still remember when the Raiders past on him, it was definitely interesting when the Bills picked next to say the least. But Cutler wasn't even in the conversation at that time, it was Leinart or pick another position. In hindsight it would have been a great move, but all hindsight moves are great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Hang on there, dude: Evans had more receiving yards in 2008 than TJ Houshmandzedah and Wes Welker, both of whom made the pro bowl. He also had 1 fewer TD catch than Housh and the same number of TD receptions as Welker. Top it off with the fact that Evans has better career numbers than Andre Reed had through his 5th season, and Reed had a Hall of Fame QB throwing to him. I'd call that a big deal, wouldn't you? Maybe Housh' doesn't below in the Pro Bowl. Peters certainly didn't. Evans was for 2008: 19'th in receiving yards 33'rd in receptions Tied at 61'th with 40 other guys with 3 TDs We don't agree. I expect a lot more than 3 TDs from a guy making $ 9 Mil. a year also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweatpantsjoe Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have to agree......I don't understand why the Bills fans get all excited about the draft. Other than Lee Evans, every first round pick goes on to either be a bust or leave via Free Agency. The trend started well before Modrak got here. 99 Winfield-left via free agency 00 Flowers-bust 01 Clements - left via free agency These are the guys that are suposed to be the ones you build your franchise around. No wonder this team is the dripping *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Wow Poland, In just a few short days, you've established an impressive legacy of pointing out problems and offering no solutions. I know you're trying to tell it like it is. But not everything associated with this franchise (including us) is bad and in need of fixing. For me this message board is not a way to spray negativity into the universe. There are already too many people who post here who are either unhappy or negative (in life or about the Bills) and have to manifest this onto the rest of mankind. I try to come here for intelligent sports talk. Not the unfunny one-line, "quips" that offer no solutions that abound around here. Nor the longer, "the sky is falling and we're all about to die" essays. Good, solid (if hypothetical) football takes from people who decide that if they could do it again, they would want to come back as the General Manager (or at least an advisor) of the Buffalo Bills. So let me play devil's advocate to your claim that, and I'll paraphrase you, that "the Bills under the guidance of Tom Modrak do a generally poor job of choosing talent and as a result, none of us should really concern ourselves with discussing the draft. Firstly, how have they done drafting? I don't know of any reliable statistical analysis which grades NFL teams reliably on their recent past drafts. Like all teams there are hits and misses. Some people here like to point out that we could have had Tom Brady. So could have every other team in the NFL...six times. Yes I'd rather have Haloti Ngata than Donte Whitner but on the other hand only Mario Williams and D'Brickashaw Ferguson have outplayed Whitner of those who were taken before him. Look, without a real scientific study showing who drafted who when, how long that player played for that team, how good a player that player was, etc. we don't really know if the Bills are better or worse than the average NFL team in terms of recent drafts. But for the sake of discussion, I'll go along with your criticism: The Bills draft poorly since Modrak's been here. Okay. So how much has Modrak been a part of that? Well, he's never been general manager, he's never been President. He's never been Vice President for Football Operations. In other words, he's basically a scout, super-scout if you prefer. How much weight does he have in decisions? We don't know. All we know is that Brandon, Modrak, Guy, Wilson, and Jauron are making collaborative decisions. This has been the basic approach since Marv succeeded Donahoe. Now we hear that Modrak will have more say. Is that a good thing? We don't know but as you suggest, less of Brandon and more of Modrak probably is a good thing. As another poster pointed out, Buddy Nix returned to the Bills organization a few months ago. Last season he was Assistant General Manager and Director of Player Personnel for the San Diego Chargers. He's a very respected evaluator. The story is that there was a falling out between Nix and A.J. Smith (yes another person Smith pissed off) who Nix left Buffalo to go to San Diego with in the first place. The hiring of Nix to me seems like the Bills are weighting the decision making more towards the scouting department again and away from Brandon. So this is cause for optimism. I'm excited about the Bills offseason. I am perhaps overly optimistic but I'd rather that than come here and just negatively pollute the board every day. Russ - instead of wasting time on a message board defending your out of town clown, why don't you get the Peters deal done so we will have something positive to hang onto. The failure of the Bills in the draft is not just the specific players picked, but the total lack of understanding that winning teams build a dominant OL and front 7 thru the draft - not chasing high glitz RBs, WRs and DBs. Any player taken in the top 12 of the draft needs to be a gamebreaker - Lynch is too slow and dumb to ever amount to more than an average starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Russ - instead of wasting time on a message board defending your out of town clown, why don't you get the Peters deal done so we will have something positive to hang onto. The failure of the Bills in the draft is not just the specific players picked, but the total lack of understanding that winning teams build a dominant OL and front 7 thru the draft - not chasing high glitz RBs, WRs and DBs. Any player taken in the top 12 of the draft needs to be a gamebreaker - Lynch is too slow and dumb to ever amount to more than an average starter. Spartacus, I only stated that I don't lay all the blame for the Bills' draft failures at the feet of Tom Modrak. My post was in reply to Poland who basically blames Modrak for the Bills' poor drafting. Since Donahoe left, the Bills have operated under a consensus model in terms of making selections. The decision making group includes/included Levy/Brandon, Ralph, Jauron, Modrak, and in terms of free agency, John Guy. Modrak has never been General Manager, President, or Director of Football Operations so I think it's unfair to put the blame on him. More to the point, the ultimate responsibility resides at the top. It was not Modrak who fired Bill Polian or John Butler and it's not Modrak who has final say on who we draft. If you blame anyone, you have to blame the boss, Ralph Wilson for putting together a flawed structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 If you look at the track record of the Bills draft with Modrak, it makes no sense for Bills fans to invest a whole lot of time discussing the draft. Being that the Bills do a shoddy job of evaluating NFL free agents who have already spent years in the league, it's almost expected that they're not going to excel at projecting what college players will do in the NFL. If they cannot gauge the ability of an NFL player how are they going to gauge they ability of a college player in the NFL? And their track record shows exactly that, it sucks. Worse yet they now have a guy in the gm role who has no business being there. If this team happens upon a good 1st round pick this year it will be by pure accident because it's obvious by now that they don't have clue one. Why does a drowning man Grab for a blade of grass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poland Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Any player taken in the top 12 of the draft needs to be a gamebreaker - Lynch is too slow and dumb to ever amount to more than an average starter. Yes. A lot of these fans are all giddy over this 'beast mode' hype without realizing that the moron isn't much more than an average rb. The same applies to Whitner, a horrible choice for where he was taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Yes.A lot of these fans are all giddy over this 'beast mode' hype without realizing that the moron isn't much more than an average rb. The same applies to Whitner, a horrible choice for where he was taken. Alright Poland. I've seen you criticize many things. Out of curiosity, what do you think we should do with the 11th pick overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poland Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Im a retard? Your player analysis is retarted and thank god you are not in our front office...First off, looking back at a draft you can always nit pick and say this or that. McGahee is a Pro Bowl running back and has been pretty productive in his career. Just because your panties are all in a wad over his dislike for Buffalo, doesnt mean he hasnt been productive. Pain in the rear his last year in Buffalo sure, but he isnt a bust. Losman - Has been handled terrible here and never developed...so I would label it a busted pick even though I think he could have been better handled. Evans no where near a bust Whitner - Just because you like Cutler over Whitner doesnt make him a bust. Whitner is an up and coming safety in this league and a pretty good safety already. He has some stuff to work on still, but no way a bust. Taking a QB is no rocket science, and in fact, Leinart was graded higher than Cutler to show that its easy to look back now and say should have could have. Four players taken ahead of Whitner are TRUE busts to this point... McCargo - Bust to this point... Lynch - This is where your retard instincts really took over...not even worth addressing your comments as they are about as dumb as I have seen on this board McKelvin - Has shown to be everything he was billed to be... You left off Poz who is clearly not a bust So, the only BUSTS are Williams (who had everyone fooled, not just us dumb azz), Losman and McCargo. All the other picks have been good to great picks. Thats a pretty good track record over that time frame, and one not many teams can match. So save your drama queen antics about how our draft history in the first rounds. You dont even know what a bust is...thats the sad part. In your mind if they are not an Elite player they are a bust which is about as dumb as your post. Losman was mishandled and never developed? So you're one of those morons that buys into that lame excuse! You answered your own question about being a retard with that comment alone. Whitner is an up and coming? He's played 3 years dumbass, any team can draft an average safety at #8! In 3 years he has 2 interceptions, 7 defended passes and 1 sack. Plenty of experts including myself had cutler rated as the best QB in that draft. Leinart was graded higher by who? Answer: the losers like you. Magahee was an all-pro where? He wasn't an all-pro in buffalo dumbass, all he got us was a couple of 3rd round draft choices. You should change your handle to Alpharetard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poland Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Exactly! Leinart was rated higher than Cutler and would have been the Bills pick had they gone QB. I still remember when the Raiders past on him, it was definitely interesting when the Bills picked next to say the least. But Cutler wasn't even in the conversation at that time, it was Leinart or pick another position. In hindsight it would have been a great move, but all hindsight moves are great... Stop taking information from dumbasses like alpharetard. That moron seems to think that every team in the league rates all Qbs in the same order. There is no such thing as...Leinart was graded higher and would have been the Bills choice. All teams have their own grades on players , there is no league-wide consensus. Modrak himself said that the Bills had Cutler rated as the best QB in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 So anyways, back to the question Poland. What do you think the Bills should do with the #11 pick? By the way, where's the hit and run artist Spartacus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poland Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 So anyways, back to the question Poland. What do you think the Bills should do with the #11 pick? By the way, where's the hit and run artist Spartacus? I don't know spartacus is, unless you are talking about the historical figure. As far as who they should draft, their biggest hole is pash rusher, that'll be what will make or break the Bills. But there is no telling who will be there when they pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I don't know spartacus is, unless you are talking about the historical figure. As far as who they should draft, their biggest hole is pash rusher, that'll be what will make or break the Bills. But there is no telling who will be there when they pick. I agree. The mock drafts vary widely. But if offensive tackle and quarterback go ahead of us we should have a shot at Orakpo, Brown, or Maybin in no particular order. Spartacus is the guy who coattailed our debate about Modrak and started calling me Russ (Brandon) and told me to "get the Peters deal done." I'm still not sure what the hell he was talking about. I guess he's sleeping off the acid trip right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poland Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 I agree. The mock drafts vary widely. But if offensive tackle and quarterback go ahead of us we should have a shot at Orakpo, Brown, or Maybin in no particular order. Spartacus is the guy who coattailed our debate about Modrak and started calling me Russ (Brandon) and told me to "get the Peters deal done." I'm still not sure what the hell he was talking about. I guess he's sleeping off the acid trip right now. Well I'd have to go back and read it to bring to mind who this spartacus is, we both know that there's no shortage of idiots on this board. Most of these clown can't argue a point rationally, their comments strictly revolve around coming to the defense of whichever players they idolize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Yes.A lot of these fans are all giddy over this 'beast mode' hype without realizing that the moron isn't much more than an average rb. The same applies to Whitner, a horrible choice for where he was taken. Average...yes, of course. Although I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, and maybe even solicit yet another piece of belligerant genius from Poland, let's take a look... Lynch's 2008 Stat Line: 250 carries, 1,036 yards, 4.1 ypc, 8 rushing touchdowns If that's considered average, then I'm sure you'll be willing to concede that the following players are no better than average as well: Steven Jackson (253 carries, 1,042 yards, 4.1 ypc, 7 touchdowns) Brian Westbrook (233 carries, 936 yards, 4.0 ypc, 9 touchdowns) Frank Gore (240 carries, 1,036 yards, 4.3 ypc, 6 touchdowns) LaDanian Tomlinson (292 carries, 1,110 yards, 3.8 ypc, 11 touchdowns) But wait, there's more! To give you the benefit of the doubt, let's just assume that these 2008 numbers are an anomaly. Lynch's 2007 Stat Line: 280 carries, 1,115 yards, 4.0 ypc, 7 rushing touchdowns **had to make a quick edit, typed the wrong # of TDs here the first time If that's considered average, then I'm sure you'll be willing to concede that the following players are no better than average as well: Brian Westbrook (278 carries, 1,333 yards, 4.8 ypc, 7 touchdowns) Clinton Portis (325 carris, 1,262 yards, 3.9 ypc, 11 touchdowns) Frank Gore (260 carries, 1,102 yards, 4.2 ypc, 5 touchdowns) Joseph Addai (261 carries, 1,072 yards, 4.1 ypc, 12 touchdowns) Thomas Jones (310 carries, 1,119 yards, 3.6 ypc, 1 touchdown) So, either all these guys are no better than "average", or you're once again just talking out your rear end for the sake of being argumentative. Look dude, you may not like Lynch (obviously), but he's not exactly the garbage RB you'd like people to believe he is, and you have absolutely nothing with which to back up that kind of talk. He is a very good player. But hey, maybe I'm just being a huge liar again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poland Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Nice try - you didn't check out anything. You didn't have to - you've been here all along. I didn't have to? One thing I didn't have to do is expose you, after reading some of your posts I'm sure that nothing I said about you is news to anyone here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Dam Poland, you put a lot of work into being a complete jackass... Your analysis skills are a joke, in fact, it seems to be so stupid that you are almost saying it just to get a rise out of people rather than actually believe this gibberish you type...you clearly have never played football...you probably are 16 years old or younger judging by your childish behavior on this board and get off on trying to annoy people on a message board. I look forward to seeing you on season 2 of the "Tool Academy"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poland Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Average...yes, of course. Although I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, and maybe even solicit yet another piece of belligerant genius from Poland, let's take a look... Lynch's 2008 Stat Line: 250 carries, 1,036 yards, 4.1 ypc, 8 rushing touchdowns If that's considered average, then I'm sure you'll be willing to concede that the following players are no better than average as well: Steven Jackson (253 carries, 1,042 yards, 4.1 ypc, 7 touchdowns) Brian Westbrook (233 carries, 936 yards, 4.0 ypc, 9 touchdowns) Frank Gore (240 carries, 1,036 yards, 4.3 ypc, 6 touchdowns) LaDanian Tomlinson (292 carries, 1,110 yards, 3.8 ypc, 11 touchdowns) But hey, maybe I'm just being a huge liar again. What I put in bold is the most accurate statement you made. I wouldn't call you a liar but I would say that you are someone that likes to tell himself a story that he wants to believe and hopes that he convinces others. So what you do is compare lynch's best season to what is for some of those backs one of their worst seasons. tomlinson 2003 rushing-1645 yards 5.3 ypc tds-13 receiving-725 yards tds-4 2006 rushing-1815 yards 5.2 ypc tds-28 receiving-508 yards tds-3 You were saying? Do you ever see lynch putting up those kind of numbers? I bet you do. I'm belligerant? This is coming from who, someone who wants to believe lynch compares to tomlinson? What are you going to tell me next...beast mode? Is that what you're going to tell me? You need a dose of reality boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie do-right Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The more everyone argues with Poland the bigger his hardXon gets. Ignore him and hopefuly he'll go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poland Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Dam Poland, you put a lot of work into being a complete jackass... Your analysis skills are a joke, in fact, it seems to be so stupid that you are almost saying it just to get a rise out of people rather than actually believe this gibberish you type...you clearly have never played football...you probably are 16 years old or younger judging by your childish behavior on this board and get off on trying to annoy people on a message board. I look forward to seeing you on season 2 of the "Tool Academy"... The only television appearance you'll ever make is poster boy on a telethon for AIDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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