Thurman#1 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Lol...good question...no one has but everyone seems to think they have... Nobody has called Hardy a bust? Try re-reading this thread. If that's not enough, use the search function and search for "Hardy" in the title of the thread. I would guess 80 - 90% of those threads will have someone calling him a bust. You know, I'm still hoping the guy turns out well. There's still a decent chance. But for all of the people who are saying "Oh, but he never adjusted to defenses in college," and "Oh, but his route-running is terrible," and all the (at this point, legitimate) excuses for this guy, WHY DIDN'T THE SCOUTS PICK UP ON THIS? Those exact things, particularly the bad route-running, are some of the best predictors of pro success. Everytime I hear those excuses I cringe and say "Then why did we pick him?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'm not sure where this "bust" thing is coming from. I hear people saying that they were disappointed with his season, but I didn't hear anyone call him a "bust". Post three of this thread. And that's without even looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 It's not Hardy's fault that he was not thrown to. I remember numerous games where Chris Brown reported that Hardy was open downfield and not thrown to. He was also NOT used a Red Zone target at all. This is what infuriates me more than ever. We needed a big red zone threat, so we drafted one. Our OC and head coach, NEVER used him. The one play they did, he pulled down a huge catch against the Jags. I understand that it takes time for a WR to develop. There is no excuse AT ALL for not throwing a jump ball or fade route in the end zone. It takes barely any practice at all, and doesn't require crisp route running. He was under utilized all year, and I think if they did use him more he would have had at least 2-3 more TD's Bingo. Plus when he was thrown to, it was underthrown. There is a learning curve with QB's and big receivers. He's 6'7", not 5'7", so Trent/JP/Jabran need to put the ball UP so James could go det it...I watched this very closely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commish95 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Bingo. Plus when he was thrown to, it was underthrown. There is a learning curve with QB's and big receivers. He's 6'7", not 5'7", so Trent/JP/Jabran need to put the ball UP so James could go det it...I watched this very closely! Even Warner stated it was tough learning to throw the ball to Fitzgerald. It took a while to adjust to his size and have complete confidence that he would come down with the ball even in double coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 We needed a big red zone threat, so we drafted one. Our OC and head coach, NEVER used him. The one play they did, he pulled down a huge catch against the Jags. Is it the OC and HC that didn't throw to Hardy, or was it the QB that didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Is it the OC and HC that didn't throw to Hardy, or was it the QB that didn't? How dare you imply that it's possible other problems may exist on this team other than coaching. Don't you know that most coachs would have had this team playing in the playoffs? It's obvious that Jauron and Turk simply brushed aside his redzone talent and said no thanks. Maybe they drafted him as a career decoy. At the same time I'm starting to wonder if anything past ten yards downfield was a coaching staff decoy. They need to tell Trent to at least look downfield to give it any hope of working though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WannabeGM Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Bingo. Plus when he was thrown to, it was underthrown. There is a learning curve with QB's and big receivers. He's 6'7", not 5'7", so Trent/JP/Jabran need to put the ball UP so James could go det it...I watched this very closely! I absolutely agree with this. JP was the only one able to throw over the heads of the under 6ft receivers, TE just needs time with Hardy to get there. The problem is, Hardy being so tall, and everyone else being so short, TE has to adjust based on who he throws to. Life with under 6 ft receivers still hurts us in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 James Hardy isn't a bust as of yet, by definition. However, if you are happy with his performance so far and still have unblemished hope, then you are in denial. You need to look at it like a stock. James Hardy getting picked in the 2nd round as a WR gives him a value of say....$10 DeSean Jackson drafted in the same general area can be given a starting value of $10 In comparison....say the best WR's in the league (Fitzgerald, Owens, Wayne, etc.) are all in the $40-$50 range and good starters like a Lee Evans and Hines Ward are in the $25-$35 range. The question you have to ask yourself is...what is James Hardy worth today relative to his drafted value and relative to other WRs in the league? Sure, he still has time to develop...and that can be factored into his value. You have to do the same for every other player. If James Hardy was worth $10 on draft day, I'd price him at $4-6 off of his performance this year....and after the injury, he is worth less than $5 in my opinion. Buy at $3, sell at $5. In contrast, DeSean Jackson in one season has turned into a solid starting receiver and special teams threat. While he might not be as good as a Lee Evans today, his performance along with promise puts him in that $20-$30 range right now. Now....the reason everyone has their panties in a knot about Stevie Johnson is because he was a good value for the Bills. He isn't ready to start...he might not even be a top 3 receiver, but he showed a drive for the ball, has size, and because he was drafted in the 7th round....he went up in value. A guy like Johnson coming in in the 7th is probably worth $1-$3 on draft day. If he went back in the draft today, he wouldn't be a 2nd rounder....but he would be higher than a 7th in all probability. Right now I'd say he's worth $4-$7 range. Johnson played himself up and Hardy down to about the same level. Hardy's "potential" is the only thing keeping him from being an outright lesser player than Johnson at this point...but in a year or two, there is no longer any value given for potential. People saying that Hardy still has time to develop are correct, yet don't assume he is going to become Eric Moulds or anyone at that level. At this point in time, Stevie Johnson has just as good of a chance, and the two of them combined aren't worth what Josh Reed is. Sorry for the long post, but all too many people don't really grasp the difference between value and bargain. Hardy and Johnson are about the same value, but right now Johnson was a bargain. Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I absolutely agree with this. JP was the only one able to throw over the heads of the under 6ft receivers, TE just needs time with Hardy to get there. The problem is, Hardy being so tall, and everyone else being so short, TE has to adjust based on who he throws to. Life with under 6 ft receivers still hurts us in the long run. Yeah, like it's been killing the Colts for the last ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yeah, like it's been killing the Colts for the last ten years. When you have had 2-3 WR's that could start on several other teams lined up with Peyton Manning slang'n the pigskin...Oh, and a viable down field threat in a TE...Oh and a great OL...oh, and a better than average RB....oh, and a great OC....oh, and a great HC...........ya don't need WR's taller than 6', now do ya? Think b4 you speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Agreed. I'll refrain from calling him a bust, but he showed me nothing. At 53, I can position my body better to make a catch vs. tight coverage than he showed. He seems to have no clue.. He did show me as much character as Holmes. Which isn't a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 It is too ealry to declare Hardy a bust, but it has been long enough to be concerned. Chances are due to his injury he will contribute little next season. So the question arises, how long do the bills wait until they draft or sign another wr. There have been a lot of wrs blossom late, Eric Moulds is a great example of this. Many wrs that are bad initially, are bad throughout their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 For those calling Hardy a bust......he had the same amount of TD catches as Santonio Holmes did his rookie year. Steeler fans were calling him a bust as well. Give it time people...I hope Hardy ends up as much of a bust as Holmes.Give James some time people. The guy can play and has a very good attitude. I for one refuse to label him a bust, he was a raw rookie who got injuried. I never expected him to put any type of numbers. Give him two year and two off seasons, though this one will be rough rehabbing the knee, to learn how to be a professional football player and an NFL wide receiver. With hard work, he has the size and skills to be a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIE HARD 1967 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The impatience of some fans is an issue on every Bills board. Seems everyone whats to somehow rush the process. Well guess what, you can't Stop looking for the fast lane at Wallmart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I hope you are right. We all want Hardy to succeed. He had some flashes this year, Jax game winner was a super play, beginning of AZ game was nice too. I am more concerned with the QB to be honest. Warner and Rothlesberger appear to manage the game on a different level than we see in our check down passing offense. Rothelisberger also had a check-down offense for his 1st two seasons on the way to his 1st super bowl. The difference was that the Steelers had a kick-ass defense and a kick-ass Defensive Coordinator... THe steelers protected Big Ben and nurtured him through those tough times...What made easy for the transition was that the Steelers won going 15-1 in Ben's rookie season whereas we have put multiple games on Edwards or Losmans shoulders. I believe Tom Brady had a "check-down" rookie season too...Once again with a team that had a good defense and great STs, they needed their QB to protect the ball, something that Drew Bledsoe failed to do and something that Brady did well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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