thebandit27 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 What would the Patriots or Steelers do? Would they cave to the player or would they make the player live up to their contract or trade them? The Patriots have let plenty of players go through the years and still been successful. The last few years the Steelers had a situation with one of the best guards in football, Alan Faneca. This year they are in the Super Bowl. The bottom line is teams are always talking and if the right offer is made then go for it. If not stick to your guns and make the player perform under their current contract. If someone make the right offer don't worry about trading "your best player". The Patriots traded "their best WR" and got two #1 draft picks for Dion Branch. The Cowboys rebuilt a franchise because they traded Herschel Walker and made some good moves on draft day. Hell we gave Jacksonville two #1 picks for Rob Johnson because the Jags were not afraid to trade what many in the NFL thought was going to be a very good qb. The Patriots or Steelers would sign their pro-bowl left tackle to a long-term deal. Pittsburgh did it once with Faneca, when he was 27 and headed to FA the first time. New England already did it with Light. And guess what, in both situations, the player didn't have to hold out. The team realized his value and acted quickly, just like the Bills did when they signed Peters to a deal worth $15M over 5 years. Now, that deal is way out-dated, and it leaves Peters with a decrease in base salary and no incentives in each of the last 2 years. This is likely the reason that Peters fired his previous agent. Also, there is no comparing the trade of a RB or WR with a LT. LT is widely considered one of the 3 most important positions in the game (along with QB and DE). Running backs are starting to become a dime a dozen, especially with the short careers that they have. I'd also like to note that the Patriots' trade of Branch, and the subsequent troubles in their passing game, is what prompted them to go out and add 3 high-profile receivers (Moss, Welker, Gaffney) the following off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Okay, lets say he didn't deserve to go to the pro bowl. Did he deserve to go last year? How many guys on our roster have deserved to go the pro bowl, ever? Hmmm? Who give a $@#$ if he shouldn't have been in the pro bowl, he is the best lineman on the team at the moment. We are not going to get better by losing our best players. All this whiny Barbie didn't get a date to the prom weeping over team chemistry and inmates and the asylum is soap opera BS. The guy can play. He is not under suspension, has never had a drug, legal or steroid problem. Clearly, you don't like the guy but I don't think that is really a good criteria upon which to judge his playing ability. Get rid of him and now we have yet another position on the team, a key position a that, we have to fill with a FA or draft pick just to stay as good as 7-9. funny how the only people complaining about how what a rotten team player he is are the fans, not the team. Analysis from someone who knows more about OL play than we do... After the 2006 season, Sports Illustrated 's Paul Zimmerman debated selecting Peters to his All-Pro team. "I was rooting for the Bills' Jason Peters, whom I would have loved to pick, but he isn't there yet. Very athletic, but not enough of a roughneck." After that season, the Bills gave him contract based on his level of play to that point, and a very good one at that. Then in 2007 he turns in a season which was considered to be a dominant performance and immediately wants to redo the deal he just got sayin now he is under paid. Then in 2008, he regresses back to something that resembles the 2006 version of him. So, what version of Jason Peters is the real gauge of what he is worth? His most recent body of work argues AGAINST the contract he wants. He has only had one season in his 5 year career that would command that kind of money and it wasnt even the most recent season. Walter Jones got a huge $50 million deal, but that was AFTER 5 dominant seasons... My personal opinnion...I am NOT convinced Peters is worth the 8 to 11 million dollars a year he wants and he definitely did not sniff that level of play in 2008. He played at about the level he is being paid in my opinnion. Everyone keeps saying how he is our best player because of ONE season in 2007...A player needs to demonstrate a consistent high level of play before you can confidently invest that kind of money and declare him our best player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzaloha Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 i meant not signing them to long term deals........sorry you do realize that he IS SIGNED TO A LONG TERM CONTRACT now, dont you????? Its not even remotely close to the Briere/Drury situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Analysis from someone who knows more about OL play than we do... After the 2006 season, Sports Illustrated 's Paul Zimmerman debated selecting Peters to his All-Pro team. "I was rooting for the Bills' Jason Peters, whom I would have loved to pick, but he isn't there yet. Very athletic, but not enough of a roughneck." After that season, the Bills gave him contract based on his level of play to that point, and a very good one at that. Then in 2007 he turns in a season which was considered to be a dominant performance and immediately wants to redo the deal he just got sayin now he is under paid. Then in 2008, he regresses back to something that resembles the 2006 version of him. So, what version of Jason Peters is the real gauge of what he is worth? His most recent body of work argues AGAINST the contract he wants. He has only had one season in his 5 year career that would command that kind of money and it wasnt even the most recent season. Walter Jones got a huge $50 million deal, but that was AFTER 5 dominant seasons... My personal opinnion...I am NOT convinced Peters is worth the 8 to 11 million dollars a year he wants and he definitely did not sniff that level of play in 2008. He played at about the level he is being paid in my opinnion. Everyone keeps saying how he is our best player because of ONE season in 2007...A player needs to demonstrate a consistent high level of play before you can confidently invest that kind of money and declare him our best player. The other side of the coin is that Jake Long got a huge $50M deal after zero snaps in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyphe23 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think this is completely different than Drury and Briere. Both of them were soon to be free agents, Jason Peters held out before entering the 3rd season that he had left in his contract. Not to mention the Bills took a chance on him twice, once as a undrafted free agent and then again when they gave him a rather large contract for only having one year of offensive lineman experience. There was a very interesting article on ESPN.com where they talked to Football Agents about the Peters holdout at the beginning of the year. They all said that Peters was in the wrong for trying to take advantage of a franchise that took a chance on him and developed him. Either way I think his poor play was effected by his selfish holdout last season and could have cost the Bills a couple of games. Possibly the playoffs. I bet he holds out again, and once again he will be a liability next season if we dont give him a new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The other side of the coin is that Jake Long got a huge $50M deal after zero snaps in the NFL. You cant adjust veteran contracts based on top 10 rookie contracts...by that logic, every QB in the league that is better than Jamarcus Russel should get a deal bigger than his...there would be about 30 QB's lining up for that monster payday, most of which stink... Just doesnt work that way...once a guy steps on the field he will be evaluated on his progression, performance, and potential to improve when he gets a contract...Rookies are paid only on potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 You cant adjust veteran contracts based on top 10 rookie contracts...by that logic, every QB in the league that is better than Jamarcus Russel should get a deal bigger than his...there would be about 30 QB's lining up for that monster payday, most of which stink... Just doesnt work that way...once a guy steps on the field he will be evaluated on his progression, performance, and potential to improve when he gets a contract...Rookies are paid only on potential. I understand your point, and I don't necessarily disagree with the premise. All I'm saying is that it's unreasonable to think that Peters isn't going to look at Long's deal and say to himself "I've done more in this league than this guy, shouldn't I get paid like it?" And with an agent that only gets paid if he negotiates a new deal, all Peters will hear is that he's justified in his thinking. I have to admit, if I were him, I might feel the same way. Then again, I'm not him, so I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 the correct usage is "then" instead of "than" mr. jacksonville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I understand your point, and I don't necessarily disagree with the premise. All I'm saying is that it's unreasonable to think that Peters isn't going to look at Long's deal and say to himself "I've done more in this league than this guy, shouldn't I get paid like it?" And with an agent that only gets paid if he negotiates a new deal, all Peters will hear is that he's justified in his thinking. I have to admit, if I were him, I might feel the same way. Then again, I'm not him, so I don't know. I understand where you are coming from. But if he tries to negotiate based on rookie contracts, he will get no where. Truth is, I dont think he is worth what he wants. Is he worth more than what he has now?...maybe, but his level of play in 2008, the most recent year, was not close to the caliber of play you would expect from someone with a contract as big as he wants. All in all, what has he accomplished? He has had just 1 year our of 5 years in the league worthy of a big contract and that is now followed up with a season where his play had a noticable drop off from that year. He has established himself as someone who has a questionable attitude and a me first mentality (his quote about pro bowl was priceless), and he took a very poor stance in negotiations at the expense of his teammates just one season after getting a nice raise and contract extension. So, my question is simple: What has he done that warrants the contract he wants and what assurances do we have that he can live up to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 So, my question is simple: What has he done that warrants the contract he wants and what assurances do we have that he can live up to it? So now let's go back to your thoughts in another thread ... as fans we are not exposed to the whole story and intangibles should be considered. I assume you have no argument when I say the guy has they physical tools to be an elite LT. There is general agreement that he played at this level for one season. So the Bills do have to take a bit of a chance and pay him elite money on these factors (if they want to retain him). The Bills coaching staff has to make the asessment about this past season .. did his play really drop off or are the stats an unfair reflection of other issues? This whole notion that Peters is a "malcontent" seems to come from the fact that he held out and from his coment about the probowl. Keep in mind the Bills organization had positive things to say about him as a person during the holdout. I personally believe that Peters is being unfairly painted as a "problem" because the Bills also had responsibility in the situation. When it was obvious that he was missing OTA's and then required camps why were the Bills not on the phone with his agent saying what is up? I've said before the Bills also tried to get off cheap with Peters by paying him as a RT when he stepped up and played LT (at an arguably high level). If I was in his shoes I would have been upset also. The Bills have too many other issues to worry about. They have cap space. They need to get the deal done and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latason Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 im seeing a lot of trade Peters posters and im getting kind of annoyed... First of all you dont trade your best o-linemen even if he is self centered. But second of all, this would make the bills franchise look really bad... If this happened this would be exactly like the drury briere situation... it says that when you start off avereage and player and work your way up to a probowler than basically we cant pay you... so then really who would want to play for the bills because when I get there and play hard and make the pro bowl they cant pay me.....cheap cheap ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latason Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 you're right on....where do the trademongers on the board expect to get an All-Pro tackle?!!....pay Peters what he's worth and stop this ridiculous bickering....we all want the Bills to recapture our glory days.....getting rid of Jason Peters will not expedite us getting there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 not if they would of traded vanek Yea, cuz it's not like he's having a better season than drury and briere combined or anything. Trust me, we'd all be more miserable right now if Vanek was one of the guys who got away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax bill backer Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 first of all are any of you guys pro scouts... it is obvious that the pro bowl people and the bills see something in Peters... Sign him to a big deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 first of all are any of you guys pro scouts... Would this be a rhetorical question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyphe23 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 first of all are any of you guys pro scouts... it is obvious that the pro bowl people and the bills see something in Peters... Sign him to a big deal Who exactly are these Pro Bowl people that you speak of? Its fan voting and most fans dont know how good an offensive lineman is unless 1) they were voted in last year (Peters) 2) they watch that team on a consistent basis, and pay attention to who is blocking well, and know a lot about football in able to understand the difference between a good lineman and a bad one. I'm going to lean towards the fact that people had heard his name before, because based on what I saw this year with the false start and holding penalties, and basically being a rotating door to any good DE, he is not a Pro Bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Who exactly are these Pro Bowl people that you speak of? Its fan voting and most fans dont know how good an offensive lineman is unless 1) they were voted in last year (Peters) 2) they watch that team on a consistent basis, and pay attention to who is blocking well, and know a lot about football in able to understand the difference between a good lineman and a bad one. I'm going to lean towards the fact that people had heard his name before, because based on what I saw this year with the false start and holding penalties, and basically being a rotating door to any good DE, he is not a Pro Bowler. Fan Voting only counts a third - players and coaches get the other portion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstngoal Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Our franchise already looks bad..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Fan Voting only counts a third - players and coaches get the other portion i used to think that it was all of the defensive players in the league who voted Ruben Brown in every year, just so they could keep him in the starting lineup and have an easy day against him. im starting to feel the same way about Peters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Fan Voting only counts a third - players and coaches get the other portion .....and when you consider that there would obviously be a large donkey vote percentage for the fan votes(voting for 'the guy on your team')......this would drastically reduce the fan vote strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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