John Adams Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I think you're an idiot. (Duh. His username has Flutie in it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I spent over 25 years in the car business. I can say with complete authority. You're a complete moron. The credit gravy train is over with isn't it. I never bought a new car because I could never afford it. I bought a car from a car dealer once in my life. Never did it again. Who can afford it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I think you're an idiot. The auto industry has always been a cyclical industry. You just said that the biggest company in that cyclical industry didn't understand they're in a cyclical industry. Earlier I was just busting your balls for making presumptions about posters. Now I think you're an idiot for not even being able to make a coherent argument. I forgot where I made the argument that the auto business is cyclical. Show me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I forgot where I made the argument that the auto business is cyclical. Show me. Did you forget your reading glasses today or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Did you forget your reading glasses today or something? Where did I use the word cyclical. Define the word cyclical please! Opps I sound like a Bill Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I spent over 25 years in the car business. I can say with complete authority. You're a complete moron. OK Einstein. Question for you. If GM goes bankrupt what's going to happen to the price of a used car? I know the answer. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Did you forget your reading glasses today or something? I found it. I was talking about Chrysler but it's the same thing. I went to Barnes and Noble today and Fortune had an article bashing GM. One of the many problems written about was how they couldn't afford production shutdowns and they had several with UAW strikes throughout the years. So yes, they were not prepared to handle the downturns. But this downturn is so steep, no one would have known. Only the most pessimistic bumb could have called it. The article touched too much on GMs culture. An outsider looking in but not really knowing what's wrong. It did touch on GMs flawed products a little bit, but nothing on quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I found it. I was talking about Chrysler but it's the same thing. That's twice you've admitted you're wrong in this thread. See a trend? So yes, they were not prepared to handle the downturns. But this downturn is so steep, no one would have known. Only the most pessimistic bumb could have called it. The automakers would not predict this downturn; I'll give you that. But the reason GM and Chrysler are suffering is that they were sucking BEFORE the downturn. Toyota and Honda can weather a downturn better because they have more cash. Why? Those small high quality cars (you know...the ones with lesser performance) made them a ton of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Yes, I was saying Toyota just makes small cars. I actually meant to type that, but I hit the "Holy Christ, you're a !@#$ing moron" key by mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 That's twice you've admitted you're wrong in this thread. See a trend? The automakers would not predict this downturn; I'll give you that. But the reason GM and Chrysler are suffering is that they were sucking BEFORE the downturn. Toyota and Honda can weather a downturn better because they have more cash. Why? Those small high quality cars (you know...the ones with lesser performance) made them a ton of money. I guess you missed the Honda Pilot and the new pickup truck they came up with. The Honda Ridgeline. They also came up with a van. You don't want to consider why Honda made a pickup do you? I'd love to buy that truck. I love it. Honda's are my favorite car. They are far from flawless. I had two Accords. The first one was great. The second one was a lemon. But I'd still buy a Honda. The quality is great. I just don't like Toyota. Never did. My sister bought one in 88. Nothing but junk. But I know why people love them. They do make great car, I just don't like them. I'd buy a Tahoe. And I'd buy a Chevy Silverado. I wouldn't buy much else from GM. I'd buy an F-150. But no other Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 That's twice you've admitted you're wrong in this thread. See a trend? The automakers would not predict this downturn; I'll give you that. But the reason GM and Chrysler are suffering is that they were sucking BEFORE the downturn. Toyota and Honda can weather a downturn better because they have more cash. Why? Those small high quality cars (you know...the ones with lesser performance) made them a ton of money. P.S. I haven't admitted I was wrong. But I can see were someone could infer that I was implying that the auto business is cyclical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...46_FORTUNE5.htm Treasury Sued By FOX Business Network Over Rescue Plan Info December 18, 2008: 03:48 PM ET WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- FOX Business Network said Thursday it has filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Treasury Department for being slow to provide information on the $700 billion financial rescue plan. The television network, a unit of News Corp. (NWSA), said in a release that Treasury has not responded to two Freedom of Information Act requests, one on Nov. 25 and one on Dec. 1, regarding the use of funds for Citigroup Inc. ©, American International Group Inc. (AIG) and Bank of New York Mellon. The request sought data on the specific restrictions placed on the firms and the collateral extended as part of their acceptance of federal funds, among other things. A lawyer for the network said that "it has become apparent that the Treasury will not cooperate without mounting legal pressure." The complaint was filed in federal court in New York. A Treasury spokeswoman was not immediately available for comment. Federal policymakers have come under increasing pressure to provide more information about their efforts to stabilize the financial system and deal with the stumbling economy. A Government Accountability Office report released earlier this month criticized Treasury for not addressing a number of issues surrounding the implementation of the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. Dow Jones is owned by News Corp. (NWS). In addition to this and other newswires, Dow Jones publishes The Wall Street Journal and its international and online editions, Barron's, the Far Eastern Economic Review, MarketWatch, Dow Jones Indexes and the Ottaway group of community newspapers. Dow Jones owns Factiva and co-owns SmartMoney with Hearst Corp. It also provides news content to CNBC television operations worldwide and to radio stations in the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 P.S. I haven't admitted I was wrong. But I can see were someone could infer that I was implying that the auto business is cyclical. You weren't? It's not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 You weren't? It's not? No I wasn't. I got confused there for awhile. All businesses can run in a cycle. That doesn't mean it is a cycle. Is 20 years a cycle? If run right, an auto manufacturer can keep producing year round. But I would say that auto sales are seasonal which conflicts with the maker of the autos. PS. Check out my post about Toyota. I does indeed prove my point that the auto makers could not have been prepared for this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 PS. Check out my post about Toyota. I does indeed prove my point that the auto makers could not have been prepared for this crap. Really? It's their first loss in 70 years and that proves your point? No. The point is that Toyota has massive cash reserves and is in a position to weather this storm. The American carmakers could be in the situation too (Ford is not in too bad shape) if they had been run better. They weren't. Just because there's an unpredictible downturn doesn't mean they should get a lifeline. I work with companies that innovate and seek patents. Companies probably won't patent as much during this unpredicted downturn...should I get a bailout too? Sheer idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Really? It's their first loss in 70 years and that proves your point? No. The point is that Toyota has massive cash reserves and is in a position to weather this storm. The American carmakers could be in the situation too (Ford is not in too bad shape) if they had been run better. They weren't. Just because there's an unpredictible downturn doesn't mean they should get a lifeline. I work with companies that innovate and seek patents. Companies probably won't patent as much during this unpredicted downturn...should I get a bailout too? Sheer idiocy. It sounds to me like Toyota is asking for gov't help. They'll probably slash 50% of their production. I guess if you want to believe that Toyota has massive cash reserves you can. But they did increase capacity by tons, so it's hard to say they still have massive cash reserves. It's not like I like the situation. And you do present the right arguement. But, I don't want to stand in a soup line. But, that will probably happen anyway. And you are right, not everyone can ask for a bailout. Who gets it and who doesn't? I don't know the answer. So far, it's been bailouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 It sounds to me like Toyota is asking for gov't help.... I guess if you want to believe that Toyota has massive cash reserves you can. But they did increase capacity by tons, so it's hard to say they still have massive cash reserves. I don't make those claims on faith: Toyota has 19 billion dollars in cash. More importantly (and unlike its American competitors), it has virtually zero debt. It is in a much better position to weather the storm of 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I don't make those claims on faith: Toyota has 19 billion dollars in cash. More importantly (and unlike its American competitors), it has virtually zero debt. It is in a much better position to weather the storm of 2009. What I'm saying is that they could be lying to you. Like false financial statements. Don't put it past them. I believe you when you say Toyota has no debt. But their customer (the American public) is in the toilet, so how long can those cash reserves stand up? They'll stand up longer than the Big 3, but how much longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 What I'm saying is that they could be lying to you. Like false financial statements. Don't put it past them. I believe you when you say Toyota has no debt. But their customer (the American public) is in the toilet, so how long can those cash reserves stand up? They'll stand up longer than the Big 3, but how much longer? If they have no debt, chances are, they could survive pretty long since they don't have to worry about defaulting on their debt like certain other firms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 If they have no debt, chances are, they could survive pretty long since they don't have to worry about defaulting on their debt like certain other firms. I was thinking they might "pull a chrysler" and ask for bailout money, even though they have cash sitting around. They could say they don't want to throw good money after bad. In other words, refuse to put cash into the operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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