Toast Whitner

[Dawgg]

Who is to say Nagata may not have failed here just like McCargo.

 

You just lost all credibility with that comparison.

[The Dean]

You just lost all credibility with that comparison.

 

 

Why? A player, put in a different situation, in a different scheme, with different players surrounding him and different coaches asking him to do different things, and to do the same things differently, might have a different level of success. That is so basic, it's hard to believe you question it.

[dave mcbride]

I was constantly ridiculed for criticizing the Whitner pick.

 

3 years later... look where we are today.

Why do you gloat? What's the point?

[Canadian,eh!]

Well, whoever said Whitner just had his first bad game is insane. He's sucked for a long time.

 

the 06 draft killed us.

 

We took:

 

Whitner (and his major bust label)

Passing on Ngata, Cutler and Ernie Sims.

 

the we TRADE BACK UP for a guy projected to go 3 rounds later and took McCargo:

Passing on Mangold and Mathias Kiwanuka.

 

ouch.

[Dawgg]

Why? A player, put in a different situation, in a different scheme, with different players surrounding him and different coaches asking him to do different things, and to do the same things differently, might have a different level of success. That is so basic, it's hard to believe you question it.

 

Look Dean, I don't disagree with that statement. Perhaps Ngata would not have enjoyed the same level of success if he were drafted by Buffalo, given that (a) the scheme is different and (b) Buffalo coaches are somewhat inept.

 

Having said that, it's hard to ignore the basic fact: Ngata is a superior player. McCargo played on a line with Manny Lawson and Mario Williams. Most teams had a second round grade on him. This was all apparent in 2006, when Marv bungled the first round of the draft. Most Bills fans just refused to see it.

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/colle...s30trotter.html

 

At the other end of the spectrum were the Buffalo Bills, who left little doubt as to why they've had only one winning season and no playoff appearances since 1999. Their decision-making was as painful as the expression on Matt Leinart's face when the Titans and Jets passed on him early in the first round and then five more clubs followed suit before the Cardinals ended his slide.

Buffalo liked Ohio State safety Donte Whitner, which was fine. He's considered a good player. The problem in this case was that the Bills took him eighth overall when almost no one had him projected to go higher than the middle or the bottom of the first round. Worse, the Bills easily could have traded down and still gotten their man – plus extra picks and a savings on the contract Whitner will sign.

 

In a word, the Bills panicked. In the eighth spot, they were positioned between the Oakland Raiders and the Detroit Lions. When the Raiders took safety Michael Huff, the Bills feared that the Lions would take Whitner at No. 9 if they passed on him. So instead of taking Bunkley, who would have filled their biggest need, they went for Whitner seven spots higher than anyone projected him to go.

 

Worse, they then traded into the bottom part of the first round to get defensive tackle John McCargo at No. 26, contending that there was a significant dropoff at the position after McCargo and the Giants were going to take him at 32.

 

They were wrong. New York was not going to take McCargo. The Giants wanted someone they could groom as Michael Strahan's replacement.

 

What the Bills should have done is taken Bunkley at No. 8 and then dealt up to get a defensive back if they feared a run on the position was taking place. McCargo simply isn't close to being in Bunkley's class, and the separation between Whitner and some other defensive backs who would've been available wasn't nearly as wide.

 

The Bills received calls from Philadelphia, Denver and Minnesota about trading up to the eighth spot. Those teams had the 14th, 15th and 17th picks, respectively, and were willing to surrender picks/players to move higher.

 

If the Bills had simply understood the lay of the land, they would've realized that Detroit never had any intention of taking Whitner. Their sights were firmly on linebacker Ernie Sims, whom new coach Rod Marinelli hopes will provide a similar impact that Derrick Brooks did for Tampa Bay when Marinelli was with the Bucs.

 

Bottom line: The draft is not just about evaluating personnel; it's also about understanding other clubs' hopes and wishes. Philadelphia clearly had a handle on it, Buffalo did not.

[Dawgg]

Why do you gloat? What's the point?

 

I'm not gloating. I'm a frustrated fan who is sick and tired of watching the front office mismanage the team. I would love to have been wrong about the Whitner pick but unfortunately, I am not.

[bills_red]

How horrid is that...he looks like Jim Leontard out there...."Marv Marv....get that Haloti Ngata kid...pick him, pick him"

 

Player A:

1 Sack

2 INT

 

Player B:

5 Sacks

3 INT

 

 

 

Player A: Whitner

 

Player B: Ngata

 

 

HAHAHA, A NT HAS MORE PICKS THAN A S, HAHAHAHA

[The Dean]

Look Dean, I don't disagree with that statement. Perhaps Ngata would not have enjoyed the same level of success if he were drafted by Buffalo, given that (a) the scheme is different and (b) Buffalo coaches are somewhat inept.

 

Having said that, it's hard to ignore the basic fact: Ngata is a superior player. McCargo played on a line with Manny Lawson and Mario Williams. Most teams had a second round grade on him. This was all apparent in 2006, when Marv bungled the first round of the draft. Most Bills fans just refused to see it.

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/colle...s30trotter.html

 

 

I'm not sure I would cite a source that concludes:

 

What the Bills should have done is taken Bunkley at No. 8

[NFLBighits]

You Cant put it All On Whitner, with this Weak ass Pass Rush, And R Down out right AWFUL Scouting Department Starting at the TOP ! This Team Has when to HELL Since BILL Pollian LEFT !

[JPicc2114]

How horrid is that...he looks like Jim Leontard out there...."Marv Marv....get that Haloti Ngata kid...pick him, pick him"

 

 

 

This is about the dumbest comment ever made.. Ngata is a 3-4 Defensive End.. and last time I checked, we run a 4-3.

[Dawgg]

I'm not sure I would cite a source that concludes:

 

Even Bunkley would have been a far better pick than Whitner at #8. Irrespective of the author's conclusion, the reasoning behind the article was very sound.

[The Dean]

Even Bunkley would have been a far better pick than Whitner at #8. Irrespective of the author's conclusion, the reasoning behind the article was very sound.

 

 

Now who is making ridiculous statements?

[Bufcomments]

my 2 cents....

 

Brain Scott has made more plays than Whitner at the SS spot. That alone makes Whitner look bad

Now they are trying him at FS to see if he can make a play.

If he is a bad cover guy why put him at the Safety position in coverage ???

 

He maybe a leader OFF the field but hes got to make more plays on it.

 

also i remember the Bills scouts saying that Ngata would have been a fit in either a 3-4 or 4-3 defense

also if they would have drafted DT first in that draft they would not had to move back up in the first and grab a bust in McCargo.

[Blastfromthepast]

Look Dean, I don't disagree with that statement. Perhaps Ngata would not have enjoyed the same level of success if he were drafted by Buffalo, given that (a) the scheme is different and (b) Buffalo coaches are somewhat inept.

 

Having said that, it's hard to ignore the basic fact: Ngata is a superior player. McCargo played on a line with Manny Lawson and Mario Williams. Most teams had a second round grade on him. This was all apparent in 2006, when Marv bungled the first round of the draft. Most Bills fans just refused to see it.

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/colle...s30trotter.html

 

 

Read this part and i think it sums it al up

[dave mcbride]

I'm not gloating. I'm a frustrated fan who is sick and tired of watching the front office mismanage the team. I would love to have been wrong about the Whitner pick but unfortunately, I am not.

Then I suggest refraining from talking about it. Everyone who is a good poster here knows how you felt in April 2006; dredging it up constantly is tedious. You're a good poster -- come up with new stuff.

[billsfreak]

Yeah really, I can't believe he couldn't hang with an NFL wideout for the entire 15 minutes Farve had back there each play. There is no DB in the NFL that can hang with Coles or any other wideout when the other teams QB didn't face pressure a single play all day. Whitner is the least of our problems. How do u slam Levy and his drafts, look at his compared to the class of 2008. If it wasn't for 4 or 5 good games by McKelvin, this years class would be a total bust so far.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

He is what he is, mediocre at best. Now his mouth on the other hand is that of a Pro Bowl Wide Receiver. Seriously though, Ko Simpson is the disaster of the two. I have never seen a Safety take terrible angles game after game and cost us huge plays.

Ko is slow as hell. His reads are just as slow as his feet. I would say Witner is dinged ,but being healthy he still is not a top flight safety. He`s above average.

[ganesh]

Why? A player, put in a different situation, in a different scheme, with different players surrounding him and different coaches asking him to do different things, and to do the same things differently, might have a different level of success. That is so basic, it's hard to believe you question it.

 

Thanks for pulling up....Agreed completely....Ngata is surrounded by pretty top talent on the front 7 plus the secondary....He may have been pretty average if he was playing on the Bills line...Remember Pat Williams struggled the year the Bills cut ties with Ted Washington and when they switched to 4-3.

[StupidNation]

Ko is slow as hell. His reads are just as slow as his feet. I would say Witner is dinged ,but being healthy he still is not a top flight safety. He`s above average.

 

I would say he's well above average against the run, but well below average in pass coverage. That makes him an overall liability as he is not a LB. Safeties should have at least 2 INTs and 6-8 PDs a year. If not they suck.

 

As one poster pointed out, Scott makes more plays that stop the opposing O. That's scary.

[TheChimp]

Although I'm just gerenally ticked off that Whitner guaranteed the playoffs and we are stinking up the joint at 6-8 right now, I am certainly not stupid enough to blame a guy in the secondary for the fact that he was playing with NO PASS RUSH whatsoever. I don't care who you are, you ain't staying with your receiver for 10 seconds, when the QB has time to set up the perfect pass to him. Dumb thread.