BuffaloBill Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 In some ways the numbers are astounding. Roughly 119 QB's play each year let's just say in round numbers that one-fourth of them are NFL draft eligible in any given year (probably a bit higher) so 26 or 27 are available to the NFL each year. Of this total history suggests that 1 or 2 achieve some level of meaningful success in the NFL. (BTW I understand that other schools (outside of Div I-A) may add to the talent pool but then the numbers are skewed even further towards supporting the point of this post) I believe these numbers beg the question .... do NFL offensive systems put too much emphasis on the position? I am not sure how it gets done but I wonder if the NFL would be better off to skinny down the playbooks some. The stats also point to the fact that good NFL teams shut down the run and basically say "let's see if your average at best QB can beat us through the air." Are rule changes in order? Maybe a limit to the total number of pass rushers. Maybe a limit of 6 or seven "in the box" to open up running lanes is in order. As Bills fans we are painfully aware of how the dearth of NFL capable QB's kills a team. We have been searching for over a decade to find one. When and if you do find one then your franchise can expect to be competitive for as long as he remains healthy. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 its 120 now. western kentucky moved up this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 14, 2008 Author Share Posted December 14, 2008 its 120 now. western kentucky moved up this year I stand corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Because of all the various systems used in college that won't work in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 14, 2008 Author Share Posted December 14, 2008 Because of all the various systems used in college that won't work in the NFL Then why can't or doesn't the NFL figure out a way to transition more of these guys effectively? Special QB camps perhaps? It sucks to think that your team is in the crapper for a decade because it is so hard to get NFL capable QB's. As I said earlier maybe rules changes are in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Then why can't or doesn't the NFL figure out a way to transition more of these guys effectively? Special QB camps perhaps? It sucks to think that your team is in the crapper for a decade because it is so hard to get NFL capable QB's. As I said earlier maybe rules changes are in order. That has nothing to do with why the Bills are in the crapper....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 14, 2008 Author Share Posted December 14, 2008 That has nothing to do with why the Bills are in the crapper....... Really??? the fact that they have not had a good QB in a decade has nothing to do with the situation? Tell me that having someone like Collins on the roster (as the Titans do) would not have helped to swing things more favorably. We could have easily pulled out the Cleveland game if we would have had a decent #2 to go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbird78 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 In the NFL if you don't have the prototype height/arm you won't even get an opportunity. They are already talking about Heisman winner Tim Tebow as a Tight End in the NFL. It's the toughest position in the NFL to predict so GM's figure we'll just go by the combine and what the experts say and make a pick that won't make them look stupid in the eyes of the public, because hey this is what everybody thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 14, 2008 Author Share Posted December 14, 2008 In the NFL if you don't have the prototype height/arm you won't even get an opportunity. They are already talking about Heisman winner Tim Tebow as a Tight End in the NFL. It's the toughest position in the NFL to predict so GM's figure we'll just go by the combine and what the experts say and make a pick that won't make them look stupid in the eyes of the public, because hey this is what everybody thought. Tebow is a great example because he plays a style that is anything but NFL. I know it is not the colleges' responsibility to prep guys for the NFL per se but this is why the NFL needs to figure something out. Part of the problem is that the guys most likely to make it in the NFL go to the teams that are least likely to give them a realistic shot at developing. They go to the teams where they have poor players around them and then are expected to survive. This is why I am suggesting that opening up the running game by limiting players in the box would allow weaker teams the chance to develop their QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Tebow is a great example because he plays a style that is anything but NFL. I know it is not the colleges' responsibility to prep guys for the NFL per se but this is why the NFL needs to figure something out. Part of the problem is that the guys most likely to make it in the NFL go to the teams that are least likely to give them a realistic shot at developing. They go to the teams where they have poor players around them and then are expected to survive. This is why I am suggesting that opening up the running game by limiting players in the box would allow weaker teams the chance to develop their QB's. Who should limit players in the box? The NFL or NCAA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Really??? the fact that they have not had a good QB in a decade has nothing to do with the situation? Tell me that having someone like Collins on the roster (as the Titans do) would not have helped to swing things more favorably. We could have easily pulled out the Cleveland game if we would have had a decent #2 to go to. Yes..Really??? No QB has been all that good because our line hasn't been able to protect them. Offense starts with the big 5, not with the guy under center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 14, 2008 Author Share Posted December 14, 2008 Yes..Really??? No QB has been all that good because our line hasn't been able to protect them. Offense starts with the big 5, not with the guy under center Our line improved in pass protection last year and they have played respectably this year. Not to mention not one QB that has played for the Bills in the past ten years has gone on to play well anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Our line improved in pass protection last year and they have played respectably this year. Not to mention not one QB that has played for the Bills in the past ten years has gone on to play well anywhere else. Bledsoe played better in Dallas than he did in Buffalo as did Todd Collins in helping take the Redskins to the playoffs last year. Our line has improved from abomitable to just plain stinks. Other teams control the line of scrimmage against us. But why not....lets draft three more QB's....one for each third of next season More sarcasm that you deserved, but I'm in one of those moods........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 14, 2008 Author Share Posted December 14, 2008 Bledsoe played better in Dallas than he did in Buffalo as did Todd Collins in helping take the Redskins to the playoffs last year. Our line has improved from abomitable to just plain stinks. Other teams control the line of scrimmage against us. But why not....lets draft three more QB's....one for each third of next season More sarcasm that you deserved, but I'm in one of those moods........ Sarcasm is welcome Bledsoe did little in Dallas. I am not in agreement that the line play is so bad. I agree it can improve. Lynch is seventh in the AFC in rushing and would be better if he played on a team that had 4th quarter leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampede Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 i think the problem has more to do with the actual transition into the nfl. i believe poor coaching, poor coordinating and the rush to activate young qbs is the problem. qb coaches (or the lack of), offensive coordinators (more eager to be lauded as "geniuses") and owners share the biggest portion of the blame. if you consider the fact that college qbs are there because they at least have the talent and mentality for the position, should still have that talent and mentality if they chose to enter the nfl. if they are wise enough to play for a school that incorporates a pro set then they are that much more ahead of the curve. i honestly feel the majority of qbs that fail at the pro level do so primarily because of a lack of proper coaching. all nfl teams should incorporate a qb coach, but they don't. Tiger Woods (i know its not football but the same applies) is accepted as being the best golfer of our generation (possibly of all time) and he has a personal coach, it just makes sense in my mind. i STILL believe if JP had proper coaching, a stable offensive scheme and a staff that would have stuck with him (example: Eli Manning), we wouldn't have the problem that we are now faced with. and it appears as though Trent MAY be heading down the same path; poor coaching and failing to put the player in a position to display his strength within the system. in other words don't ask the qb to do things that DOES NOT take advantage of his NATURAL ability and strength. just my opinion, i could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Your suggestion is based on a grossly misinterpreted philosophy. We might not have a quarterback that will stand out to the media, win fantasy football leagues, or more importantly lead us to the playoffs without surrounding talent. Regardless of this fact, it is severely naive of you to actually sit through this Buffalo Bills football season and decide that the reason we are not making the playoffs is our lack of quarterback talent. We lost the Cleveland Browns game mostly to poor quarterbacking. Even still, we had a chance to win it. This is the first time that I've agreed with our city's ruthless attack on a coaching staff. The running game has been ineffective because of the coaches. Our defense plays well, but not well enough on 3rd downs, because of our coaches. I could go on a little, but the point of my response is that if you think changing the rules to benefit the Bills and perpetuate your theory will help the Bills by giving us an edge, then you might be overlooking some of our larger problems. I for one, think that the rules don't need to be changed (pertaining specifically to our inability to judge quarterback talent). I would prefer just getting better people to judge talent, and more importantly better people at executing that talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavarreFL_Bills_Fan Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 makes sense that so few college QB's are successful in the nfl. Only about .2% of college eligible players actually make it to the NFL. .2%...... That is only 2 out of every 1000 players. The succes rate is very low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 14, 2008 Author Share Posted December 14, 2008 Your suggestion is based on a grossly misinterpreted philosophy. We might not have a quarterback that will stand out to the media, win fantasy football leagues, or more importantly lead us to the playoffs without surrounding talent. Regardless of this fact, it is severely naive of you to actually sit through this Buffalo Bills football season and decide that the reason we are not making the playoffs is our lack of quarterback talent. We lost the Cleveland Browns game mostly to poor quarterbacking. Even still, we had a chance to win it. This is the first time that I've agreed with our city's ruthless attack on a coaching staff. The running game has been ineffective because of the coaches. Our defense plays well, but not well enough on 3rd downs, because of our coaches. I could go on a little, but the point of my response is that if you think changing the rules to benefit the Bills and perpetuate your theory will help the Bills by giving us an edge, then you might be overlooking some of our larger problems. I for one, think that the rules don't need to be changed (pertaining specifically to our inability to judge quarterback talent). I would prefer just getting better people to judge talent, and more importantly better people at executing that talent. I never once said that the reason for us not making the playoff was lack of QB talent. It is one of the reasons. The post points more towards the frustration of the past nine years where we have not had QB talent and frankly neither have most of the teams in the league. The idea for a rules change is to allow teams and QB talent in the league the opportunity to develop such that only the 5 or 6 teams lucky enough to have a decent QB have a realistic shot at doing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 In some ways the numbers are astounding. Roughly 119 QB's play each year let's just say in round numbers that one-fourth of them are NFL draft eligible in any given year (probably a bit higher) so 26 or 27 are available to the NFL each year. Of this total history suggests that 1 or 2 achieve some level of meaningful success in the NFL. (BTW I understand that other schools (outside of Div I-A) may add to the talent pool but then the numbers are skewed even further towards supporting the point of this post) I believe these numbers beg the question .... do NFL offensive systems put too much emphasis on the position? I am not sure how it gets done but I wonder if the NFL would be better off to skinny down the playbooks some. The stats also point to the fact that good NFL teams shut down the run and basically say "let's see if your average at best QB can beat us through the air." Are rule changes in order? Maybe a limit to the total number of pass rushers. Maybe a limit of 6 or seven "in the box" to open up running lanes is in order. As Bills fans we are painfully aware of how the dearth of NFL capable QB's kills a team. We have been searching for over a decade to find one. When and if you do find one then your franchise can expect to be competitive for as long as he remains healthy. What do you think? I agree with you completely. I think that the scouting system for QBs is way off. They are out there but if they dont fit the cookie cutter things nfl teams are looking for then they slip through the cracks. -Some of these QBs in the NFL now are just pathetic.Its so strange.They can't even make simple decisions. Its ruining the league.Quality is way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 i think the problem has more to do with the actual transition into the nfl. i believe poor coaching, poor coordinating and the rush to activate young qbs is the problem. qb coaches (or the lack of), offensive coordinators (more eager to be lauded as "geniuses") and owners share the biggest portion of the blame. if you consider the fact that college qbs are there because they at least have the talent and mentality for the position, should still have that talent and mentality if they chose to enter the nfl. if they are wise enough to play for a school that incorporates a pro set then they are that much more ahead of the curve. i honestly feel the majority of qbs that fail at the pro level do so primarily because of a lack of proper coaching. all nfl teams should incorporate a qb coach, but they don't. Tiger Woods (i know its not football but the same applies) is accepted as being the best golfer of our generation (possibly of all time) and he has a personal coach, it just makes sense in my mind. i STILL believe if JP had proper coaching, a stable offensive scheme and a staff that would have stuck with him (example: Eli Manning), we wouldn't have the problem that we are now faced with. and it appears as though Trent MAY be heading down the same path; poor coaching and failing to put the player in a position to display his strength within the system. in other words don't ask the qb to do things that DOES NOT take advantage of his NATURAL ability and strength. just my opinion, i could be wrong. You havea point with the rush to activate young QBs. It used to be a few year learning process even for the best of them. The problem is of course the new economic realities in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 What do you think? I'd add that the roster limitations demanded and won by the player's union has some effect. I've never understood the "only 45 active" on game day thing, except in terms of the players wanting to restrict spots and therefore driving salaries up. They are certainly not like most unions, that welcome increased membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robkmil Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 That has nothing to do with why the Bills are in the crapper....... he didn't say it did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 14, 2008 Author Share Posted December 14, 2008 I agree with you completely. I think that the scouting system for QBs is way off. They are out there but if they dont fit the cookie cutter things nfl teams are looking for then they slip through the cracks. -Some of these QBs in the NFL now are just pathetic.Its so strange.They can't even make simple decisions. Its ruining the league.Quality is way down. I wonder if it should be mandatory for every team in the league to carry one QB on their practice squad as a way to help develop the pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dietlbomb Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 There's only one solution: eliminate the forward pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Your suggestion is based on a grossly misinterpreted philosophy. We might not have a quarterback that will stand out to the media, win fantasy football leagues, or more importantly lead us to the playoffs without surrounding talent. Regardless of this fact, it is severely naive of you to actually sit through this Buffalo Bills football season and decide that the reason we are not making the playoffs is our lack of quarterback talent. We lost the Cleveland Browns game mostly to poor quarterbacking. Even still, we had a chance to win it. This is the first time that I've agreed with our city's ruthless attack on a coaching staff. The running game has been ineffective because of the coaches. Our defense plays well, but not well enough on 3rd downs, because of our coaches. I could go on a little, but the point of my response is that if you think changing the rules to benefit the Bills and perpetuate your theory will help the Bills by giving us an edge, then you might be overlooking some of our larger problems. I for one, think that the rules don't need to be changed (pertaining specifically to our inability to judge quarterback talent). I would prefer just getting better people to judge talent, and more importantly better people at executing that talent. The poor quarterbacking and poor running game is due to a terrible offensive line. It has been with every coaching staff and offensive coordinator that has been run out of town.........What is the definition of insanity....Buffalo Bills fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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