Big Turk Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I mean, lets be honest, Jauron is probably not much different than the vast majority of coaches in the NFL. He wins when he has very good or great players, loses when he has bad players and is average when he has average players. Therein lies the problem. Thats really not good enough to build consistent success. We need a coach who is able to take players and get them to move up a grade...bad players become average players, average players become good players, good players become star players. Yes its hard to find coaches like this and to some degree all coaches are limited to the talent they have at their disposal, but at the same time, the good and great coaches are able to get better results than should be expected from the talent they have(see Fisher, Jeff as example #1). Whether its better schemes to put their players in position to make more plays, players having a bigger belief in the coaches and going all out for them, players being scared of the coaches, deciding when to go for it and not go for it at the correct time, or whatever else might play into all of this, Jauron just doesn't seem to have it. What he has is an even keeled demeanor that is able to somehow get less talented players to play slightly above their talent levels and find ways to prevent teams from scoring touchdowns after they move the ball up and down the field, and get just enough from the offense to win some games. It is apparent that once the talent level is improved, his ability to get more out of these players doesn't improve. It appears to actually decline, as he is getting the same production as he did from theoretically worse players. In some areas the numbers might look better(run defense much improved), but the overall results are the same. So what I have come to believe is that Jauron is a very good coach to have to lay a good foundation to a young, inexperienced, and fairly untalented team, but once they progress beyond that, Jauron is no longer the right guy. What the Bills need is a coach who can get the most out of these players and get them to abandon their losing attitudes and losing mentalities they have had ingrained since the time they have been here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 As an outsider it really seems like Jauron doesn't care that his team is losing. This indifference carries over into all facets of the game. That's just my perception of how things are playing out currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I mean, lets be honest, Jauron is probably not much different than the vast majority of coaches in the NFL. He wins when he has very good or great players, loses when he has bad players and is average when he has average players. Therein lies the problem. Thats really not good enough to build consistent success. We need a coach who is able to take players and get them to move up a grade...bad players become average players, average players become good players, good players become star players. Yes its hard to find coaches like this and to some degree all coaches are limited to the talent they have at their disposal, but at the same time, the good and great coaches are able to get better results than should be expected from the talent they have(see Fisher, Jeff as example #1). Whether its better schemes to put their players in position to make more plays, players having a bigger belief in the coaches and going all out for them, players being scared of the coaches, deciding when to go for it and not go for it at the correct time, or whatever else might play into all of this, Jauron just doesn't seem to have it. What he has is an even keeled demeanor that is able to somehow get less talented players to play slightly above their talent levels and find ways to prevent teams from scoring touchdowns after they move the ball up and down the field, and get just enough from the offense to win some games. It is apparent that once the talent level is improved, his ability to get more out of these players doesn't improve. It appears to actually decline, as he is getting the same production as he did from theoretically worse players. In some areas the numbers might look better(run defense much improved), but the overall results are the same. So what I have come to believe is that Jauron is a very good coach to have to lay a good foundation to a young, inexperienced, and fairly untalented team, but once they progress beyond that, Jauron is no longer the right guy. What the Bills need is a coach who can get the most out of these players and get them to abandon their losing attitudes and losing mentalities they have had ingrained since the time they have been here... Wrong, wrong, wrong. Jauron supporters make this same BS assumption, and state it as fact. The only difference is they try to blame everybody and everything else for his failures. There is no evidence that can support your claim of Jauron being like the other 85%. If you have such evidence, present it. Otherwise, accept the real facts he sucks. It's not that his capable up to a certain point, and we need to change to get beyond that point, the reality is he just sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 IIRC, Jauron has one win against a winning team in three seasons with the Bills...one. That's a little different. And unfortunately, his record against losing teams is headed in the wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 IIRC, Jauron has one win against a winning team in three seasons with the Bills...one. That's a little different. And unfortunately, his record against losing teams is headed in the wrong direction.Actually two: Redskins last season, and the Jets the year before. Here's a stat I find even more relevant: Under Jauron, the Bills haven't won a game against a team that won 11 or more games during that season. Out of the 9 games they played against those teams in the 2006 and 2007 seasons, they lost more than half of those games by 22 points or more. Face it, the "Jauron mentality" is to strive for mediocrity and hope you achieve "just enough better" to make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Wrong, wrong, wrong. Jauron supporters make this same BS assumption, and state it as fact. The only difference is they try to blame everybody and everything else for his failures. There is no evidence that can support your claim of Jauron being like the other 85%. If you have such evidence, present it. Otherwise, accept the real facts he sucks. It's not that his capable up to a certain point, and we need to change to get beyond that point, the reality is he just sucks. Well, lets see: Mangini---sucked last year with a bad team, finishing worse than the Bills Bellichick---exceptional Sparano--seems pretty good, lets see what happens in year 2 and 3 tho Tomlin---seems pretty good but also has top flight talent Harbaugh---rookie coach with a dominating defense Crennel---deplorable Lewis---worse than deplorable Fisher---for my money the best coach in the NFL, although he didnt look too good a few years ago with no talent Dungy---yeah he is pretty good Del Rio---looks like talent erosion factoring in here Kubiak---just not enough talent overall there yet Shanahan---pretty good Turner---doing less with a LOT of talent Cable---does this guy even count? Edwards---not so good with a crap roster Coughlin---guy was about run out of town before turning it around late last year Phillips---extremely talented roster, probably should be better than they are Zorn---meh Reid---meh Childress---guy sucked for 3 years, now is doing OK Smith---team plays good or plays bad, no in between...not looking so great now McCarthy---Packers falling pretty hard this year Marinelli---do I really have to go there? Most pathetic coaching figure in the league Gruden---team playing well now, was about to get run out of TB after 3 dismal years Fox---teams playing good now, not so good the last few years Smith---new coach, so far so good Payton---NO has lots of talent on offense, isn't winning them a lot of games because of their D Wisenhunt---helps out a lot by playing in the most pathetic division in all of sports Singletary---not that great, team sucks Holmgren---wins when team is good, loses when team is bad...they are really bad this year Haslett---team sucks, was pretty decent coach in NO... so out of the list of the other 31 coaches, 21 of them have had crap years in one of the last 3 seasons. Factor in that 7 coaches really can't be counted in here because they are either in their first year or replaced fired coaches in season, and you basically are left with Bellichick and Dungy as the only coaches that haven't had a crap year in the last 3. All of the other coaches have had seasons where their teams just weren't very good. Now, are there coaches who have more winning years than others? Of course...Holmgren, Gruden, Reid, Coughlin, Shanahan, Del Rio, and Fisher have all been pretty consistent winners with some losing seasons sprinkled in. I think in most cases tho, you would also say their talent levels allowed them to have that success as well. It isn't much of a secret that good players win more games than average or bad players. Good players can win you games in spite of bad coaching, just like bad coaching can lose you games in spite of having good players. However, in the vast majority of cases, coaches probably aren't responsible for more than a win or two in either direction. So there is some proof that other coaches can be in the same boat. Otherwise, 21 other coaches wouldn't have had a bad year or bad years. they would have just kept winning.... And no, I am not really a Jauron supporter(at least not anymore), just saying that there are a lot more bad coaches out there than good ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Great analysis Matter. Sparano and the Atlanta Smith are darlings now but the likelyhood of that still being the case after 2-3 full seasons isn't very good (much like Payton & Mangini 2 years ago). But yah I'm about done with Jauron not because he's the worst coach in the league; but his sample size is large enough at this point to conclusively say there isn't much upside. "Upside" doesn't necessarily mean we have to pull a Cam Cameron and go after the latest flavor of the month coordinator that has lots of good players on his side of the ball, but if not at least make a play at a retread with more than 1 winning season like a Jim Fassel if in fact Marty & Cowher are pipe dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Dick has proven this year that he can't win with "pretty good players". I fee that we have average talent. We've been in position to win 4 game this year that due to coaching we were unable to get the win in. Cleveland, San Fran, Fish, and Jets are who I'm referring too. But then again, could a lesser coach even have this average talented team competitive enough to be in position to win 10 out of 12 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts