What will the Bills do with their first round pick of 2009?

[jarthur31]

Voted CB but think we might get a RG or OLB in the 1st day of the draft.

[Bill from NYC]

Good thing Marshawn was there in the late rounds, Bill.

 

The 07 draft was as good as it gets; a literal franchise builder. What was it that made it so different than most of the other ones?

[jarthur31]

In a cover 2 defense, the free and strong safety designations don't mean much. So, the issue is, do we need another "big" safety? Assuming Scott plays well, the answer is no, as you have scott, simpson and whitner, with wilson and Youboty as backups. we are done with this. As for corners, sign Greer and let McGee go after next year, as the big $$ need to be spent on TE and Peters this year. Reggie Corner and McKelvin take over along side Greer. Parrish and McKelvin return kicks. done . Stupid question by the original poster. The Bills are loaded in the secondary.

 

OUr needs are center (definately), Tight end (maybe), and DT (probably, as Cargo stinks) and LB

 

Dude you're wrong! In the "Tampa 2" the corners don't mean much but the safeties abso-freakin-lutely do!!!!!!!!! They have to be able to cover half the field whereas the corners just play the slants, outs/ins ("7 routes"), curls, and otherwise short passing game.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Dude you're wrong! In the "Tampa 2" the corners don't mean much but the safeties abso-freakin-lutely do!!!!!!!!! They have to be able to cover half the field whereas the corners just play the slants, outs/ins ("7 routes"), curls, and otherwise short passing game.

When he said "the free and strong safety designations don't mean much," I take it he meant there isn't a huge difference between the two of them (which was widely reported when Jauron and Fewell first implemented the system here), as opposed to the two positions not being important.

 

But to my untrained eye, it seems like we're using the base Tampa 2 much less nowadays than we did back then, and now mix man-to-man and other coverages in there often enough that there is a significant difference between FS and SS. Maybe someone else could elaborate on that for us.

[The Dean]

The 07 draft was as good as it gets; a literal franchise builder. What was it that made it so different than most of the other ones?

 

 

The point remains that the Bills do not pick a DB first in EVERY draft, and don't use "excuses" to justify it, when they do. They always have very legitimate reasons. I know you disagree with that strategy, as do many. Fair enough.

 

HA's poll was a duplicitous attempt to make it seem as if he was actually interested in what position the posters here felt the Bills would take, with the #1 pick. Of course, he only put DBs in the poll because he wanted to make a statement about what the Bills have done in several drafts. While you don't agree with the Bills recent draft strategy, I can't see you setting up a phony, one-sided "poll" to make a point in the 50th post of the thread. You simply come out and say what you think, without the cheap stunt.

 

When the 2009 draft becomes more of a relevant (and interesting) topic, I'm sure someone will post a legitimate and intelligent poll of who the TSW posters think the Bills will draft. I will be surprised if any of the DB positions is the #1 result of that poll.

 

With that said, the 2006 draft is looking to be very close to 2007, in terms of building a solid foundation for this team. And, as much as I love Marshawn, it is much harder to find/acquire a safety in Whitner's class, than it is to find a very good RB.

 

The bottom line, for me, is: How intelligent is it to find too many faults with a management team that has COMPLETELY turned a horrible franchise around in three years, and managed to keep the team as young (and deep) as this club is right now? This team has a very bright future...and they didn't even use all their first rounders on linemen. How could that be?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

The poll is more or less a joke, Dean. Some of us got a chuckle out of it, especially seeing how many posters he managed to hook.

[The Dean]

The poll is more or less a joke, Dean. Some of us got a chuckle out of it, especially seeing how many posters he managed to hook.

 

 

I see that many of the posters he got, are unlikely to know HA for what he is.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I see that many of the posters he got, are unlikely to know HA for what he is.

You'll never see crayonz get the people who have seen his threads before...

[Cru Jones]

I say none of the above. i think they'll go OLB. they gotta replace crowell cuz hes played his last game here. Im thinking one of the 2 USC LBs (Cushing, Maualuga) or maybe Laurinaitis cuz i got a feeling he'll fall like POZ did, just not as far.

[Dibs]

......it is much harder to find/acquire a safety in Whitner's class, than it is to find a very good RB......

You are mistaken here The Dean......it is a big misconception that you can just draft a 1st round RB & slot him in & he will be a very good one.

A very, very high number of 1st round RBs do not pan out for the team drafting them.

 

12 years of 1st round RBs......1995-2006

Red = bust for drafting team

Bold = probowl for drafting team

 

(1)Ki-Jana Carter

(2)Ronnie Brown

(2)Reggie Bush

(4)Edgerrin James

(4)Cedric Benson

(5)Curtis Enis

(5)Ricky Williams

(5)Jamal Lewis

(5)LaDainian Tomlinson

(5)Cadillac Williams

(6)Lawrence Phillips

(7)Thomas Jones

(8)Tim Biakabutuka

(9)Fred Taylor

(11)Ron Dayne

(12)Warrick Dunn

(14)Eddie George

(16)William Green

(17)Tyrone Wheatley

(18)Napoleon Kaufman

(18)Robert Edwards

(18)T.J. Duckett

(19)James Stewart

(19)Shaun Alexander

(21)Rashaan Salaam

(21)Laurence Maroney

(23)Antowain Smith

(23)Deuce McAllister

(23)Willis McGahee

(24)Steven Jackson

(26)Chris Perry

(27)Michael Bennett

(27)Larry Johnson

(27)DeAngelo Williams

(29)John Avery

(30)Kevin Jones

(30)Joseph Addai

(31)Trung Canidate

[The Dean]

You are mistaken here The Dean......it is a big misconception that you can just draft a 1st round RB & slot him in & he will be a very good one.

A very, very high number of 1st round RBs do not pan out for the team drafting them.

 

 

That is a misconception, but it wasn't my point.

 

I didn't mean that a RB drafted in the first round would be more likely to be good (and I don't think I said that...sorry if I gave the wrong impression). What I was trying to say is, it is easier to acquire a good RB, than it is to acquire a SS the level of Donte.

 

I love Marshawn. I think he is a very good back, and an excellent back for this team, for may reasons. I don't think we have seen the best of Marshawn, and I look forward to his continued improvement. I am certainly not dissing his selection in the first round...I was ELATED when he was selected by the Bills.

 

But, good RBs are far more common than very versatile and talented SSs, IMO. Right now, I would count Whitner as a more important acquisition for the team, than Marshawn.

 

I think both the 2006 and the 2007 were excellent drafts that have really contributed to the foundation, and the long term success, of this team. I think, because of the success of Lynch, Poz and Trent, the 2007 class ranks higher. But, 2006 was clearly an important draft in this team's reversal of fortune.

 

Still, none of that goes to my original point that this was a disingenuous thread, from the get-go. to say the Bills only consider DBs early in the draft is factually incorrect. To suggest they have no value at that slot is simply stupid, IMO. I assume we agree on that, Dibs.

[beer]

Who cares right now. We're in the middle of a season.

We'll move up to draft in the 3.5 spot.

 

Exactly! Bills are 5-1. Why are we even speculating about what might happen next April? Sounds like a lot of people around here are used to always thinking about next season...lets enjoy this ride before we start thinking about cornerbacks or linebackers from some school we never watch...............

[Dibs]

.....I didn't mean that a RB drafted in the first round would be more likely to be good (and I don't think I said that...sorry if I gave the wrong impression). What I was trying to say is, it is easier to acquire a good RB, than it is to acquire a SS the level of Donte.......

 

....Still, none of that goes to my original point that this was a disingenuous thread, from the get-go. to say the Bills only consider DBs early in the draft is factually incorrect. To suggest they have no value at that slot is simply stupid, IMO. I assume we agree on that, Dibs.

I'd say you're correct in that there is a higher number of 'very good' RBs in the league than Safeties....therefore it must be harder to find the Safeties. This is more important to C2/T2 type teams so I'm thinking that DW is extra important to us.

Mind you, a lot hangs on exactly how good DW is. Personally I don't get to see enough games nor would I have the ability to make my own determination but even though there are some posters here who think he is average.....I'd go with the general consensus amongst analysts/coaches/players that he is pretty darn good......therefore making his selection in the draft a very good one.

 

Totally agree about the disingenousness(is that a word?) of the thread. What in heavens name prompted it at this point in the season?

Though it is true that the Bills over the past 15(20?) years have drafted a higher than league average of DBs in the first.....this is a totally meaningless stat. You draft for where your needs are and who is available at the time.....to assume otherwise is a bit single-minded IMO.

[Orton's Arm]

When the 2009 draft becomes more of a relevant (and interesting) topic, I'm sure someone will post a legitimate and intelligent poll of who the TSW posters think the Bills will draft. I will be surprised if any of the DB positions is the #1 result of that poll.

Given that you've already posted 11 times in this thread, I don't see why you choose to complain that its underlying topic is irrelevant and uninteresting. On the other hand, I suppose I should point out that many of those 11 responses were merely a continuation of your personal crusade against me, and had nothing to do with the 2009 draft.

[The Dean]

Given that you've already posted 11 times in this thread, I don't see why you choose to complain that its underlying topic is irrelevant and uninteresting. On the other hand, I suppose I should point out that many of those 11 responses were merely a continuation of your personal crusade against me, and had nothing to do with the 2009 draft.

 

 

Way to avoid the issue.

 

At least Bill, Dibs and I turned this thread into something interesting and with substance.

[Orton's Arm]

The poll is more or less a joke, Dean. Some of us got a chuckle out of it, especially seeing how many posters he managed to hook.

Thank you! Glad to see someone has a sense of humor around here. Someone else who hangs around this thread evidently does not . . .

[Dibs]

Thank you! Glad to see someone has a sense of humor around here. Someone else who hangs around this thread evidently does not . . .

I was of 2 minds as to whether you meant it as a joke....or as a serious knock/dig.

 

It wasn't till your post #54 that you basically spelled out that you were not in fact doing a crayonzesque joke but were being serious about your views that the Bills 'always draft DBs' etc.

 

Believe me, I'd love it if I was wrong about this. I'd like nothing better than for the Bills to use their first round pick on a center like Mack. Maybe I've become jaded and cynical because of fifteen year of the Bills dumping first round positions into revolving door CBs while failing to build the offensive line, or a core of talented players to stay with the team for their entire careers.

[Orton's Arm]

Way to avoid the issue.

 

At least Bill, Dibs and I turned this thread into something interesting and with substance.

No, I addressed the underlying issue, which is your personal vendetta against me. Evidently the passage of time hasn't weakened its fervor. I'm not going to attempt to have a civil discussion with you, because my past attempts at doing so have merely led you to ridicule my intelligence whenever I disagreed with your position. You continue to ridicule my intelligence, despite the fact the passage of time has proven me right with respect to at least three of our past disagreements.

 

1) Losman. Obviously.

 

2) Back before the Takeo Spikes injury, I argued the following. 1) the Bills were in rebuilding mode whether they knew it or not. 2) Because they were in rebuilding mode, they should trade away older players who still had trade value. I mentioned Spikes and Fletcher as two potential candidates.

 

3) Jay Cutler, whom you thought would be a bust.

 

I would have hoped that my being right on those occasions would have resulted in you rethinking your disrespectful attitude toward me. We could then have had reasonable discussions, instead of wasting bandwidth by calling each other names. Evidently you rethought nothing, and are perfectly content to continue your petty crusade against me. No one can stop you from doing that, but you need to understand that my purpose for being on this forum isn't to engage in petty personal squabbles. If you're ever interested in relating to me on something other than a petty personal squabble level, please let me know.

[Orton's Arm]

I was of 2 minds as to whether you meant it as a joke....or as a serious knock/dig.

You were right to be of two minds, because it was a little of both.

It wasn't till your post #54 that you basically spelled out that you were not in fact doing a crayonzesque joke but were being serious about your views that the Bills 'always draft DBs' etc.

I wouldn't go quite so far as to say that the Bills "always draft DBs." However, I'm pretty sure that if the current regime had a choice between filling a hole in the secondary and filling a hole at some other position, it would have a moderate to strong preference for the former.

[Dibs]

You were right to be of two minds, because it was a little of both.

 

I wouldn't go quite so far as to say that the Bills "always draft DBs." However, I'm pretty sure that if the current regime had a choice between filling a hole in the secondary and filling a hole at some other position, it would have a moderate to strong preference for the former.

Hmmm......based upon 3 drafts.

 

The first we were not going to draft a QB.....nor were we going to draft N'Gata. With the talent on the board, this left us with drafting either a LB or a DB(selections ran LB, QB, QB, N'Gata, LB after #8)......and since Safety is very important in the T2 it made sense that we drafted one since we didn't have a starter on the roster. We didn't have a starting DT either(which is also important to the scheme) so they spent resources to trade up and make sure they got one(didn't pan out obviously).

 

The second there was no DBs drafted.

 

The third....secondary was in need(though not imperative) & the best DB dropped to #11 so we selected the best available player. Looking at the other viable options.....OT & RB(with Peters & Lynch, these were not reasonable options at #11).....the only viable player in the vicinity was OG Alberts(who was my preference) but with Dockery locked & Butler showing good promise.....and the concept that McKelvin was rated well above Butler.....he was the only realistic pick.

 

In and of itself, the current regime has drafted quite logically. As it happens, there has been either a high need at DB or no available talent in the areas where we were more needy(i.e. 2008 there were no TE, WR, C, DE, DT or LB left at the #11 slot rated anywhere near McKelvin.....the first one of those positions went at the #28 selection).

 

You seem to be influenced by Bills history here rather than analytical observation of the 3 drafts you are referring to.