There is more to this loss then people want to see

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

I much more inclined to pin the first fumble on Fowler's ¡Ole! blocking attempt.

 

I'm always impressed by upside-down exclamation marks.

[apuszczalowski]

I much more inclined to pin the first fumble on Fowler's ¡Ole! blocking attempt.

I'd blame Fowler and Dockery together on that play. If you watch it again, Fowler turns to his right and Dockery moves to the left to no one letting the guy come right up the middle un touched. Dockery then goes after someone behind the d-line while Fowler is tied up with another D-linemen.

[Bill from NYC]

Ok Jp is the scape goat because every one wante to see him fail. Lets blame the 5 sacks and 2 turnovers because he likes to hold on to the ball too much. But what were his stats? 15/21 220 1 td and 1 int he completed 71% of his passes is that some one who lost the game for us not completely maybe it was his 5 sacks or his inability to hold on the the ball when he got sacked causing 2 fumbles. So maybe tha t was it. Yes when the game was on the line JP crumbled that seems to be his shortcoming and the one of the 2 differences between Trent and JP because letes face it in STl Trent was 15/25 197 1 td 1 int and 4 sacks no fumbles. So Trent can hold on to the ball when being sacked and is much cooler under pressure. So the debate is over Tren is the better leader for this offense. I dont blame the QB as much as I do the coaches. We need to stop playing not to lose and play to win.

 

Does anyone realize that we are paying 9 mil + a year to a reciever that is catching the ball 3.2 times a game yes he has huge catches when it comes his way but 9 + mil to only catch 3.2 time a game is way too much money. That tells me that we dont have much of an offense. The conservative approach isnrt going to win games we need to win. I knew Arizona would have been our first test and we failed. San diego is our next test. I watched Miami beat them and Miami looked alot better than we did. The Jets offense must be as good as arizona because they were able to win the shootout. NE didnt look much better but still escaped with a win in SF... This division is up for grabs and we are not the best ones in it by far. I hope Jauron can make the nice bye wek adjustments he has made in the past because we have several areas that need to be fixed and one by far is our star WR making 9 mil + a year should be making an avg of 6.25 catches per game he cant just be the deep threat guy he has to be the goto guy on 3rd down and make the catches to move the chains.

 

I just wanted to air those things out and if share the opinon great if not we are entitled to our own view and perceptions. I do agree that JP is not a fit for this offense. I do disagree he is not starter worthy in the right offensive system. I do agree JP crumbles under Pressure so did Drew Bledsoe. the mentalty there is to make the big play instead of making plays that put your team in the position to win. I dont believe our defense is this bad I believe the coaching philosphy against certain teams is a mistake you have to go into win the game not play the game not to lose but lose anyway.

 

Please don't apologize for your opinions.

 

I understand your point about Evans, but I disagree. I think that keeping him was essential in terms of continuity. He is a deep threat and a vet on a young team with an up and coming qb. If they let him go, how would they replace him? Would they be forced to use a first round pick that could have been used on a TE or OC? See my point?

Also, he is in his prime. I remember reading that he is the 3rd highest paid wideout right now. but in 2 or 3 years, he won't be in the top 10, yet he will still be in his prime.

 

As for this season, there is time to get back on track. Even playing 2-2 football over the next 4 would leave us at 6-3, which is not to shabby. 7-2 would be great! The bye came at a great time. We know about injuries to a few guys, and who knows if players such as Stroud and Schobel are nicked up? They missed practices as I recall.

 

If Trent gets healthy and they beat the chargers, we will be back on track, or so I see it.

[BuffalOhio]

So many OCs' go with their scripted play selections regardless - I'm surprised that more decent HCs' don't send somebody up to the booth to rip their clipboard off off them and smack them with it.

 

Well, in the Bills' case, Jauron could just walk over to Schoenert and do it himself.....

[Orton's Arm]

I want to be fair in this discussion. Like all teams we have strong points and weak points. But to some degree we have been living on borrowed time on the offensive side of the ball. You can't sleep walk for 3 quarters and "believe" you'll pull it out in the 4th quarter.

 

To a large extent, that's on the O line. I think they have been atrocious this year in their ability to run block. That left side should be annihilating defenses. Our middle is so damn soft. Fowler keeps being blown back and the other two guards overcompensate. Lynch has to gain yards mostly by himself when he goes up the middle. The way the line plays now, Jackson is the better RB for this team. He as an ability to be slippery and making his "footprint" small.

 

Also having a pass rusher come at your QB unblocked is just plain inexcusable. A back should at least be chipping him. I have no idea why our blocking scheme didn't pick up the safety.

 

Most of our ills this year are either directly or indirectly a result of Oline play. I don't even want to get into the whole Jason Peters thing - though I think he had a relatively good game yesterday.

 

Only yesterday did I see how much having Edwards back there helped compensate for our shortcomings. I thought JP played well - but he is too excitable and overly emotional to calm a team down when their backs are against the wall.

 

Finally, our receivers seem incapable of making themselves available as targets when the chips are down. I like Josh Reed's play this season in that respect - but Hardy's development had better accelerate. I don't know why Steve Johnson isn't on the field. He has great hands. Maybe his route running is suspect.

 

I think our run offense is great when we have some good blocking. Our WRs can make plays when the QB has more than 2.5 seconds to make a throw. Our TEs just make up the numbers. I had high hopes for Schouman but he has been hopeless so far. Royal is just a locker room lawyer. He's not Witten. Not even close.

 

As for the defense, pass rush has been a problem all along this year, but it was mitigated by us playing impotent offenses for the most part. Not getting to the quarterback is gonna hurt us unless Schobel steps us consistently.

 

Stroud is double teamed all the time, so I have no idea what Schobel's excuse is. He was being owned by Gandy yesterday for Cr**sake.

 

I have belief in Jauron, Schonert and Fewell - but somebody had better light a fire under both of our lines. There's too much talent there for them to be mediocre.

 

Thank God for our kicking game. It always is gonna give us a chance. I also want to see more Youbouty than McKelvin in the secondary. Dude's a player.

 

We have a good history of fixing stuff during the bye, hopefully that holds true for us again. Sure we're 4-1 but the next 5 games are so are gonna be brutal. And in our conference...

An excellent post. As you've pointed out, Edwards helped mask the true extent of some of the Bills' problems this year, most notably on the offensive line. I truly hope the Bills make that their #1 and #2 priority (and maybe their #3 priority as well) going into the 2009 draft.

 

As for Schobel, I think he was playing with an injury. That said, he's not the same player he once was, even when he's healthy. I still think the Bills should ignore the RDE position in the early rounds of the 2009 draft in order to focus on the 0-line. Maybe Ellis will develop into a good DE.

[Bmwolf21]

I'm always impressed by upside-down exclamation marks.

Copy & paste works wonders sometimes, you know?

 

I'd blame Fowler and Dockery together on that play. If you watch it again, Fowler turns to his right and Dockery moves to the left to no one letting the guy come right up the middle un touched. Dockery then goes after someone behind the d-line while Fowler is tied up with another D-linemen.

I'll give you partial credit. The play looked like it was designed to go to the left; Fowler and Butler pulled left and Dockery blocked back inside (to the right.)

 

But the guy who got through untouched went right by Fowler's and Dockery's faces, so they can share credit for the fumble. But it definitely looks like Fowler lunges and misses on Antonio Smith, who met JP & Marshawn at the handoff spot.

 

You can see the replay HERE, at around the :22 mark.

[DrFishfinder]

Ok Jp is the scape goat because every one wante to see him fail. Lets blame the 5 sacks and 2 turnovers because he likes to hold on to the ball too much. But what were his stats? 15/21 220 1 td and 1 int he completed 71% of his passes is that some one who lost the game for us not completely maybe it was his 5 sacks or his inability to hold on the the ball when he got sacked causing 2 fumbles. So maybe tha t was it. Yes when the game was on the line JP crumbled that seems to be his shortcoming and the one of the 2 differences between Trent and JP because letes face it in STl Trent was 15/25 197 1 td 1 int and 4 sacks no fumbles. So Trent can hold on to the ball when being sacked and is much cooler under pressure. So the debate is over Tren is the better leader for this offense. I dont blame the QB as much as I do the coaches. We need to stop playing not to lose and play to win.

 

Does anyone realize that we are paying 9 mil + a year to a reciever that is catching the ball 3.2 times a game yes he has huge catches when it comes his way but 9 + mil to only catch 3.2 time a game is way too much money. That tells me that we dont have much of an offense. The conservative approach isnrt going to win games we need to win. I knew Arizona would have been our first test and we failed. San diego is our next test. I watched Miami beat them and Miami looked alot better than we did. The Jets offense must be as good as arizona because they were able to win the shootout. NE didnt look much better but still escaped with a win in SF... This division is up for grabs and we are not the best ones in it by far. I hope Jauron can make the nice bye wek adjustments he has made in the past because we have several areas that need to be fixed and one by far is our star WR making 9 mil + a year should be making an avg of 6.25 catches per game he cant just be the deep threat guy he has to be the goto guy on 3rd down and make the catches to move the chains.

 

Finally I said it before Jauron has not figure out how to stop the opposing team from Blitzing we have been blitz since the OAK game STL copied it and ARI we have to show teams we will beat you on the BLitz or the rest of the season will go sour quickly.

 

I just wanted to air those things out and if share the opinon great if not we are entitled to our own view and perceptions. I do agree that JP is not a fit for this offense. I do disagree he is not starter worthy in the right offensive system. I do agree JP crumbles under Pressure so did Drew Bledsoe. the mentalty there is to make the big play instead of making plays that put your team in the position to win. I dont believe our defense is this bad I believe the coaching philosphy against certain teams is a mistake you have to go into win the game not play the game not to lose but lose anyway.

 

I am not spell checking so i apologize for any mistyped/misspelled words.

It all starts, or ends, with the offensive line. If they pass block and open holes for the running game, the team will most likely win the TOP and most teams that win TOP win the game. Buffalo's OL has not played well this year. At least not consistantly. Their inability to protect the QB from blitzes would get anyone killed. Their inability to consistantly open holes for the running game forces the passing game. Buffalo's passing game is Lee Evans long and Reed on shorter patterns. Buffalo's blitz all but disappeared against Arizona. This team needs to learn how to adjust, especially defensively and that falls on the coaching staff. Until the OL can demonstrate that it can hold up against the blitz, we can expect to see a lot of that against the Bills this year. That could make for a very tough remainder of the season.

[MRW]

- This game was about turnovers. The Bills had 4 turnovers leading to 24 points. Whe you put your defense on the field for 2/3 of the game because you can not hang on to the ball, this is what happens. Everything else is secondary. We have no idea what would have transpoired absent the turnovers, but it certainly would have been a closer game.

Sorry, but I don't think this is true at all. I could buy it if the D forced the Cards to punt or even just to kick a field goal in the first half (other than by time running out) but they never came close to stopping them. The second turnover came with the Bills down 14, the third with the Bills down 24. This game was not about turnovers.

 

If the Bills hadn't turned the ball over and had put another TD on the board, I think the Cards would've scored 50+. But they didn't need to because the Bills aren't that kind of offensive team.

[cale]

Sorry, but I don't think this is true at all. I could buy it if the D forced the Cards to punt or even just to kick a field goal in the first half (other than by time running out) but they never came close to stopping them. The second turnover came with the Bills down 14, the third with the Bills down 24. This game was not about turnovers.

 

If the Bills hadn't turned the ball over and had put another TD on the board, I think the Cards would've scored 50+. But they didn't need to because the Bills aren't that kind of offensive team.

 

I agree. This game wasn't about turnovers. At least not to any appreciable degree. The D was where it all began and started. Oh, the offense didn't help - but AZ was slanting us to death on the short and middle stuff. WTF? Except for that vicious hit on Warner by Mitchell, there was just no, "Let's Get After Them."

 

It's like they were neutered or something...Maybe they were afraid to give up the big play - But when your CBs are 10 yards off the receiver - that's just silly. Fitzg. needs to be jammed at the line ala Owens. To his credit - Greer was doing that occasionally. But he lost the size advantage.

 

Also our safeties were not as intimidating back there as they normally are. I don't know, it seems we lost this game shortly after Edwards went down. I just can't believe that with guys like Stroud, Poz, Whitner and Mitchell - they didn't get their tails up and say no more TDs for AZ.

 

They just didn't make Warner do something different...BTW, that's about as good as I've ever seen Warner play. Holy cr8p, he looked All World out there....

 

C

[rockpile]

I am not spell checking so i apologize for any mistyped/misspelled words.

 

 

So you will forgive me if I do not read what you wanted to say, right?

 

I do not have the patience to try to sort out this run-on sentence / paragraph.

Now, if we were in the same room with some cold beer, it would probably flow just fine.

 

Just a thought for future threads, amigo.

 

Rock