Wow...what an ending!

[Alaska Darin]

How about the Sabres?

It'd take some player movement. I'd say the Sabres are more interested in Orpik right now.

[Spun]

I have to say, nice job by the Penguins fans staying around and giving their team a nice ovation, and the Pens team saluting them...between that and the customary handshake, those are things about hockey that make the sport great.

 

I think the ratings for the NHL are going up for a number of reasons:

 

4. Sleeping Giants Are Awake Again- Rangers are contending, the Bruins are back on the map, and the Chicago Blackhawks are on the rise again, and having these 3 markets involved in the NHL again can only help the sport.

 

Yes, it was cool to see the Pens fans stick it out. The Pens put up a very good fight. Actually, it is cool to see small markets on the rise. I can do without the Rangers and the Bruins. The Blackhawks have been down for a while so their rise is overdue. Chicago has a good assortment of young players. I believe having small markets involved in the top of the standings is even better for the sport. A seven game final would have helped but this was a good final. While not popular in some circles having the Sun Belt teams win Cups grows the sport. When big market teams win it feels like an oligopoly is taking place. There were the greedy media types who wanted so bad for Crosby to go to a big market team like NY or LA. I wish Crosby was drafted by the Sabres but having him go to a small market team was the next best thing.

 

Crosby, Malkin, Staal and friends helped save the Pens franchise. It would have been a shame to see Pittburgh lose their team with such a great history (Lemieux, Jagr, two Stanley Cups).

 

The big market cities win enough.

[Spun]

How about the Sabres?

 

Other than Vanek, the Sabres don't seem to want to pay big salaries. That explains the recent signings of draftees. I would like for the Sabres to sign Miller and help him with an improved defense.

 

Hossa played very well in the playoffs especially against the Red Wings. He will command big money. The Pens front office will be busy over the next few years trying to resign all that talent.

[LongLiveRalph]

Other than Vanek, the Sabres don't seem to want to pay big salaries. That explains the recent signings of draftees. I would like for the Sabres to sign Miller and help him with an improved defense.

 

Hossa played very well in the playoffs especially against the Red Wings. He will command big money. The Pens front office will be busy over the next few years trying to resign all that talent.

 

the Sabres didn't want to pay Vanek, Edmonton did.

 

Watching Ottawa get slaughtered last year, and watching Pittsburgh get outplayed this year makes me think the Sabres are not as close as we'd all hope.

[Spun]

the Sabres didn't want to pay Vanek, Edmonton did.

 

Watching Ottawa get slaughtered last year, and watching Pittsburgh get outplayed this year makes me think the Sabres are not as close as we'd all hope.

 

 

The Western Conference seems to have a pattern going with Anaheim and Detroit having similar solid, physical teams. I thought the Ducks were going to repeat. Detroit's defense was like Anaheim's in that they would form this crown around the blueline that made it very hard for the Pens (and most everyone else) to penetrate to the net. Ottawa sounds like they are done. The Sabres woulkd be smart to follow the Western Conference model. Build from the goalie on out, have defensemen who can play offense (Brian Campbell) and defensive forwards. The Sabres aren't close. Their roster has practically turned over from the post lockout team. Max may be gone next. Sabres have two picks in the first round don't they?

[shrader]

the Sabres didn't want to pay Vanek, Edmonton did.

 

Ummm, if they didn't want to pay him, they wouldn't be.

[LongLiveRalph]

Ummm, if they didn't want to pay him, they wouldn't be.

 

True that. But do you think that after watching the last two Stanley Cup finals, the brass is excited that a guy like Vanek is tied to that much cash? He's the type of player who gets owned by defenses like Detroit and Anaheim. Hell, Heatley Spezza Crosby Malkin struggled....

 

It was mentioned by Spun:

 

Unfortunately that's the model- A goalie you're confident with, and protect him with your D...It's what wins more often than not over 82 games, and it's what wins in the playoffs...Those 2 years of high octane Sabres teams were SO fun to watch, you wish "lock 'em down" wasn't the case...Nobody wants to see 8-7 games, but I think 4-3 is almost always better than 2-1...

 

That said, there are some incredibly talented young players in the NHL who's skill always shines through. As a hockey fan, it's impossible not to appreciate that talent...I mean, Zetterberg won the Conn Smythe producing on offense AND playing against Crosby the whole series...Gotta love it...

[Alaska Darin]

True that. But do you think that after watching the last two Stanley Cup finals, the brass is excited that a guy like Vanek is tied to that much cash? He's the type of player who gets owned by defenses like Detroit and Anaheim. Hell, Heatley Spezza Crosby Malkin struggled....

Because they're all perimeter players. Vanek isn't. He scores the majority of his goals within 5 feet of the net. And it's not so much Detroit's "defense", it's Nick Lidstrom + puck possession + the trap they play.

[LongLiveRalph]

Because they're all perimeter players. Vanek isn't. He scores the majority of his goals within 5 feet of the net. And it's not so much Detroit's "defense", it's Nick Lidstrom + puck possession + the trap they play.

 

I understand that (wouldn't necessarily call Heatley a perimeter player, but certainly the other three.) Vanek has skills that are irreplaceable. Consistency (both in effort and production) will be expected from him. But like I said above, after watching the Stanley Cup finals the last two years, it's hard to be excited about our frugal franchise hitching their $50 million wagon to a guy like Vanek, who has more than his share of puzzy-ish tendencies and stretches of invisibility....

 

As far as the defenses, while Anaheim does have some bruisers, both teams' M.O. is to play efficient, safe, position defense, with crisp, safe puck movement...And some of the "jam" mixed in when need be. Limit turnovers, 2-on-1's, etc. You know, the types of teams Vanek disappears against.

[Dante]

You mean right after they called the ridiculous penalty on Maltby's dive that ended up giving Detroit the big early PP that took the Penguins' crowd outta the game.

 

The officials in this series can kiss my ass. They sucked. As usual.

I;ll give the Wings props for being skilled, but much like the Av's of a few years ago, they are the masters of setting pic's. Obstruction and interference that is rarely called. If the game is called correctly, it may have been a different series.

[Alaska Darin]

As far as the defenses, while Anaheim does have some bruisers, both teams' M.O. is to play efficient, safe, position defense, with crisp, safe puck movement...And some of the "jam" mixed in when need be. Limit turnovers, 2-on-1's, etc. You know, the types of teams Vanek disappears against.

Let's just say I disagree. The Ducks and Wings have 2 things most teams don't: the best defensemen in the world. Anaheim has both Pronger and Neidermeyer and Detroit obviously has Lidstrom. Those guys eat half the minutes available every single night and that's huge.

 

And I wouldn't call Detroit "safe" in their transition passing game at all.

 

Vanek's pretty much like a more skilled, less physical version of Holmstrom. He's only going to be as effective as the teammates who surround him and it's totally unfair to compare him to guys like Crosby and Malkin who're likely Top 10 All Time in overall skill. Swap the 2 guys and Vanek is putting up stupid numbers playing with Zetterberg, PD, Lidstrom and Rafalski instead of the anemic PP cast (sans Roy) that he's "enjoying" in Buffalo.

 

Vanek continues to get blamed for the sins of his teammates.

[Alaska Darin]

I;ll give the Wings props for being skilled, but much like the Av's of a few years ago, they are the masters of setting pic's. Obstruction and interference that is rarely called. If the game is called correctly, it may have been a different series.

Boy, you're not kidding.

[LongLiveRalph]

Let's just say I disagree. The Ducks and Wings have 2 things most teams don't: the best defensemen in the world. Anaheim has both Pronger and Neidermeyer and Detroit obviously has Lidstrom. Those guys eat half the minutes available every single night and that's huge.

 

So...$50 million for Vanek makes Campbell too expensive....

 

 

I do not blame the Sabres failures this season on Vanek. The only thing I blame on Vanek is inconsistent effort. He definitely DOES NOT bring it every night, and that is unacceptable.

 

Of course he would score if he was in Holmstrom's place...But so would Pominville and Kotalik, and you and me....

[Alaska Darin]

So...$50 million for Vanek makes Campbell too expensive....

The market made Campbell too expensive. He's going to get a contract on par with Phaneuf, Pronger, etc. He's not even close to that level of play. What the Sabres are paying Vanek had no impact on the decision not to pay a guy what he's asking for and will get on the open market. If I was going to blame any contracts for not keeping Campbell, it'd be Max and Connelly - but that's still not reality. If Brian Campbell was Dion Phaneuf, the Sabres woulda ponied up. He's not and they didn't.

I do not blame the Sabres failures this season on Vanek. The only thing I blame on Vanek is inconsistent effort. He definitely DOES NOT bring it every night, and that is unacceptable.

That's just ridiculous. Vanek's guilty of having a huge contract, being a young guy, and gripping his stick too tight at the beginning of the year. I love how hard everyone rides a 24 year old guy who already has over 100 NHL goals and 200 points. Like all young NHL players aren't inconsistant.

Of course he would score if he was in Holmstrom's place...But so would Pominville and Kotalik, and you and me....

So his sin is he scores more goals on a less talented team. The bastard.

[LongLiveRalph]

The market made Campbell too expensive. He's going to get a contract on par with Phaneuf, Pronger, etc. He's not even close to that level of play. What the Sabres are paying Vanek had no impact on the decision not to pay a guy what he's asking for and will get on the open market. If I was going to blame any contracts for not keeping Campbell, it'd be Max and Connelly - but that's still not reality. If Brian Campbell was Dion Phaneuf, the Sabres woulda ponied up. He's not and they didn't.

 

Alaska Darin: "Anaheim has both Pronger and Neidermeyer and Detroit obviously has Lidstrom. Those guys eat half the minutes available every single night and that's huge."

 

I'm not saying Campbell is at that level of play either. But he was good enough to play 27 minutes a night for a team that went to two straight ECF's, which as you stated, is "huge." Where's Phaneuf been in the playoffs?

 

That's just ridiculous. Vanek's guilty of having a huge contract, being a young guy, and gripping his stick too tight at the beginning of the year. I love how hard everyone rides a 24 year old guy who already has over 100 NHL goals and 200 points. Like all young NHL players aren't inconsistant.

 

So his sin is he scores more goals on a less talented team. The bastard.

 

His sin is occasional disinterest and lack of effort. He's played one season against top-line defense and he had one good 15-game stretch. He is young but he doesn't seem to be a leader or a guy the team rallies around. Crosby's skill is outrageous but it's his effort night-in night-out that makes him world class.

[Alaska Darin]

Alaska Darin: "Anaheim has both Pronger and Neidermeyer and Detroit obviously has Lidstrom. Those guys eat half the minutes available every single night and that's huge."

 

I'm not saying Campbell is at that level of play either. But he was good enough to play 27 minutes a night for a team that went to two straight ECF's, which as you stated, is "huge." Where's Phaneuf been in the playoffs?

So earlier you said the West was tougher but now Campbell is comparable to those players because he plays comparable minutes? Tough to see the correlation given that defense has been the Sabres' weakness for a looooooooooong time. Campbell is a poor man's Brian Rafalski. Same type of skills, less intelligence.

Where's Phaneuf been in the playoffs?

That's a really stupid question.

 

Phaneuf scored as many points in the single series he played this season as Soupy has scored in ANY postSEASON. Are you actually implying that Phaneuf isn't a better defenseman than Brian Campbell? Because you'd be awfully lonely in this world if that's actually your opinion.

His sin is occasional disinterest and lack of effort. He's played one season against top-line defense and he had one good 15-game stretch. He is young but he doesn't seem to be a leader or a guy the team rallies around. Crosby's skill is outrageous but it's his effort night-in night-out that makes him world class.

Thomas Vanek is sorry he's not Sidney Crosby. Of course, so are all but about 5 players in the history of the NHL.

[LongLiveRalph]

So earlier you said the West was tougher but now Campbell is comparable to those players because he plays comparable minutes? Tough to see the correlation given that defense has been the Sabres' weakness for a looooooooooong time. Campbell is a poor man's Brian Rafalski. Same type of skills, less intelligence.

 

Of course the West is better and tougher. But you talked about how HUGE it is to have a defenseman who can play big minutes. Campbell was that guy for Buffalo, and he's still that guy for the Sharks. Read up on what the Sharks teammates and staff thought of Campbell. The Sabres defense has been a weakness, so they let their best defensman walk over $1-2 million? I agree with your earlier assessment that the Max/Connolly contracts are the true criminal elements here.

 

Phaneuf scored as many points in the single series he played this season as Soupy has scored in ANY postSEASON. Are you actually implying that Phaneuf isn't a better defenseman than Brian Campbell? Because you'd be awfully lonely in this world if that' actually your opinion.

 

I wasn't implying that Soupy is better than Phaneuf. They are very different players, Phaneuf is much more physical and is a better defenseman, and is also only 23. I have no doubt he will be just fine, but lets hold off on putting him up there with Pronger and Lidstrom, as he still has NO CLUE what a 2nd round playoff game looks like.

 

Thomas Vanek is sorry he's not Sidney Crosby. Of course, so are all but about 5 players in the history of the NHL.

 

That's not the point I was making, but thats ok.

 

Thomas Vanek has 10x the skill of Jason Pominville and competes with about half the effort and intensity. That to me is not a $50 million man.

[shrader]

First of all, they didn't let their best defensemen walk. Second, it was over $2.5-3 million, not $1-2 million. That difference is one very solid NHL player.

 

So why is it that you're going to hold a lack of playoff success against Phaneuf, but then you'll turn around and talk about Campbell as you talk about Pronger and Lidstrom? 5 series wins makes all that difference compared to what Pronger and Lidstrom have done (specifically, Lidstrom)? Nevermind the fact that Campbell has now been a part of back-to-back huge playoff failures. Sure, maybe the rest of the team had a lot to do with those losses, but the same goes for Phaneuf.

 

Also, why is it that you'll admit that age plays a major role in what kind of player Phaneuf can become but you don't mention it for Vanek? Both are essentially the same age and have the same amount of professional hockey under their belts.

[Alaska Darin]

Of course the West is better and tougher. But you talked about how HUGE it is to have a defenseman who can play big minutes. Campbell was that guy for Buffalo, and he's still that guy for the Sharks. Read up on what the Sharks teammates and staff thought of Campbell. The Sabres defense has been a weakness, so they let their best defensman walk over $1-2 million? I agree with your earlier assessment that the Max/Connolly contracts are the true criminal elements

here.

Yeah, I care about what players say about other players in the press. That's always a good indicator because hockey players don't have a code or anything.

 

Campbell being the Sabres "best defenseman" is more an indication of the position's weakness than anything else - not that I agree with you on that point either.

I wasn't implying that Soupy is better than Phaneuf. They are very different players, Phaneuf is much more physical and is a better defenseman, and is also only 23. I have no doubt he will be just fine, but lets hold off on putting him up there with Pronger and Lidstrom, as he still has NO CLUE what a 2nd round playoff game looks like.

He'll be "just fine"? Dude, when Brian Campbell was 23 the Sabres couldn't trade him for a bag of pucks. Phaneuf is an ALL STAR. And Phaneuf not having a clue what the second round looks like has nothing to do with how good a player he is. Jesus Christ, how the hell can a BILLS' fan use that kind of "lahjik"?

Thomas Vanek has 10x the skill of Jason Pominville and competes with about half the effort and intensity. That to me is not a $50 million man.

Some guys just take a little longer to get it. The Sabres wouldn't be a better team without Thomas Vanek and the penis envy everyone continually throws at his contract is ridiculous.

[taterhill]

Can someone explain why people insist that Vanek does not give full effort all of the time? I find this laughable.....