For those Bills fans preaching doom and gloom

[Cornerville]

Nate Clements...veyr good corner, never a Pro-Bowler....

 

London Fletcher: Tackling machine, very good LB.

 

Willis McGahee: Self proclaimed great RB, had a great 1/2 season plus great games against the Jets, otherwise not much else.

 

Can you all tell me just how much the Bills accomplished WITH these players????

 

So if you are down about Marv not bringing back NC or LF, what if they did, but yet neglected the OL YET again??

 

The Bills defense was poor last year with those guys, how can it get much worse without them???

 

Plus the offseason is NOT over yet, and we still have the NFL Draft to assess.

 

Both sides of the ball need fixing, glad to see at least Marv and Co. took big strides into fixing the OL.

[bud8andbills]

Nate Clements...veyr good corner, never a Pro-Bowler....

 

London Fletcher: Tackling machine, very good LB.

 

Willis McGahee: Self proclaimed great RB, had a great 1/2 season plus great games against the Jets, otherwise not much else.

 

Can you all tell me just how much the Bills accomplished WITH these players????

 

So if you are down about Marv not bringing back NC or LF, what if they did, but yet neglected the OL YET again??

 

The Bills defense was poor last year with those guys, how can it get much worse without them???

 

Plus the offseason is NOT over yet, and we still have the NFL Draft to assess.

 

Both sides of the ball need fixing, glad to see at least Marv and Co. took big strides into fixing the OL.

Don't ever ask the "How much worse can it get" question. Maybe something like "Things can only get better". Other than that good post and I do agree.

[SHOUTBOX MONSTER!]

Nate Clements...veyr good corner, never a Pro-Bowler....

 

I agree with your points, and I think the team is in the right direction, but Clements was most certainly a Pro-Bowler.

[Cornerville]

I agree with your points, and I think the team is in the right direction, but Clements was most certainly a Pro-Bowler.

 

I might have been too strong with my Clements comments...granted NC is a heck of a player and will be missed...but for that contract? Forget it, give me that $ to beef up the lines which can make multiple players better instead of just a position like NC did.

[MRW]

The issue (to me at least) is not that the Bills cannot replace the production of those guys (except Clements, I think he was much better and more important to the D than many are giving him credit for). The problem is that now the team is in the position of having to fill all those holes at once, in addition to many of the question marks they had heading into the offseason (DT, OL - good strides made but IMO still could use some help, 2nd WR). It seems to me we're leaning awfully heavily on the draft patching up our weak spots, and even on my most wildly optimistic days I don't see it happening.

[Kelly the Dog]

They accomplished nothing with Lee Evans and Jason Peters and Schobel and Losman and Whitner and Moorman and Lindell, etc., does that mean they are bad or worthless or we can do well without them?

[MDH]

They accomplished nothing with Lee Evans and Jason Peters and Schobel and Losman and Whitner and Moorman and Lindell, etc., does that mean they are bad or worthless or we can do well without them?

 

Hey that line sounds familiar. I feel like I've heard it somewhere before!

[95altima1]

Nate Clements...veyr good corner, never a Pro-Bowler....

 

London Fletcher: Tackling machine, very good LB.

 

Willis McGahee: Self proclaimed great RB, had a great 1/2 season plus great games against the Jets, otherwise not much else.

 

Can you all tell me just how much the Bills accomplished WITH these players????

 

So if you are down about Marv not bringing back NC or LF, what if they did, but yet neglected the OL YET again??

 

The Bills defense was poor last year with those guys, how can it get much worse without them???

 

Plus the offseason is NOT over yet, and we still have the NFL Draft to assess.

 

Both sides of the ball need fixing, glad to see at least Marv and Co. took big strides into fixing the OL.

 

one of the things that I am surprised I have not heard on here much if that fact that if our O-fence improves our D will too along with it. Does any buddy remember watching the past 7-8 seasons where we had so many 3 and out's our D was just warn all to hell by the end of the game and the started lacking. I am not saying that our new line is going make our D dominate in every game but the better the line, the better the run and pass, means more first downs, means more ball control, means more of our D starters staying in the game without having to go to our second string as much, means better players on the field.

[Flbillsfan#1]

I agree with your points, and I think the team is in the right direction, but Clements was most certainly a Pro-Bowler.

What year was he named to the probowl?

[Cornerville]

They accomplished nothing with Lee Evans and Jason Peters and Schobel and Losman and Whitner and Moorman and Lindell, etc., does that mean they are bad or worthless or we can do well without them?

 

 

I uunderstand your point and that is a good one...but I was thinking more on the lines of...ok Clements is a fantastic CB...but now that $ is allocated to the OL...which can make Losman, Evans, Parrish, Starting RB, etc ALL better in one swoop...a position that has been hurting on this team for years.

 

I hope the Bills continue to build from the inside out...not the TD way of building from the outside in.

[Flbillsfan#1]

The issue (to me at least) is not that the Bills cannot replace the production of those guys (except Clements, I think he was much better and more important to the D than many are giving him credit for). The problem is that now the team is in the position of having to fill all those holes at once, in addition to many of the question marks they had heading into the offseason (DT, OL - good strides made but IMO still could use some help, 2nd WR). It seems to me we're leaning awfully heavily on the draft patching up our weak spots, and even on my most wildly optimistic days I don't see it happening.

Last year they cut Milloy, Adams, Vincent, those were bigger holes to fill which they did. ( unfortunatly McCargo was injured). They wanted to upgrade and replace both Fletcher and McGahee, they could have kept them both if they so desired. The only player they had no chance at keeping was Nate. It will be interesting to see how he playes this year now that he has the $$$.

[Special K]

What year was he named to the probowl?

 

 

I believe he was a pro bowl alternate in 2005 and was added as an injury replacement that year.

[SHOUTBOX MONSTER!]

I believe he was a pro bowl alternate in 2005 and was added as an injury replacement that year.

 

Correct. He replaced Chris McAllister and had one pick in the game.

[tennesseeboy]

But are all question marks the same. Having a question mark at quarterback and number one wide receiver are two HUGE questionmarks we don't have now. I think the question mark between Crowell and Fletcher isn't all that much of a questionmark. The o-line looks fine as a unit, the d-line looks better (if still a small questionmark) as a unit. I understand that there are questionmarks, but the ones that are most pressing will almost certainly be addressed in the draft.

[bud8andbills]

Correct. He replaced Chris McAllister and had one pick in the game.

Just my opinion. What makes an NFL corner Pro Bowl material, or a shutdown corner? Is it tackles, sacks, interceptions, times not thrown at? Well when most people vote for the Pro Bowl they vote a name. In the AFC Nate was not the biggest name, nor had the most tackles, nor the most interceptions, you get the point. What I think made Nate look good was he was a good corner, not hreat, and Terrence McGee wasn't. If I knew faking you with a left jab 20 times got me 15 hits with the right, I'd fake you 100 times. But he is enough of a loss that I think it is a huge concern now.

[colin]

we are weaker at corner but IMO flat at secondary overall.

 

if we draft a solid young lb and anyone for the DL we are a good bit better on the front 7

 

our biggest weakness has been a horrible O, poor short yardage game, not enough production consistantly from our passing game, and an inability to control the LOS.

 

entering every single season for the past 10+ years we've been weak at LT. we have been HORRIBLE at LG since rubes left.

 

now we have a solid (and by many accounts top 5 or 6) LT, a kick ass LG, and with the kid from the raiders we have a RG as well.

 

this is the best our O has been for a while

[Flbillsfan#1]

Just my opinion. What makes an NFL corner Pro Bowl material, or a shutdown corner? Is it tackles, sacks, interceptions, times not thrown at? Well when most people vote for the Pro Bowl they vote a name. In the AFC Nate was not the biggest name, nor had the most tackles, nor the most interceptions, you get the point. What I think made Nate look good was he was a good corner, not hreat, and Terrence McGee wasn't. If I knew faking you with a left jab 20 times got me 15 hits with the right, I'd fake you 100 times. But he is enough of a loss that I think it is a huge concern now.

I did not want Nate to go either, as most here feel. He did not want to be here though, and look at the$$ he signed for just crazy. Here is a name for you, Brian Kelly of the Bucs. He is not Nate but close, and it lookes like he can be had.

[Pneumonic]

I'm not the biggest Clements supporter but anyone who deosn't believe he's a top player at the CB position in this league is simply not being objective.

 

If one were to peruse most any publication, web site, magazine. etc which tracks the top free agents of this past offseason they would find that Clements is almost unanmously rated at the top of these lists. And for good reason.

 

My biggest worry in losing Fletch is as a leader and mentor but others can fill that void I hope.

 

I don't worry about replacing Willis.

[Cornerville]

I'm not the biggest Clements supporter but anyone who deosn't believe he's a top player at the CB position in this league is simply not being objective.

 

If one were to peruse most any publication, web site, magazine. etc which tracks the top free agents of this past offseason they would find that Clements is almost unanmously rated at the top of these lists. And for good reason.

 

My biggest worry in losing Fletch is as a leader and mentor but others can fill that void I hope.

 

I don't worry about replacing Willis.

 

 

Thing is about Fletch...how much did the defense really accomplish with his leadership??

Over his tenure here as the leader, this defense IMO has looked more like a paper tiger rather then a viable force in the NFL...sure they could stop the potent offenses like Cleveland and San Francisco...but more times then not, the defense came up small in big spots.

 

I welcome the change.

[OCinBuffalo]

They accomplished nothing with Lee Evans and Jason Peters and Schobel and Losman and Whitner and Moorman and Lindell, etc., does that mean they are bad or worthless or we can do well without them?

No that means that all of those guys you listed have not been on this team very long in comparison to NC and LF-B, the veteran leadership?, the "playmakers", the guys that make the others around them "better". Wait. We aren't better, in fact we have not improved or gotten worse with those guys on the team. Time to move on! Nate Clements is not a playmaker when he can't crack the top 30 in the INT list=chuck em. Aaron Schobel is a playmaker when he is 3rd in the league in sacks= keep em. What's hard to understand about this? No one is saying to get rid of the whole team, although that is precisely what the Bills have been doing(Adams, Vincent, Milloy, Posey, Shelton, Bledsoe, the list goes on and on) for the past 2 years. These guys had their shot to be great, but most of the time were good at best. Again, time to move on.