mary owen Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 I think that if one draws a conclusion that this whole thing has been a bust for the Bills it says more about the person making that claim and their superficial evaluation of football than it says about the reality. I've seen some great arguments for and against, and I feel that your last statement is a bit uncalled for.....kinda insulting to those who do not feel the same way you do. i certainly did not come up with this subject claiming WM to be a bust. As I said, I was on the fence and posed the question for the folks here to give their OPINIONS on the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Tony Hunter was a bust, Eric Flowers was a bust. Come on man with that O-Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Tony Hunter was a bust, Eric Flowers was a bust. Come on man with that O-Line. Willis was not at all a bust, but perhaps it really was time for him to go. His production might not be that hard to duplicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 With two backs. The Bills want a guy who fits the system. Willis can't catch the ball effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I disagree. First off, I think that to make this assessment it is useful for the person to define what they mean by a "bust". To me it is a question of whether a player produced at a level equivalent to where he was drafted. Since I think that the general expectation is that a player drafted in the 1st round is going to be a first year starter (with the strong hopes he will be an immediate starter) and this is a reasonable expectation, then WM was drafted with the knowledge he would be a bust his first year but with the hopes his upside was so high that he would recover to not only be a starting NFL RB but actually become the elite RB he was slated to become before his injury. He did not achieve this elite status, but it strikes me as hyperventilating to call him a bust. In fact, since a bust means that a player did not meet expectations the failure can be either because the player did not achieve anything (Ryan Leaf for example) OR because the fan did not know football or they drank the Kool-aid of the team selling their product and their expectations were way too high. It would have been rediculous for any fan to expect him to start immediately after such a huge injury which made most people squeamish to watch. However, the Bills made a medical judgment that WM would recover from the traumatic injury to such a level he could certainly be at least a credible NFL starting RB and potentially realize the potential which made him a likely top 5 choice prior to the injury. Was he a bust? I would say no in that he did become a credible NFL starting RB. He was an average NFL starting producer but virtually all agree that at worst he was an average NFL RB, given that the conventional wisdom really was that his career as an NFL starter might well be over before it began I think it is hard to really call him a bust, If one's expectations were that he is a bust unless he became an NFL elite RB, then I tend more to question a person's football judgment that this was a likely outcome after the injury. Perhaps one might say that whether he was a bust depends more on what the Bills gave up by picking him instead of someone else at #23. Even with this equation, I do not think you can call him a bust like one would call Mike Williams a bust. The Bills had to cut Mike Williams and get zero compensation for him. The Bills ate multiple years of millions of dollars in bonus money when they cut him. This made MW a bust. On the other hand, WM returned the Bills 3 draft picks including 2 first day choice for him when he stopped being a Bill. This is a long way from being a bust in my book. If one wants to rail at this choice because we already had Travis Henry on the roster, thats fine as this is another reality to contemplate However, if you want to add this factor into the mix then one should also add in that another first day draft choice that the Bills received as part of the WM situation. Even if one wants to say that this is part of giving up a 2003 1st draft choice to get Bledsoe this comes out in the wash at worse as TDs PP manueverings was part of getting the 1st for WM and in total the bottomline is that the draft choice trade not only got us a productive 2002 from out QB for one year for free but overall the choice has now morphed into 3 more picks. I think that if one draws a conclusion that this whole thing has been a bust for the Bills it says more about the person making that claim and their superficial evaluation of football than it says about the reality. That's good to know. You're welcome to form your own opinion on the matter. BTW, I do appreciate the insult in the final paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary owen Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 Tony Hunter was a bust, Eric Flowers was a bust. Come on man with that O-Line. again, I think Willis' best season in Buffalo came behind a worse line than last year. The passing game improved and our main back didn't. Hard to blame the line when the back doesn't study the schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 my neighbor in the next cube says...."You gotta admit...he was a BUST!" to which my quick reply was "Well, you would know all about busts, being a Browns fan.." after the laughter subsided, i was left pondering his assessment of Willis. I'm on the fence about it, but hey....he was a 1st round pick.... thoughts? We got three years of middle-of-the-road play out of him, plus a couple of third round draft picks. That'd be reasonable for a guy picked in the second round. For a first round pick, it's mildly disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Middle or the road, His first year is when he was stiff arming everyone. Remember the Seattle game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 We got three years of middle-of-the-road play out of him, plus a couple of third round draft picks. That'd be reasonable for a guy picked in the second round. For a first round pick, it's mildly disappointing. Holy mothefuc#ing s#it! A Holcomb's Arm post that is reasonable and pretty close to spot on, IMO. I'm freakin' speachless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 We got three years of middle-of-the-road play out of him, plus a couple of third round draft picks. That'd be reasonable for a guy picked in the second round. For a first round pick, it's mildly disappointing. Is middle of the road equivalent to the mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorp15 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 If you take away the 2 Jet Games- Willis had 715 yards on 217 carries for a 3.29 Yards per Carry, 59 yards per game. Also fumbled 4 times He had 1 year left on his contract, which he wanted to renegotiate so that he could be paid as an "elite back " even though he finished 24th in rushing in 2006. Marv was able to trade him and get 2 - 3rd round picks and a 7th round pick !! Marv can no longer be considered a "high character guy" as he has robbed the Ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Fub Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 The Willis draft pick only made sense if he turned into a superstar RB. We already had a decent RB in Travis Henry. Willis turn out to be a decent back. He never regained the form of his Miami years. I think that knee injury killed his career. I think our record would have been the same the last couple of years with Willis or with Henry. So yeah, I think he's a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetbaboo Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I think that if one draws a conclusion that this whole thing has been a bust for the Bills it says more about the person making that claim and their superficial evaluation of football than it says about the reality. Pot, meet kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorp15 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Too bad he wasn't a good receiver in Cleveland. That game still pisses me off....even more than Homerun Throwup. Are you referring to the "Forward Lateral" Game ? This is the only appropriate reference. They never show the overhead shot on the highlights. Joe Theismann taking out the marker and showing how the ball was in back of the line when thrown and caught in front of the line. Theismann saying, " Don't get to excited, that one is coming back. "It is a forward lateral" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Are you referring to the "Forward Lateral" Game ? This is the only appropriate reference. I like to call it: Homejob Throwforward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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