Beerball Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 He could be a Jim Plunkett type. Plunkett had a nightmare few years with the patriots and then sat the bench behind LaMonica at Oakland, regrouped, and became an exceptionally good qb for the raiders. Don't know if there is anyone willing to "rehabilitate" a shell shocked qb or who can afford to invest the time and effort in this free agency era. I think a fifth round pick to keep him as a backup and long shot investment might work for some team...but certainly not the bills, where Losman looks like a good long term bet and Nalls is the reserve in training. Maybe the Jets as a backup to Pennington? I suspect its just too much of a risk, though and it may be time for Carr to get on with his life. Stabler, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Actually, Carolina made it to the NFC championship game in their 3rd year with Kerry Collins as the QB, who I believe was the 1st pick overall in the draft. No, he was #5 pick overall in that draft. But you're more right than I am. However, my point was that the first pick in a team's existence should not be a #1 QB, and Carolina didn't exactly prove otherwise. They won with good management and not on the arm of a #1 QB. Collins' numbers were pedestrian in that NFCC year: 204-364 / 56.0% / 2454yds / 14TDs / 9INTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 The Bears should take a look. They could easily give up Grossman, Griese, or Orton (or two of them) plus maybe a 5th rounder to get Carr. Kubiak has a relationship with Griese also... I think Carr would be a pretty good fit in Chicago...Decent OLine, decent run game, a defense that will keep you in every game. Carr got sacked a ton in Houston- some his fault, some the O-line's fault, but mainly because they had such a bad team, they got down early and had to throw...Defensive ends were pinning their ears back...He'd be playing with a lead most of the time in Chicago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 The Bears should take a look. They could easily give up Grossman, Griese, or Orton (or two of them) plus maybe a 5th rounder to get Carr. Kubiak has a relationship with Griese also... I think Carr would be a pretty good fit in Chicago...Decent OLine, decent run game, a defense that will keep you in every game. Carr got sacked a ton in Houston- some his fault, some the O-line's fault, but mainly because they had such a bad team, they got down early and had to throw...Defensive ends were pinning their ears back...He'd be playing with a lead most of the time in Chicago... Pretty good point. Grossman's got one year left and thinks he's worth more money. That's a joke as the guy has gotten paid for next to nothing for half of his contract, and for being the textbook definition of caretaker QB for most of this season, except for when it counted most. Carr wouldn't be a bad option for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I'm not sure why people make so many excuses about Carr. Among them I've heard are these: 1) No o-line 2) No legitimate #2 receiver 3) No star RB 4) No change-of-pace RB 5) No great TE target 6) No prototypical slot guy 7) No help from the defense You can make the same excuses for just about every QB in the league. No team has every component in place. Not many teams have NONE of those things, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Not many teams have NONE of those things, either. Their TE Owen Daniels is pretty solid. They don't have much else, though. Carr is not great right now but I would take him over several other QBs in this league, including one who started the Super Bowl as S&J mentioned. He'd also be better than those who were QBing the: Raiders Redskins Vikings Lions Dolphins off the top of my head. One other thought -- a team he might be a great fit for would be the Jets. He could back up Pennington for one season, learn the ropes, earn some backseat cash and take a little rest from 5 seasons of taking a beating, and come in comfortably to a system that's solid with a great offensive line, and that will likely be adding a premier running back soon. If I were Carr I would take a discount offer to end up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Pretty good point. Grossman's got one year left and thinks he's worth more money. That's a joke as the guy has gotten paid for next to nothing for half of his contract, and for being the textbook definition of caretaker QB for most of this season, except for when it counted most. Carr wouldn't be a bad option for them. That is one of the most absurd posts. Beginning of the season Grossman and his offense were on a roll. Even against the Bills they would have scored more than the 40 points they did, as they sat Grossman and put Griesse in in the final quarter... In those 8 or 9 games, Grossman made huge plays in the passing game...... Then there was the game against Arizona that really turned him aside....He struggled from there on and with people second guessing put just so much pressure on him..... Then when the chips were down, he came up with some big plays in both the playoff games to take the Bears to the super bowl..... He did not have a good game in the superbowl....But then so did the rest of the team....as they blew a 14-6 1st half lead to lose the game..... To call him a caretaker of the offense is plain idotic....Many teams with QB issues would love to have him....If JP had not come through last year, everyone on this board will be clamoring to make that trade with the bears to get Grossman..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Tough when your OL cant protect you. Texans are always tops in the league for QB sacks. Granted some could be the fault of Carr, but....OL is more to blame then Carr. They have never had much of a running game. They have had one decent WR with Andre Johnson. The defense has not been all that great. This could be a good player on a bad team type of thing......... I think with the right team Carr would be a decent QB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Having your confidence shot by being pounded a billion times by opposing defenses has a funny way of manifesting itself in bad play on the field. He needs a fresh start and an organization that will actually put the talent around him (and not just a WR) that will help him succeed. Imagine if the Colts would've given Manning the piece of crap line Carr has had to deal w/ from the beginning of his career. Not saying Manning's stats would be identical, but he certainly would've seen a huge dropoff. Now, all of that said, I have seen Carr take more sacks than he should and make some terrible throws also. I just wonder how much of that can be attributed to knowing you'll have to run for your life on just about every play. Right on. We don't know if Carr will ever be a good QB, because we haven't seen him play in front of an actual NFL-quality line yet. Some good stuff from the crew at HoustonProFootball.com, who have seen far more of Carr than any of us have... Upon Further Review: The Revolving Door Spins Again - history of Texans' LT position"Carr may eventually get used to the revolving door that keeps hitting him in the back. It must get tiresome. David Carr is likely the oldest 27-year-old quarterback in pro football history. Hard to imagine anyone else withstanding such abuse." Quick Slant: On Notice"Steve McKinney, Chester Pitts and Fred Weary Let’s be perfectly fair - Carr’s not the only guy who’s been here all five years of the team’s existence: Now in its fifth smash year of sucking (!), McKinney, Pitts and Weary have all been part of the worst stretch of offensive line play in the entire history of football. So if we’re jettisoning Carr because he represents the franchise’s continued ineptness, then let’s hold equally-tenured players in units not succeeding to the same standard, and that means you three." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 That is one of the most absurd posts. Beginning of the season Grossman and his offense were on a roll. Even against the Bills they would have scored more than the 40 points they did, as they sat Grossman and put Griesse in in the final quarter... In those 8 or 9 games, Grossman made huge plays in the passing game...... Then there was the game against Arizona that really turned him aside....He struggled from there on and with people second guessing put just so much pressure on him..... Then when the chips were down, he came up with some big plays in both the playoff games to take the Bears to the super bowl..... He did not have a good game in the superbowl....But then so did the rest of the team....as they blew a 14-6 1st half lead to lose the game..... To call him a caretaker of the offense is plain idotic....Many teams with QB issues would love to have him....If JP had not come through last year, everyone on this board will be clamoring to make that trade with the bears to get Grossman..... I couldn't agree more with this post. I don't understand the hatred of Rex Grossman. And that's my point about David Carr. Carr plays terrible for 4 years and never gets ripped. Grossman plays great with 23 TD passes in his first full season as a starter and Chicago wants to run him out of town. Rex proved he can make all the throws. He's a younger Brett Farve type player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 That is one of the most absurd posts. Beginning of the season Grossman and his offense were on a roll. Even against the Bills they would have scored more than the 40 points they did, as they sat Grossman and put Griesse in in the final quarter... In those 8 or 9 games, Grossman made huge plays in the passing game...... Then there was the game against Arizona that really turned him aside....He struggled from there on and with people second guessing put just so much pressure on him..... Then when the chips were down, he came up with some big plays in both the playoff games to take the Bears to the super bowl..... He did not have a good game in the superbowl....But then so did the rest of the team....as they blew a 14-6 1st half lead to lose the game..... To call him a caretaker of the offense is plain idotic....Many teams with QB issues would love to have him....If JP had not come through last year, everyone on this board will be clamoring to make that trade with the bears to get Grossman..... Look at his games from October 16th on and you tell me if you'd be clammoring to make a trade for the guy. Try watching him play instead of watching a Sportscenter highlight of his one nice pass. Throws off his back foot, horrible decisions, completely fearful of blitzes, injury prone...The Bears were winning in spite of him...Their incredible defense got them out of many bad situations that Grossman put them in... I'd take Carr in a heartbeat over him, and I don't think any team in their right mind would feel comfortable with Rex Grossman as their franchise's future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Stabler, no? Stabler, yes. Plunkett was actually out of football for a year before signing with Oakland in '79, the Snake's last season there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 That is one of the most absurd posts. Beginning of the season Grossman and his offense were on a roll. Even against the Bills they would have scored more than the 40 points they did, as they sat Grossman and put Griesse in in the final quarter... In those 8 or 9 games, Grossman made huge plays in the passing game...... Then there was the game against Arizona that really turned him aside....He struggled from there on and with people second guessing put just so much pressure on him..... Then when the chips were down, he came up with some big plays in both the playoff games to take the Bears to the super bowl..... He did not have a good game in the superbowl....But then so did the rest of the team....as they blew a 14-6 1st half lead to lose the game..... To call him a caretaker of the offense is plain idotic....Many teams with QB issues would love to have him....If JP had not come through last year, everyone on this board will be clamoring to make that trade with the bears to get Grossman..... I call bull sh--. He beat up on Green Bay, Minnesota and the Lions in weeks 1-3. The Central was truly horrible this year. He could have lost them the game at Minnesota with two INTs. After this gift first month of the season against poor in-division competition, he posted a pedestrian completion percentage the rest of the season, so yes, most of the season. He put it in the hands of Arizona defenders four times. Need I remind you of how bad Arizona was this year? He rebounded to beat San Fran, yes, but he was worse than people are remembering in the New Orleans game, which he only won because the Saints kept turning the ball over. Grossman had some success this year, yes, but it was because the pressure was taken off of him by a good line and a good defense, not to mention a running game that his coach abandoned completely in the Super Bowl. For him to think he deserves a raise after a season and a half of average play on a five-year contract is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Another disappointment from the 2002 draft Dunno. Couch got thrown in with some pretty poor clubs. There was an article in the local paper here, recounting the history of the resurrected Cleveland franchise's injury woes - over a 100 on IR since 1999. Plus little if any running game. Acquired FAs and 1st rounders dropping like flies. I don't think Couch would have become one of the few elite, but had the size and skills to do well outside of the CLE situations. Aside, some speculation about CLE and ND's Quinn. I think they would be foolish to give up on Charlie Frye...or Coach Crennel for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Ranchod Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Stats aren't everything, but didn't Carr lead the league in completion % last year? Doesn't mean he's the best QB or anything, but that's not something you accomplish by fluke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) Stats aren't everything, but didn't Carr lead the league in completion % last year? Doesn't mean he's the best QB or anything, but that's not something you accomplish by fluke. Huh? 54.6% does not lead ANY league in completion percentage. He did lead the league with five games where he compiled a passer rating under 40...including three games under 10....But teams are clammoring for him.... EDIT: MY BAD, THOUGHT YOU WERE REFERRING TO GROSSMAN...YES CARR LED THE LEAGUE IN % Edited February 15, 2007 by smokinandjokin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Right on. We don't know if Carr will ever be a good QB, because we haven't seen him play in front of an actual NFL-quality line yet. Some good stuff from the crew at HoustonProFootball.com, who have seen far more of Carr than any of us have... Upon Further Review: The Revolving Door Spins Again - history of Texans' LT position"Carr may eventually get used to the revolving door that keeps hitting him in the back. It must get tiresome. David Carr is likely the oldest 27-year-old quarterback in pro football history. Hard to imagine anyone else withstanding such abuse." I certainly do not envy David Carr. The oldest 27 year old QB? If he's not, I'd like to know who is. Yeesh. Quick Slant: On Notice"Steve McKinney, Chester Pitts and Fred Weary Let’s be perfectly fair - Carr’s not the only guy who’s been here all five years of the team’s existence: Now in its fifth smash year of sucking (!), McKinney, Pitts and Weary have all been part of the worst stretch of offensive line play in the entire history of football. So if we’re jettisoning Carr because he represents the franchise’s continued ineptness, then let’s hold equally-tenured players in units not succeeding to the same standard, and that means you three." I remember reading how Pitts has played every offensive snap for the Texans (going into last season). How wonderful for their QBs, as Pitts is very Mike Gandy-like (not worth much as an OT, adequate @ OG). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Carr is a fine QB who has become a little gun shy for good reason. This should be fairly obvious to most who understand the game of football if you watch him play. If he's being viewed as the scapegoat now that doesn't surprise me at all considering the tendency for fans and media alike to give Qb's both more credit, and more blame at times than they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 the texans have to be one of the dumbest teams out there. first passing on Bush, now wanting to trade carr. They gave Carr a HUGE roster bonus at the begining of last season. if they didnt like him then they should have cut him loose bfore then. so they give him a ton of money (eating up even more cap space) and now 1 season later want to drop him? Carr is one of the few stars on that team. They have a good QB/WR team going and they want to screw that up? ive watched some texans games, thier offense (with carr) is what keeps that team in the game, even with their horrable O-Line. With my luck he will be traded to the Miami dolphins for a 5th rounder and become a damn probowler. people call him a bust because he was the 1st overall pick and cant get his team to the playoffs. but thats not all his fault. he was drafted by an expansion team. they aquired good WRs but there is only so much you can do with out at least a decent O-Line or defense. Fans are tired of seeing their team lose and it looks like they are willing to use one of their best players as a scapegoat. Their GM and head coach should be balmed. where are the quality FA signings? have they even tried to get an O-Line? its just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 people call him a bust because he was the 1st overall pick and cant get his team to the playoffs. but thats not all his fault. he was drafted by an expansion team. they aquired good WRs They did? They have one excellent receiver in Andre Johnson. I'm not sure who else at this rate is or was good. Corey Bradford? Jabar Gaffney? Jermaine Lewis? A declining Moulds? Jerome Mathis? Point being he hasn't been working with much besides Johnson. Probably the better point is that whomever the receivers were it was awfully difficult for Carr to find time to throw to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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