Why is Retaining Clements So Unrealistic?

[BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land]

We're 40 million under the cap. If we don't use it on him, we'll have to overpay somebody else who isn't as good. There are way more buyers than sellers for Cornerbacks this year.

[Dibs]

We're 40 million under the cap. If we don't use it on him, we'll have to overpay somebody else who isn't as good. There are way more buyers than sellers for Cornerbacks this year.

As I just wrote in another thread......& I'm no expert....but I'm pretty sure this is correct.....

The Cover 2 D we use does not require the CBs to be exceptional cover-corners to excel(as a D). It makes little sense to pay top dollar for a player with great WR blanketing skills if the defensive scheme we use calls upon this expensive skill less than other defensive systems will.

It looks like Fletcher goes.....& there are some very good LBs in FA this year. More importantly, there are several very good OGs in FA. I'd be far happier if we got 2 of Dielman, Stinchcomb & Davis......a top LB....maybe Ian Scott for DT.....& a decent zone-D CB for our money.

I won't be unhappy if we keep NC though. It obviously can't hurt having such a good man-cover CB.

[Frez]

We're 40 million under the cap. If we don't use it on him, we'll have to overpay somebody else who isn't as good. There are way more buyers than sellers for Cornerbacks this year.

 

 

I have to agree. Lock him up for 5 more years on the Buffalo Bills! Let's not waste a draft pick on a CB in the first round trying to replace Nate Clements.

[zow2]

We always hear that the team just "needs to fill a few holes" to be a contender. What's frustrating is that if you lose guys like Clements and Fletcher...you will be darn lucky to get guys to replace them and then you STILL need to fill those "holes" with quality upgrades. It's a vicious circle and the Bills are constantly chasing their tails so to speak. They need to keep the quality guys and release the dead wood. Buffalo cannot convince the superstars to come here nor will they pay them. It's vital for the Bills to keep the stars that they have.

[inkman]

Top 25 NFL Player Salaries for 2005-2006

1. Vick, Michael $ 23,102,750 Atlanta Falcons

2. Hasselbeck, Matt $ 19,005,280 Seattle Seahawks

3. Pace, Orlando $ 18,000,000 St. Louis Rams

4. Jones, Walter $ 17,701,320 Seattle Seahawks

5. Brady, Tom $ 15,654,180 New England Patriots

6. Bailey, Champ $ 13,507,625 Denver Broncos

7. Smoot, Fred $ 12,300,000 Minnesota Vikings

8. Rolle, Samari $ 12,000,990 Baltimore Ravens

9. Henry, Anthony $ 11,604,840 Dallas Cowboys

10. Ogden, Jonathan $ 10,665,550 Baltimore Ravens

11. Stroud, Marcus $ 10,640,000 Jacksonville Jaguars

12. Woodson, Charles $ 10,537,000 Oakland Raiders

13. Baxter, Gary $ 10,510,698 Cleveland Browns

14. Bulluck, Keith $ 10,251,980 Tennessee Titans

15. Johnson, Rudi $ 10,250,000 Cincinnati Bengals

16. Samuels, Chris $ 9,550,000 Washington Redskins

17. Favre, Brett $ 9,500,000 Green Bay Packers

18. Roethlisberger, Ben $ 9,498,840 Pittsburgh Steelers

19. Lucas, Ken $ 9,400,000 Carolina Panthers

20. Muhammad, Muhsin $ 9,335,407 Chicago Bears

21. Manning, Eli $ 9,305,000 New York Giants

22. Rivera, Marco $ 9,130,280 Dallas Cowboys

23. Ferguson, Jason $ 9,129,290 Dallas Cowboys

24. Wahle, Mike $ 9,100,000 Carolina Panthers

25. James, Edgerrin $ 9,081,000 Indianapolis Colts

 

 

This doesn't make sense to me. To put Nate into this category would not help the Bills long term. How many of those guys are actually worth it? Champ Bailey? Maybe?

[Bill from NYC]

We're 40 million under the cap. If we don't use it on him, we'll have to overpay somebody else who isn't as good. There are way more buyers than sellers for Cornerbacks this year.

 

I can only speculate, but my guess is that he wants out of Buffalo.

It also raises an unanswered question.......DID Marv and Ralph attempt to extend his contract during the 06 season? If so, he turned down security for himself and his family. It turned out to be the right move mind you, but it was quite a risk imo.

 

My guess (hope I'm wrong) is that Nate has spent enough time for his liking in WNY. As a free agent, he will probably be able to pick and choose from multiple offers. He is THAT good in a group of UFAs who are THAT bad.

 

The question to be asked imo is why on earth did Marv make this idiotic promise to not use the tag on him? In a small group of UFAs, we could have got a 1st round pick for him, or so one would think.

This move hurt the Buffalo Bills.

[Frez]

Top 25 NFL Player Salaries for 2005-2006

1. Vick, Michael $ 23,102,750 Atlanta Falcons

2. Hasselbeck, Matt $ 19,005,280 Seattle Seahawks

3. Pace, Orlando $ 18,000,000 St. Louis Rams

4. Jones, Walter $ 17,701,320 Seattle Seahawks

5. Brady, Tom $ 15,654,180 New England Patriots

6. Bailey, Champ $ 13,507,625 Denver Broncos

7. Smoot, Fred $ 12,300,000 Minnesota Vikings

8. Rolle, Samari $ 12,000,990 Baltimore Ravens

9. Henry, Anthony $ 11,604,840 Dallas Cowboys

10. Ogden, Jonathan $ 10,665,550 Baltimore Ravens

11. Stroud, Marcus $ 10,640,000 Jacksonville Jaguars

12. Woodson, Charles $ 10,537,000 Oakland Raiders

13. Baxter, Gary $ 10,510,698 Cleveland Browns

14. Bulluck, Keith $ 10,251,980 Tennessee Titans

15. Johnson, Rudi $ 10,250,000 Cincinnati Bengals

16. Samuels, Chris $ 9,550,000 Washington Redskins

17. Favre, Brett $ 9,500,000 Green Bay Packers

18. Roethlisberger, Ben $ 9,498,840 Pittsburgh Steelers

19. Lucas, Ken $ 9,400,000 Carolina Panthers

20. Muhammad, Muhsin $ 9,335,407 Chicago Bears

21. Manning, Eli $ 9,305,000 New York Giants

22. Rivera, Marco $ 9,130,280 Dallas Cowboys

23. Ferguson, Jason $ 9,129,290 Dallas Cowboys

24. Wahle, Mike $ 9,100,000 Carolina Panthers

25. James, Edgerrin $ 9,081,000 Indianapolis Colts

This doesn't make sense to me. To put Nate into this category would not help the Bills long term. How many of those guys are actually worth it? Champ Bailey? Maybe?

 

 

Are you suggesting we draft a CB or sign one in free agency?

[inkman]

I'm suggesting we spend accordingly on a CB. If it's drafting or FA, spending (or a cap hit of) 10-15 million a year, escalating throughout a contract isn't worth it in most cases.

[Bill from NYC]

I'm suggesting we spend accordingly on a CB. If it's drafting or FA, spending (or a cap hit of) 10-15 million a year, escalating throughout a contract isn't worth it in most cases.

 

I am of the strong opinion that those numbers include the total of their signing bonuses. Woodson was a Franchise Player for the 2nd consecutive season and was paid at the 120% rate iirc.

I don't think that it's as bad as it looks on that lit.

 

Nate is better than most of those guys and will be paid as much or more.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Top 25 NFL Player Salaries for 2005-2006

1. Vick, Michael $ 23,102,750 Atlanta Falcons

2. Hasselbeck, Matt $ 19,005,280 Seattle Seahawks

3. Pace, Orlando $ 18,000,000 St. Louis Rams

4. Jones, Walter $ 17,701,320 Seattle Seahawks

5. Brady, Tom $ 15,654,180 New England Patriots

6. Bailey, Champ $ 13,507,625 Denver Broncos

7. Smoot, Fred $ 12,300,000 Minnesota Vikings

8. Rolle, Samari $ 12,000,990 Baltimore Ravens

9. Henry, Anthony $ 11,604,840 Dallas Cowboys

10. Ogden, Jonathan $ 10,665,550 Baltimore Ravens

11. Stroud, Marcus $ 10,640,000 Jacksonville Jaguars

12. Woodson, Charles $ 10,537,000 Oakland Raiders

13. Baxter, Gary $ 10,510,698 Cleveland Browns

14. Bulluck, Keith $ 10,251,980 Tennessee Titans

15. Johnson, Rudi $ 10,250,000 Cincinnati Bengals

16. Samuels, Chris $ 9,550,000 Washington Redskins

17. Favre, Brett $ 9,500,000 Green Bay Packers

18. Roethlisberger, Ben $ 9,498,840 Pittsburgh Steelers

19. Lucas, Ken $ 9,400,000 Carolina Panthers

20. Muhammad, Muhsin $ 9,335,407 Chicago Bears

21. Manning, Eli $ 9,305,000 New York Giants

22. Rivera, Marco $ 9,130,280 Dallas Cowboys

23. Ferguson, Jason $ 9,129,290 Dallas Cowboys

24. Wahle, Mike $ 9,100,000 Carolina Panthers

25. James, Edgerrin $ 9,081,000 Indianapolis Colts

This doesn't make sense to me. To put Nate into this category would not help the Bills long term. How many of those guys are actually worth it? Champ Bailey? Maybe?

This is probably the correct context to put this in. Which of these guys is worth the money they're being paid, to the team that's paying them? Among the CBs, you could say maybe Bailey, maybe Lucas, perhaps Rolle. Big stretches all. I think aside from the premiere LTs, of which perhaps 5 exist at any given time, few great teams are locking up that much money in one guy. In fact, I'm floored that Peyton Manning is not on this list.

 

So, are we prepared to put so much resources into one CB position for such a long time? Will the deal we sign with him now look reasonable in 4 years? With the Tampa-2 is he a luxury we can afford with concerns on the D-Line and the right side/depth on the O-Line, LB? Could Youboty fill in capably (remember, Asante Samuel was a young liability the Pats were able to afford at one time)? I'm glad this isn't my job to decide.

[inkman]

I think we'd be better off throwing money at bigger, impact players like Freeney and Briggs. I'd feel much better about investing in them than "the playmaker".

[RuntheDamnBall]

I think we'd be better off throwing money at bigger, impact players like Freeney and Briggs. I'd feel much better about investing in them than "the playmaker".

No way we get Freeney, but if this were to somehow happen it would be the offseason delivered from God. And I would never say a bad thing abouut Ralph Wilson or Levy again.

 

Just did some looking up. Freeney grew up in Bloomfield, Conn. and obviously, went to 'Cuse. Buffalo would be closer to home (unfortunately, Foxboro might be closer, though if there's one thing you can say it's that NE doesn't often throw the cash at big-time guys like this). A smaller edge rusher and a disruptive force. Would seem to fit in with what we do and we do have former Indy personnel in our the D coaching staff, do we not? Man, please, Marv. Does he play the same side as Schobel? Would this be an issue?

[BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land]

No way we get Freeney, but if this were to somehow happen it would be the offseason delivered from God. And I would never say a bad thing abouut Ralph Wilson or Levy again.

How exactly does Freeney help stop the run? This team was pretty good rushing the passer, they need run stuffers....which Freeney ain't.

[inkman]

No way we get Freeney, but if this were to somehow happen it would be the offseason delivered from God. And I would never say a bad thing abouut Ralph Wilson or Levy again.

The fact that he and Schobel play the same position all but makes this moot but it's still nice to dream.

[tennesseeboy]

I suspect if we match offers elsewhere Clements will stay. He is the leader of the defense and knows who he is playing with. He can go to the Redskins or Arizona but if the money is the same why would he take the risk of ending up like Moulds or Price or for that matter Winfield playing in a new system that can make life miserable. I'm not a Pollyanna and know its mostly about the Benjamins...but if we put up the Benjamins he could do a lot worse than stay here.

[inkman]

How exactly does Freeney help stop the run? This team was pretty good rushing the passer, they need run stuffers....which Freeney ain't.

He doesn't but the Buffalo Bills are not going to spend big money or draft a DT real high. They just aquired three last season and I can't see them allocating any more resources to the DT position.

[RuntheDamnBall]

How exactly does Freeney help stop the run? This team was pretty good rushing the passer, they need run stuffers....which Freeney ain't.

They were pretty good at times. I'm not saying we should make a run at Freeney at the expense of DT help (and at DT we have a MAJOR, MAJOR question mark in what the return and development of McCargo means to that rotation). However, if you have the opportunity to get a guy who puts the fear of God into a QB and he could make the switch, why not? The question of making the switch is the much bigger issue, IMO. It makes him not a need, but a luxury.

[inkman]

I suspect if we match offers elsewhere Clements will stay. He is the leader of the defense and knows who he is playing with. He can go to the Redskins or Arizona but if the money is the same why would he take the risk of ending up like Moulds or Price or for that matter Winfield playing in a new system that can make life miserable. I'm not a Pollyanna and know its mostly about the Benjamins...but if we put up the Benjamins he could do a lot worse than stay here.

Why would the Bills lock up 50-70 million dollars with a cap hit somewhere near the $15,000,000 escalating to something like $25,000,000 at the end of his contract when he's no longer the player he was?

[RuntheDamnBall]

Why would the Bills lock up 50-70 million dollars with a cap hit somewhere near the $15,000,000 escalating to something like $25,000,000 at the end of his contract when he's no longer the player he was?

Only if that money looks like chump change when adjusted for league / economic / salary inflation. It's a risk.

[BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land]

He doesn't but the Buffalo Bills are not going to spend big money or draft a DT real high. They just aquired three last season and I can't see them allocating any more resources to the DT position.

I don't think they will either. They will go after a LB with more size than Fletcher who can help around the line of scrimmage. The MLB from KC Kawika Mitchell interests me. He's has 2 back to back 100+ tackle seasons, he's young, and he's taller than Fletch (6'1"/243) vs (a liberal 5'10", 245).