Dr. Trooth Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Well, we've got a pretty bad team. Very reminscent of when GW came on as coach. You have an entirely new regime. How can we expect an instant winner after another roster purge reminiscent of the dawn of the TD reign? Aren't many of us expecting way too much out of this team this year? JP, although not a rookie, has just now reached the equivalent of one full season as a starter with a team that is in serious flux. So, why should the kid get whacked mercilessly by the fans, when his offense has had a total overhaul, an Oline that is still subpar, and at the skill positions, except for Evans, with subpar performers (I especially include McGahee in that group). Let's examine this a little closer. Adams, Milloy, Anderson, Moulds, Vincent, Posey, Baker, Campbell, Teague, Edwards all either starters or saw significant playing time last season are gone. But the defense is considerably better from a year ago. Offense has definitely taken a step backwards from a year ago... then again, the offense takes more time to bring up to speed than a defense. However, this team is headed in the right direction. This team is either the youngest or second youngest in the league... and it will get even younger next year. I don't recall ever hitting the mother load in a draft like the Bills pulled of last year. All 8 draft picks made the team. Six of the 8 draft picks have started at one point this year. McCargo and Youboty, the only two that have not started, could potentially end up starting next year. This is pretty amazing in itself. This bodes well for next year. You have to be excited about the upcoming draft and free agency. If we accept that Peters and Pennington are the answer at tackles, then what the Bills lack is perhaps a guard, center, top flight RB, and top flight WR on offense. On defense, the Bills could use a Big DT a pass rusher... in the form of a DE or OLB. I see the Bills passing on Fletcher this year and continuing their youth movement and TKO moving to MLB... they get more size and don't lose any speed. Obviously, Nate will be history. I see Kiwaukee Thomas taking over and eventially Youboty claiming that spot. But, I still think they will ned to aquire some depth at safety and CB. The Biggest single position that they need to upgrade is RB. Willis is a pseudo pounder... no speed, no elusiveness, no big play ability. He'll also be in a contract year and he thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. No way Ralph will give him a hefty pay raise... he's simply done nothing to deserve it. I don't think there is a franchise runner in this draft, but if there is, the Bills will take him with a 5 or 6 pick unless there's someone better on the board. But, either way, I'll tell you... the more I see this Michael Turner in SD the more I like him. He goes 5'10" 235 has power and speed... along with a 6.0 yard per carry average over 3 years. He's had two or three runs of over 70 yards, so we know he can take it to the house.... he may be a vialble option in FA. The Bills still need a home run at WR... they won't find a Colston like N.O. did. They'll have to draft high ar find a worthy FA. All of this taken into consideration, I think the Bills are headed in the right direction. They've got a lot of $$$ under the salary cap...so maybe they lock up some of the younger guys for some time, bring in a couple of high end FAs, and have another 'over the top draft'. I gotta say things may look bad this season... but the "Big Picture" looks bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardy Pyle Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Applause from the Peanut Gallery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdubs Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 great post! great to see that glass half full mentality this board is so badly lacking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 ...Let's examine this a little closer. ...All of this taken into consideration, I think the Bills are headed in the right direction. They've got a lot of $$$ under the salary cap...so maybe they lock up some of the younger guys for some time, bring in a couple of high end FAs, and have another 'over the top draft'. I gotta say things may look bad this season... but the "Big Picture" looks bright. 838721[/snapback] Seems to be 180 degrees from your 11/14 post... http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=55147 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1011 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 RBs are a dime a dozen. What is needed (and your insights by and large I agree with) is 2 solid guards (unless we re-sign Gandy), and depth/starter at RT. Any RB pretty much gets yards with a good O-line. Maybe the O-line is adequate and our QB is making the O-line worse than it is? No matter what the QB situation needs the most emphasis. With no real sense of time in the NFL in terms of time in the pocket we are screwed with JP right now. I have lost my faith in him for no other reason than his mental ability on the field. The guy has all world talent in his arm and feet, but no mental awareness of the game, which is far more important than the greatest tools in the world (e.g. Brees vs. Leaf) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Seems to 180 degrees from your 11/14 post... http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=55147 838867[/snapback] He's listening to the guy on his right shoulder today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 RBs are a dime a dozen. What is needed (and your insights by and large I agree with) is 2 solid guards (unless we re-sign Gandy), and depth/starter at RT. Any RB pretty much gets yards with a good O-line. Maybe the O-line is adequate and our QB is making the O-line worse than it is? No matter what the QB situation needs the most emphasis. With no real sense of time in the NFL in terms of time in the pocket we are screwed with JP right now. I have lost my faith in him for no other reason than his mental ability on the field. The guy has all world talent in his arm and feet, but no mental awareness of the game, which is far more important than the greatest tools in the world (e.g. Brees vs. Leaf) 838951[/snapback] I agree. We have to address the o-line first and should make a decision i the next four or five weeks as to whether we need to be looking at another qb. That being said I think we are heading in the right direction. And stuckin, remember that I was NOT a fan of DJ when he was hired, but I think he knows what we need and will be addressing it. His reworking of the defense is a really positive move. I'm still hoping JP shows us something in the next few weeks, but I'm starting to wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Get rid of Fletcher? Make Kiwaukee Thomas a starter after Nate Leaves? I'd rather see Fletcher playing CB then Kiwaukee Thomas, and I don't want to see Fletcher playing CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Seems to 180 degrees from your 11/14 post... http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=55147 838867[/snapback] Damn Multiple personality disorders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 He's listening to the guy on his right shoulder today 838958[/snapback] ...that paints quite the image... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 Seems to be 180 degrees from your 11/14 post... blink.gif I would not say so at all. Besides... as I prefaced the pos... "I've been Thinking". Most of what I said then is true... lack of talent, mostly offense. The offensive line is bad and needs c, g if the two tackles are in place now. WR needs a #1 and we desparately need a RB. The defense needs help too, but the 8 for 8 draft the tam had last year is encouraging and hopefully it can be repeated. FA will also be a factor... and I still stand by my "say no to Brady Quinn" implication. DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER... address this specific post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I would not say so at all. Besides... as I prefaced the pos... "I've been Thinking". Most of what I said then is true... lack of talent, mostly offense. The offensive line is bad and needs c, g if the two tackles are in place now. WR needs a #1 and we desparately need a RB. The defense needs help too, but the 8 for 8 draft the tam had last year is encouraging and hopefully it can be repeated. FA will also be a factor... and I still stand by my "say no to Brady Quinn" implication. DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER... address this specific post 839110[/snapback] There was no messenger - 'twas your posts, your words. If someone employed you or forced you to post, tell me. And I certainly won't spent time answering the perfunctory demand you use as a deflection mechanism for your disparate postings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 There was no messenger - 'twas your posts, your words. If someone employed you or forced you to post, tell me. And I certainly won't spent time answering the perfunctory demand you use as a deflection mechanism for your disparate postings... 839128[/snapback] [/quote Cincy... biteth me... and read not my posts. please, and thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Cincy... biteth me... and read not my posts. please, and thank you. 839135[/snapback] Dear Dr. Trooth, Well, I seldom do read them, truth be told. So you are pretty much safe there. I admit to being occasionally curious to see what you come up with next, and what level of petulancy you will bring to bear. You've certainly taken time in the past to tell us how unknowledgable we are. Here I suppose I should thank you for the admonitions, but please forgive my lack of awe in the revelations of the Trooth. Your Pal, stuckincincy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 RBs are a dime a dozen.838951[/snapback] Really tired of hearing this. So without further adu The LIST OF NFL STARTING RBS, AND WHERE THEY WERE DRAFTED. AFC East NE Patriots- Corey Dillon- 2ND rd 1997. Laurence Maroney- 1st rd 2006 Miami Dolphins- Ronnie Brown- 1st rd 2nd overall 2005 Buffalo Bills- Willis McGahee- 1st rd 23rd overall 2003. Anthony Thomas- 2nd rd 2001 NYJ- Leon Washington- 4th rd 2006 Kevan Barlow- 3rd rd 2001. AFC East Total- 3 1st rd picks 2 2nd rd picks 1 3rd 1 4th AFC West- SD- Ladannian Tomlinson- 1st rd 5th overall 2001. KC- Larry Johnson- 1st rd 27th overall 2003 Den- Tatum Bell- 2nd rd 41st overall 2004 Oak- Lamont Jordan- 2nd rd 2001. AFC West Total- 2 1st rd picks 2 2nd rd picks AFC North- Cincy- Rudi Johnson- 4th rd 2001 Balt- Jamal Lewis 1st rd 5th overall 2000 Clev- Reuben Droughns- 3rd round 2000 Pitt- Willie Parker- UDFA AFC North total- 1 1st rd 1 3rd rd 1 4th rd 1 UDFA AFC South. Indy- Joseph Addai- 1st rd 30th overall 2006 Jax- Fred Taylor 1st rd 9th overall 1998. Maurice Drew- 2nd rd 60th overall 2006 Tenn- Travis Henry- 2nd rd 2001. Lendale White- 2nd rd 2006. Houston- I'm gonna guess Wali Lundy- 6th rd AFC South Totals- 2 1st rd picks 3 2nd rd picks and 6th rd pick. AFC TOTALS- 8 1st rd . 7 2nd rd . 2 3rd rd . 2 4th rd . 1 6th rd 1 udfa. 17 1ST DAY Rbs. 2 4th rounders and only 2 late picks. Now onto the NFC NFC EAST- Dallas- Julius Jones- 2nd rd NYG- Tiki Barber- 2nd rd Philly- Westbrook 3rd rd Wash- Clitnon Portis- 2nd rd NFC EAST TOTAL- 3 2nd rd picks 1 3rd rd NFC West- Seattle- Shaun Alexander- 1st rd STL- Steven Jackson- 1st rd Ari- Edgerrin James- 1st rd SF- Frank Gore- 3rd rd NFC WEST TOTAL- 3 1st rd picks 1 3rd rd NFC SOUTH- NO- Deuce Mcallister- 1st rd Reggie Bush- 1st rd Tampa- Caddy Williams- 1st rd Carolina- Deshaun Foster- 2nd rd. Deangelo Williams- 1st rd Atl- Warrick Dunn- 1st rd. Jerious Norwood- 3rd rd NFC SOUTH TOTAL- 5 1ST rd picks 1 2nd 1 3rd NFC North. Chi- Thomas Jones- 1st rd Minn- Chester Taylor- 6th rd GB- Ahman Green 3rd Det- Kevin Jones- 1st rd. NFC North Total- 2 1st picks (didn't count benson btw) 1 3rd 1 6th NFC TOTALS- 10 1st rd picks 4 2nd rd picks. 3 3rd rd picks 1 6th rd pick. NFL TOTALS- 18 1ST RD PICKS. 11 2ND RD PICKS. 5 3RD RD. 2 4th rd. 2 6th rd 1 udfa Side note- the teams I used 2 rbs for are teams that split carries between rbs. Maybe someone could explain to me how when teams spend so many high picks on rb's when they are a "DIME A DOZEN" obviously they're valued quite highly. Furthermore if someone could explain when we're suppouse to find these "dime a dozen rbs at the same picks we're suppouse to be drafting linemen. Thank god fans don't run teams we'd be creating holes we don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills_Chick Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 word. good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Good post. I agree with most stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Really tired of hearing this. So without further adu The LIST OF NFL STARTING RBS, AND WHERE THEY WERE DRAFTED. AFC East NE Patriots- Corey Dillon- 2ND rd 1997. Laurence Maroney- 1st rd 2006 Miami Dolphins- Ronnie Brown- 1st rd 2nd overall 2005 Buffalo Bills- Willis McGahee- 1st rd 23rd overall 2003. Anthony Thomas- 2nd rd 2001 NYJ- Leon Washington- 4th rd 2006 Kevan Barlow- 3rd rd 2001. AFC East Total- 3 1st rd picks 2 2nd rd picks 1 3rd 1 4th AFC West- SD- Ladannian Tomlinson- 1st rd 5th overall 2001. KC- Larry Johnson- 1st rd 27th overall 2003 Den- Tatum Bell- 2nd rd 41st overall 2004 Oak- Lamont Jordan- 2nd rd 2001. AFC West Total- 2 1st rd picks 2 2nd rd picks AFC North- Cincy- Rudi Johnson- 4th rd 2001 Balt- Jamal Lewis 1st rd 5th overall 2000 Clev- Reuben Droughns- 3rd round 2000 Pitt- Willie Parker- UDFA AFC North total- 1 1st rd 1 3rd rd 1 4th rd 1 UDFA AFC South. Indy- Joseph Addai- 1st rd 30th overall 2006 Jax- Fred Taylor 1st rd 9th overall 1998. Maurice Drew- 2nd rd 60th overall 2006 Tenn- Travis Henry- 2nd rd 2001. Lendale White- 2nd rd 2006. Houston- I'm gonna guess Wali Lundy- 6th rd AFC South Totals- 2 1st rd picks 3 2nd rd picks and 6th rd pick. AFC TOTALS- 8 1st rd . 7 2nd rd . 2 3rd rd . 2 4th rd . 1 6th rd 1 udfa. 17 1ST DAY Rbs. 2 4th rounders and only 2 late picks. Now onto the NFC NFC EAST- Dallas- Julius Jones- 2nd rd NYG- Tiki Barber- 2nd rd Philly- Westbrook 3rd rd Wash- Clitnon Portis- 2nd rd NFC EAST TOTAL- 3 2nd rd picks 1 3rd rd NFC West- Seattle- Shaun Alexander- 1st rd STL- Steven Jackson- 1st rd Ari- Edgerrin James- 1st rd SF- Frank Gore- 3rd rd NFC WEST TOTAL- 3 1st rd picks 1 3rd rd NFC SOUTH- NO- Deuce Mcallister- 1st rd Reggie Bush- 1st rd Tampa- Caddy Williams- 1st rd Carolina- Deshaun Foster- 2nd rd. Deangelo Williams- 1st rd Atl- Warrick Dunn- 1st rd. Jerious Norwood- 3rd rd NFC SOUTH TOTAL- 5 1ST rd picks 1 2nd 1 3rd NFC North. Chi- Thomas Jones- 1st rd Minn- Chester Taylor- 6th rd GB- Ahman Green 3rd Det- Kevin Jones- 1st rd. NFC North Total- 2 1st picks (didn't count benson btw) 1 3rd 1 6th NFC TOTALS- 10 1st rd picks 4 2nd rd picks. 3 3rd rd picks 1 6th rd pick. NFL TOTALS- 18 1ST RD PICKS. 11 2ND RD PICKS. 5 3RD RD. 2 4th rd. 2 6th rd 1 udfa Side note- the teams I used 2 rbs for are teams that split carries between rbs. Maybe someone could explain to me how when teams spend so many high picks on rb's when they are a "DIME A DOZEN" obviously they're valued quite highly. Furthermore if someone could explain when we're suppouse to find these "dime a dozen rbs at the same picks we're suppouse to be drafting linemen. Thank god fans don't run teams we'd be creating holes we don't have. 839226[/snapback] Thank you. Great work & great post. Imagine if you counted all the 1st & 2nd round busts in the last decade as well....whew, that would be an obscene amount of high drafting on a dime a dozen position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I think they are a dime a dozen in that, If I want to use a first round selection on a position, which position would I likely draft a star in, it would be a running back. I think there are less 1st round failures at running back than other positions. Running backs also tend to develop quicker, thus a higher percentage of 1st year sucesses at running back. I also think the careers of running backs tend to be shorter, so again need to draft more of them as they don't last very long. Without looking up any stats, my perception is that there are more rookie of the year candates who play ruinning backs than other positions. But I do agree in that while it's easy to find a good one, mot of the good ones were drafted high. Really tired of hearing this. So without further adu The LIST OF NFL STARTING RBS, AND WHERE THEY WERE DRAFTED. AFC East NE Patriots- Corey Dillon- 2ND rd 1997. Laurence Maroney- 1st rd 2006 Miami Dolphins- Ronnie Brown- 1st rd 2nd overall 2005 Buffalo Bills- Willis McGahee- 1st rd 23rd overall 2003. Anthony Thomas- 2nd rd 2001 NYJ- Leon Washington- 4th rd 2006 Kevan Barlow- 3rd rd 2001. AFC East Total- 3 1st rd picks 2 2nd rd picks 1 3rd 1 4th AFC West- SD- Ladannian Tomlinson- 1st rd 5th overall 2001. KC- Larry Johnson- 1st rd 27th overall 2003 Den- Tatum Bell- 2nd rd 41st overall 2004 Oak- Lamont Jordan- 2nd rd 2001. AFC West Total- 2 1st rd picks 2 2nd rd picks AFC North- Cincy- Rudi Johnson- 4th rd 2001 Balt- Jamal Lewis 1st rd 5th overall 2000 Clev- Reuben Droughns- 3rd round 2000 Pitt- Willie Parker- UDFA AFC North total- 1 1st rd 1 3rd rd 1 4th rd 1 UDFA AFC South. Indy- Joseph Addai- 1st rd 30th overall 2006 Jax- Fred Taylor 1st rd 9th overall 1998. Maurice Drew- 2nd rd 60th overall 2006 Tenn- Travis Henry- 2nd rd 2001. Lendale White- 2nd rd 2006. Houston- I'm gonna guess Wali Lundy- 6th rd AFC South Totals- 2 1st rd picks 3 2nd rd picks and 6th rd pick. AFC TOTALS- 8 1st rd . 7 2nd rd . 2 3rd rd . 2 4th rd . 1 6th rd 1 udfa. 17 1ST DAY Rbs. 2 4th rounders and only 2 late picks. Now onto the NFC NFC EAST- Dallas- Julius Jones- 2nd rd NYG- Tiki Barber- 2nd rd Philly- Westbrook 3rd rd Wash- Clitnon Portis- 2nd rd NFC EAST TOTAL- 3 2nd rd picks 1 3rd rd NFC West- Seattle- Shaun Alexander- 1st rd STL- Steven Jackson- 1st rd Ari- Edgerrin James- 1st rd SF- Frank Gore- 3rd rd NFC WEST TOTAL- 3 1st rd picks 1 3rd rd NFC SOUTH- NO- Deuce Mcallister- 1st rd Reggie Bush- 1st rd Tampa- Caddy Williams- 1st rd Carolina- Deshaun Foster- 2nd rd. Deangelo Williams- 1st rd Atl- Warrick Dunn- 1st rd. Jerious Norwood- 3rd rd NFC SOUTH TOTAL- 5 1ST rd picks 1 2nd 1 3rd NFC North. Chi- Thomas Jones- 1st rd Minn- Chester Taylor- 6th rd GB- Ahman Green 3rd Det- Kevin Jones- 1st rd. NFC North Total- 2 1st picks (didn't count benson btw) 1 3rd 1 6th NFC TOTALS- 10 1st rd picks 4 2nd rd picks. 3 3rd rd picks 1 6th rd pick. NFL TOTALS- 18 1ST RD PICKS. 11 2ND RD PICKS. 5 3RD RD. 2 4th rd. 2 6th rd 1 udfa Side note- the teams I used 2 rbs for are teams that split carries between rbs. Maybe someone could explain to me how when teams spend so many high picks on rb's when they are a "DIME A DOZEN" obviously they're valued quite highly. Furthermore if someone could explain when we're suppouse to find these "dime a dozen rbs at the same picks we're suppouse to be drafting linemen. Thank god fans don't run teams we'd be creating holes we don't have. 839226[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I think they are a dime a dozen in that, If I want to use a first round selection on a position, which position would I likely draft a star in, it would be a running back. I think there are less 1st round failures at running back than other positions. Running backs also tend to develop quicker, thus a higher percentage of 1st year sucesses at running back. I also think the careers of running backs tend to be shorter, so again need to draft more of them as they don't last very long. Without looking up any stats, my perception is that there are more rookie of the year candates who play ruinning backs than other positions. But I do agree in that while it's easy to find a good one, mot of the good ones were drafted high. 839988[/snapback] Also, (I am guessing) I think the 1st Rd running back that do fail are mostly due to injuries rather than their performance sucking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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