McGahee vs. Thomas

[CFLstyle]

I've noticed lately that people are starting to compare Willis to Thomas, I saw them mention it during the Lions game and then I see a few people on here saying "Not even close, Willis is terrible, we havn't had a great running back since Thomas."

 

These two can not be compared at all, there's a huge difference and not in the style of their play, but in the offense around them.

 

At Thomas' time the Bills had a hall of fame quarterback, outstanding receivers, top notch offensive line, and an incredible defense to go along with it. Thomas had one hell of a team around him. A lot of people bash Willis McGahee and they say he will never be as good as Thomas was, look at the team around him. He has a second year starter at quarterback and although he seems to be improving he's still inconsistant. The offensive line sucks and there's no doubt about it, these guys can not block, they havn't been opening holes all season.

 

I'm not saying that McGahee is as good as Thomas was, nor am I saying that Thomas was a lot better than McGahee is. It's an interesting comparison nonetheless, and it's one that there's really no answer to.

 

Just something to think about though, if Thomas was the running back in the offense the Bills have today, and McGahee was the running back in the early '90s, would the tables be turned?

[BillsPride12]

Well for one thing Thurman Thomas was alot more competitive and actually wanted to prove all the scouts wrong that passed on him in the draft. Much more competitive than Willis IMO and he was amazing blocker and receiver and lets not forget he kept Barry Sanders on the bench in college. I'm sorry I can't put Willis in the same category as Thurm.

[daquixers_is_back]

Well for one thing Thurman Thomas was alot more competitive and actually wanted to prove all the scouts wrong that passed on him in the draft.  Much more competitive than Willis IMO and he was amazing blocker and receiver and lets not forget he kept Barry Sanders on the bench in college.  I'm sorry I can't put Willis in the same category as Thurm.

810501[/snapback]

 

I love when people say Willis is not competitive or doesnt have heart ... like they actually know

[/dev/null]

Thurman could catch a pass. And was quite good at it too

Thurman could block. OK let me rephrase, Thurman would block

 

Thurman was a team player

 

Thurman > Willis

[Dawgg]

umm... you can tell a lot by the way someone PLAYS.

 

I love when people say Willis is not competitive or doesnt have heart ... like they actually know 

810505[/snapback]

[bluv]

Really it doesn't matter for some will always give their old school favorite player the edge over a new school player (unless it is OJ!) But on the real, until a team has mad success or an individual player is the top 3 player in the league at his position they will get no respect. I remember a time though before this internet age where fans of a particular team would defend its players and try to hype them up; now we dog them more than the outsiders! Yep, them were the good ol' days!

[ajzepp]

I'm glad we have Willis, but he's not really someone I'd ever thinking about mentioning in the same sentence as Thurman. Thurman was one of the most complete backs in the history of the league. He made catches that would put a lot of full-time wideouts to shame. Not only that, but he was just a cool guy. They used to film a Bills pregame show at Tony Romas when I worked there (Henrietta, NY), and he did the show twice. He's probably my second favorite Bill behind Jimbo.

[Dibs]

......A lot of people bash Willis McGahee and they say he will never be as good as Thomas was.....

810492[/snapback]

The people who say this have their expectations set waaaaay too high. TT will be in the HOF next induction. He was arguably one of the top 10(top 5?) RBs of all time. Who cares if WM is never as good as TT. He can be a multi-probowl RB & not be as good...hell, he can be a HOF caliber RB and not be as good.

It baffles me. Not as good as TT in some peoples minds means not worth having.

If JPL becomes good he'll suffer the same thing with comparisons to Kelly.

[daquixers_is_back]

umm... you can tell a lot by the way someone PLAYS.

810509[/snapback]

 

Your right! McGahee is the fastest Bill to ever reach 2,000 yards. Yep even faster than Thurman. So yeah your right you can tell a lot by the way someone PLAYS

 

McGahee through 31 games : 2,375 yards, 18 TD's

Thurman through 30 games : 2,125 yards, 8 TD's

 

This of course does not mean that Willis is better than Thurman. Thats just stupid to say (at least this far into his career) , but it does show the wrong part of your response.

[Bmwolf21]

Your right! McGahee is the fastest Bill to ever reach 2,000 yards. Yep even faster than Thurman. So yeah your right you can tell a lot by the way someone PLAYS 

 

McGahee through 32 games : 2,375 yards, 18 TD's

Thurman through 31 games : 2,125 yards, 8 TD's

 

This of course does not mean that Willis is better than Thurman. Thats just stupid to say (at least this far into his career) , but it does show the wrong part of your response.

810529[/snapback]

(Fixed the "games played" stats for you.)

Not arguing your point about knowing someone's personality by the way they play, but just wanted to clarify a couple stats.

First, through the first two years of their careers (31 games for TT, 32 for Willis) McGahee got 104 more carries than TT, which explains some of the rushing yardage discerepancy, but where TT pulls away statistically is his value as a receiver:

 

Thurman: 78 receptions-877 yards - 6 TD

Willis: 50 receptions-347 yards - 0 TD

 

I think the biggest difference is when people think about TT, they remember his passion and how fired up he got for the game -I remember him yapping at RW during pregame warmups before a game against the Fish - and how much more laid-back Willis is, how he seems to play uninspired. That was one reason why I was excited to see him fired up earlier this year, yapping a little, giving the first down signal, etc.

 

I am a huge fan of TT, but to hold any current player up to TT's standards is being unfair, especially since TT should be getting his Hall Call real soon.

[daquixers_is_back]

(Fixed the "games played" stats for you.)

Not arguing your point about knowing someone's personality by the way they play, but just wanted to clarify a couple stats.

First, through the first two years of their careers (31 games for TT, 32 for Willis) McGahee got 104 more carries than TT, which explains some of the rushing yardage discerepancy, but where TT pulls away statistically is his value as a receiver:

 

Thurman: 78 receptions-877 yards - 6 TD

Willis:      50 receptions-347 yards - 0 TD

 

I think the biggest difference is when people think about TT, they remember his passion and how fired up he got for the game -I remember him yapping at RW during pregame warmups before a game against the Fish - and how much more laid-back Willis is, how he seems to play uninspired.  That was one reason why I was excited to see him fired up earlier this year, yapping a little, giving the first down signal, etc. 

 

I am a huge fan of TT, but to hold any current player up to TT's standards is being unfair, especially since TT should be getting his Hall Call real soon.

810626[/snapback]

 

So we ran more? And you blame it on Willis? And what did you fix? You just added receiving stats.

 

Were you at the Jets and Vikings game where Willis went right to the corner sections where the fans were right before each game to get the fans pumped up? People miss so much when they watch stuff on TV.

[BillsPride12]

I think the biggest difference is when people think about TT, they remember his passion and how fired up he got for the game -I remember him yapping at RW during pregame warmups before a game against the Fish - and how much more laid-back Willis is, how he seems to play uninspired.

 

 

Exactly. This guy nailed it, I remember listening to Willis mumble last year"I unno we are just in chaos right now" like he doesn't have a care in the world. To me Willis doesn't seem to be about winning and having some pride. I watch alot of old tapes from the glory days and here are some examples of what Thurman meant to this team, after another beating of the Fish in 91 I think Thurman was doing a post-game conference and you could still see it in his eyes and he was talking about how even though the Bills beat them earlier in the season he didn't feel like they gave them enough respect and he said something like I thought Miami played pretty damn well today too but they got their ass kicked. Another one was in 96 when we were playing for a wild-card spot in the playoffs in the last regular season game Thurm was screaming out to the guys C'Mon Now This Is Our Season on the Line. Look I know alot of players say things like that, but you could tell that Thurman really meant it and you could see his passion. In fact Thurman was known to get in Bruce Smith's face if he had to get him to step it up. Now look at this team, Willis is a guy who is in a position where he should be saying something to light a spark in the younger guys and he doesn't can anyone imagine him getting in Bruce Smith or Jim Kelly's face?

[bartshan-83]

I have no idea how hard Willis plays (no one here does), but basing an assumption either way on quotes and sound bytes is ridiculous.

 

Our boy Thurman "MJ" Thomas didn't exactly quote Shakespeare all the time...

[BillsPride12]

Look I wasn't trying to compare quotes but more so body language and emotion, James Lofton said he played football with Marcus Allen and another good rb who I can't remember right now, and then Thurman and said Thurman was the most competitive running back he ever played with. I don't see what Willis has ever done for you to be on his jock, I mean he definately is not garbage. He is talented and I'm sure he plays hard to a degree, but I hate seeing people compare him to Thurman Thomas who will be going into the Hall of Fame this year. Has Willis shown even the slightest signs of performing at a HOF level yet?

[bartshan-83]

I don't see what Willis has ever done for you to be on his jock, I mean he definately is not garbage.  He is talented and I'm sure he plays hard to a degree, but I hate seeing people compare him to Thurman Thomas who will be going into the Hall of Fame this year.  Has Willis shown even the slightest signs of performing at a HOF level yet?

810721[/snapback]

Never said I was. And there aren't a lot of ways he should be compared to Thurman Thomas except for that he has had some success early on in his career. I give him credit for putting up good numbers on 3 teams that ranked from average to sh-------.

 

But beyond that, he is no Thurman Thomas. He will never be the same type of player. Plus unless this team starts going to Super Bowls regularly, then Thurman will always be remembered more fondly due to the team's success.

 

Willis is very good and could become great. We'll just have to see.

[BillsPride12]

Here's some more on Thurman Thomas from the new Steve Tasker book. Until I see some guys who have played with Willis talk about him in these regards I refuse to put them in the same category,

 

"The guy was an absolute warrior, and for a long period, the most productive running back and perhaps the most productive offensive player in the game. The thing about Thurman was that, like Walter Payton before him, he was able to do it all, and do it all very well. He was a superb runner, rushing for more yards than O.J. Simpson. And he was an excellent receiever ranking 3rd all-time along Bills receivers with 456 receptions, 22 of them for touchdowns. But his blocking skills were the thing that impressed me the most and spoke legions about what a team player he was. Thurman was one of the best backs in NFL history at picking up blitzers. I don't know how many times he waylaid a linebacker or a cornerback to give Jim the additional time to complete a big pass. That was no small thing because most marquee backs want nothing to do with blocking, But Ted Marchibroda told me that Thurman would spend extra time during the week studying the blitz tendencies of upcoming opponents. Four times, Thurman led the league in combined yards from scrimmage. He and the immortal Jim Brown are the only backs in league history to accomplish that feat that many times. Thurman clearly was a dominating player over a long period."

 

This is all coming from a guy who actually played in the NFL, not just one of us fans. Willis has to earn it if he wants to have this kind of respect. I don't like how some Bills fans just want to throw it out there like candy on Halloween night just because he is the current running back. I'm rooting for Willis but right now he's not on Thurman's level.

[BillsPride12]

Never said I was. And there aren't a lot of ways he should be compared to Thurman Thomas except for that he has had some success early on in his career. I give him credit for putting up good numbers on 3 teams that ranked from average to sh-------.

 

But beyond that, he is no Thurman Thomas. He will never be the same type of player. Plus unless this team starts going to Super Bowls regularly, then Thurman will always be remembered more fondly due to the team's success.

 

Willis is very good and could become great. We'll just have to see.

 

 

Yeah I'm sorry I thought you were someone at the beginning who was backing up Willis in this debate and like I said I think Willis is a good running back and I hope he can step it up but I just get really mad when people make comparisons like this because it slights Thurman Thomas

[daquixers_is_back]

Here's some more on Thurman Thomas from the new Steve Tasker book.  Until I see some guys who have played with Willis talk about him in these regards I refuse to put them in the same category,

 

"The guy was an absolute warrior, and for a long period, the most productive running back and perhaps the most productive offensive player in the game.  The thing about Thurman was that, like Walter Payton before him, he was able to do it all, and do it all very well.  He was a superb runner, rushing for more yards than O.J. Simpson.  And he was an excellent receiever ranking 3rd all-time along Bills receivers with 456 receptions, 22 of them for touchdowns.  But his blocking skills were the thing that impressed me the most and spoke legions about what a team player he was.  Thurman was one of the best backs in NFL history at picking up blitzers.  I don't know how many times he waylaid a linebacker or a cornerback to give Jim the additional time to complete a big pass.  That was no small thing because most marquee backs want nothing to do with blocking, But Ted Marchibroda told me that Thurman would spend extra time during the week studying the blitz tendencies of upcoming opponents.  Four times, Thurman led the league in combined yards from scrimmage.  He and the immortal Jim Brown are the only backs in league history to accomplish that feat that many times.  Thurman clearly was a dominating player over a long period."

 

This is all coming from a guy who actually played in the NFL, not just one of us fans.  Willis has to earn it if he wants to have this kind of respect.  I don't like how some Bills fans just want to throw it out there like candy on Halloween night just because he is the current running back.  I'm rooting for Willis but right now he's not on Thurman's level.

810749[/snapback]

 

Then shutup and keep it to yourself.

 

Just kidding but seriously ... i dont think anyone thinks of Willis in TT's level yet. But you cant judge someone's will to play or their heart.

[Bmwolf21]

So we ran more? And you blame it on Willis? And what did you fix? You just added receiving stats.

 

Were you at the Jets and Vikings game where Willis went right to the corner sections where the fans were right before each game to get the fans pumped up? People miss so much when they watch stuff on TV.

810670[/snapback]

You are totally misreading my response. I was agreeing with you that it's hard to tell a lot about a player's personality based on the way they play. As for the stats I fixed - I corrected the number of games played from your post - go back and look at my first post, and look at the bolded part of your quote. The rushing stats you listed showed their totals for their first two years, which for WM was 32 games, while TT played 31 (your original post had WM at 31 and TT @ 30.)

 

Second, where did you pull the word blame from? I know TSW has some Gold Medal-winning conclusion jumpers, but seriously. All I was trying to do was clarify why I thought TT was the better all-around player, and how comparisons to a future HOF'er are unfair to the current player, whether we are talking WM and TT, or JP and Jimbo.

[daquixers_is_back]

You are totally misreading my response. I was agreeing with you that it's hard to tell a lot about a player's personality based on the way they play.  As for the stats I fixed -  I corrected the number of games played from your post - go back and look at my first post, and look at the bolded part of your quote. The rushing stats you listed showed their totals for their first two years, which for WM was 32 games, while TT played 31 (your original post had WM at 31 and TT @ 30.)

 

Second, where did you pull the word blame from?  I know TSW has some Gold Medal-winning conclusion jumpers, but seriously.  All I was trying to do was clarify why I thought TT was the better all-around player, and how comparisons to a future HOF'er are unfair to the current player, whether we are talking WM and TT, or JP and Jimbo.

810770[/snapback]

 

McGahee only played 15 games in 2004 ... he suited up 16 but only played 15. He did not have one rushing attempt or one reception against NE and did not start.

[Bmwolf21]

Looks like you're right. NFL.com and a couple other sites shows WM with having 16 GP and 15 GS; I assume if he is active for the game that he gets credited for a game played. I don't remember that game all that well, so it is possible he came in to spell Henry and just pass blocked or went out into a pattern or something, or he might have stayed on the sideline the whole game.

 

With that info, it means that through their first two years, both guys played (as far as I can tell) the same number of games (31.) WM has the edge in yards rushing, while TT gets the nod in total yards from scrimmage. But for WM to be less than 300 yards short of TT's start is a pretty good start to his career.

[daquixers_is_back]

Looks like you're right.  NFL.com and a couple other sites shows WM with  having 16 GP and 15 GS; I assume if he is active for the game that he gets credited for a game played. I don't remember that game all that well, so it is possible he came in to spell Henry and just pass blocked or went out into a pattern or something, or he might have stayed on the sideline the whole game. 

 

With that info, it means that through their first two years, both guys played (as far as I can tell) the same number of games (31.) WM has the edge in yards rushing, while TT gets the nod in total yards from scrimmage. But for WM to be less than 300 yards short of TT's start is a pretty good start to his career.

810795[/snapback]

 

Agreed.

[Dr. Trooth]

Willis has been around for 4 years...3 of them starting almost every game. At the end of the day, he's got a 3.9 yd. per carry avg. Never reached the 1300 yd. mark, never had a run of more than 41 or a td run over 20, and never snatched more than 28 passes in a season. He's neither a skilled or willing blocker, nor does he pose much of a threat to beat you.

 

Corey Dillon didn't have squat in Cincy and put up great numbers. Ladanian didn't, and still doesn't have much around him on O... anyone care to name LT's Olinemen over the past several years? Who are his wrs? Aside from Drew Brees and the Antonio G. connection of the past couple of years and a stout defense, he's had nothing... yet he manages to put up very good numbers.

 

So, when do we stop making excuses for why Willis doesn't have 2,000 yards rushing, a 5.0 yd. per carry avg. and catching 60-70 balls.... yada yada yada? What... do we need to construct a team of all pros to surround him just so he can function like a top back should? If Willis was going to be a top 5 or 7 back in this league, it would have happened by now. I'll concede that he's at least average for an NFL starter. He is what he is... and opponents don't have to work very hard to figure out how to stop him.

[daquixers_is_back]

It's easy and shouldn't need a huge discussion.

 

He sucks.

He gets burned ALL OF THE TIME.

He will cost way to watch for MAYBE a top 20 CB.

810207[/snapback]

 

 

Willis has been around for 4 years...3 of them starting almost every game.  At the end of the day, he's got a 3.9 yd. per carry avg.  Never reached the 1300 yd. mark, never had a run of more than 41 or a td run over 20, and never snatched more than 28 passes in a season.  He's neither a skilled or willing blocker, nor does he pose much of a threat to beat you.

 

Corey Dillon didn't have squat in Cincy and put up great numbers. Ladanian didn't, and still doesn't have much around him on O... anyone care to name LT's Olinemen over the past several years?  Who are his wrs?  Aside from Drew Brees and the Antonio G. connection of the past couple of years and a stout defense, he's had nothing... yet he manages to put up very good numbers.

 

So, when do we stop making excuses for why Willis doesn't have 2,000 yards rushing, a 5.0 yd. per  carry avg. and catching 60-70 balls.... yada yada yada?  What... do we need to construct a team of all pros to surround him just so he can function like a top back should?  If Willis was going to be a top 5 or 7 back in this league, it would have happened by now.  I'll concede that he's at least average for an NFL starter.  He is what he is... and opponents don't have to work very hard to figure out how to stop him.

811419[/snapback]

 

I think your forgetting that Thurman DID have a team of all-pros around him.

 

By the way ... are you talking about the same LT who has less YPG and less YPC and has 20+ receptions but NONE for more than 20 yards, so what does it matter? Willis has 1 receptions for more than 20 yards BTW.

[Dr. Trooth]

By the way ... are you talking about the same LT who has less YPG and less YPC and has 20+ receptions but NONE for more than 20 yards, so what does it matter? Willis has 1 receptions for more than 20 yards BTW.

 

Dude... are you serious? Are you saying what LT has accomplished over the past few seasons doesn't matter because of the past 5 games he's played this season? Playing with a re-tooled o line and new QB? Is his TE Gates having a typical Gates season?

 

Dude... you are prima facia evidence of a fan that has swallowed too much bad koolaid. You couldn't think objectively if your little sister's life depended on it. Shame.

[John from Riverside]

I've noticed lately that people are starting to compare Willis to Thomas, I saw them mention it during the Lions game and then I see a few people on here saying "Not even close, Willis is terrible, we havn't had a great running back since Thomas."

 

These two can not be compared at all, there's a huge difference and not in the style of their play, but in the offense around them.

 

At Thomas' time the Bills had a hall of fame quarterback, outstanding receivers, top notch offensive line, and an incredible defense to go along with it. Thomas had one hell of a team around him. A lot of people bash Willis McGahee and they say he will never be as good as Thomas was, look at the team around him. He has a second year starter at quarterback and although he seems to be improving he's still inconsistant. The offensive line sucks and there's no doubt about it, these guys can not block, they havn't been opening holes all season.

 

I'm not saying that McGahee is as good as Thomas was, nor am I saying that Thomas was a lot better than McGahee is. It's an interesting comparison nonetheless, and it's one that there's really no answer to.

 

Just something to think about though, if Thomas was the running back in the offense the Bills have today, and McGahee was the running back in the early '90s, would the tables be turned?

810492[/snapback]

 

I think their styles are distinctly different and I also think that in order to maximize Magehee he needs to have some run bulls in front of him.......

[generaLee83]

I don't think there is much comparison. McGahee has outplayed A-Train a bunch this season.

 

 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Look I wasn't trying to compare quotes but more so body language and emotion, James Lofton said he played football with Marcus Allen and another good rb who I can't remember right now, and then Thurman and said Thurman was the most competitive running back he ever played with.  I don't see what Willis has ever done for you to be on his jock, I mean he definately is not garbage.  He is talented and I'm sure he plays hard to a degree, but I hate seeing people compare him to Thurman Thomas who will be going into the Hall of Fame this year.  Has Willis shown even the slightest signs of performing at a HOF level yet?

810721[/snapback]

Look through the thread and show me the post where somebody said McGahee is in the same league as Thurman. You're likely referring to Dax, who merely said McGahee's lack of heart and passion is a misconception. You're fighting a straw man that you built all on your own.

[daquixers_is_back]

Dude... are you serious?  Are you saying what LT has accomplished over the past few seasons doesn't matter because of the past 5 games he's played this season?  Playing with a re-tooled o line and new QB?  Is his TE Gates having a typical Gates season?

 

Dude... you are prima facia evidence of a fan that has swallowed too much bad koolaid.  You couldn't think objectively if your little sister's life depended on it.  Shame.

812079[/snapback]

 

AHAHAHAHAHA

 

Re-tooled 0-line? McGahee would LOVE to have that 0-line because his 0-line is 10x worse.

 

LT has been playing with a GREAT 0-line for nearly his every year with San Diego. Thats the point. As soon as they get shaky, see what happens.

 

TE Gates? uhm well McGahee doesnt have a TE

 

So for the first year their actually equal.

 

BTW, Tomlinson just fumbled.