Culpepper

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Why?  Matt Birk plays in Miami?

Yep. And Randy Moss. And Scott Linehan is still the OC. And Culpepper's knee will be 100% just 8 months after knee surgery. And oh yeah, there are no distractions in Miami.

[Dan]

Please take 10 minutes out of your life and read the manifesto.....read me

 

Though many have commented on how one can manipulate stats and make anyone look good for the sake of one's argument, there are some undisputable facts in the manifesto  that would CLEARLY put Daunte Culpepper in the ELITE class of NFL present and past quarterbacks.....which is back on topic by the way!

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Well, I went as far as clicking on the link, then quickly scrolled down the diatribe. But, I can pretty much guarantee that I'll never read all that. We all know that facts is facts and figures is figures, but that don't change the reality that Culpepper is far from elite. Average to above average, perhaps. But elite?

 

You could define elite as: The best or most skilled members of a group. Well, clearly he's not the best. And if you consider "most skilled members" to include 1 of the top 16 QBs in the league currently, I might give it to you. But most skilled "present and past" is such a stretch that I find it hard to imagine for consideration.

[DCM]

while scrolling you should have stopped at the very first paragragh.....the one that lets you know that DC is the most prolific scoring QB in the entire HISTORY of the NFL......I give up, you guys win, DC is at best an above average QB....in the same class as say......oh I don't know.....maybe.....Trent Dilfer? Or is DC not that elite because Trent has a ring?

 

He may not be an ELITE QB after this injury....but, to say he didn't dominate the game the past few years is ridiculous!

 

If he does what he did the last 6 years in Minnesota for another6 years in Miami....he is a definate 1st ballot Hall of Famer....is that ELITE enough?

[Dibs]

Was Warner an elite QB on his day?

Was....Gannon?

Was....Aikman?

McNair?

 

3 of the above were MVPs & the other has 3 SB rings.

 

There are 2 ways of looking at this, thus perpetual argument.

 

Elite means(is interpreted as meaning)...

 

1. Performs at a level that all acknowledge is very impressive.

or

2. Can perform at that level wherever he plays & under detrimental circumstances.

 

To say a QB does not fit into meaning #2 is not saying he is no good. Obviously to fit into #1 you have to be very good...just not as good.

 

It is easy to watch a top talent in a great situation performing awesomely & say "WOW, he is an elite player". It is harder to tell if the player actually is.

IMO of the 4 QBs I've listed above only one fits into the #2 category. I'm not saying who I think it is.

 

Is Culpepper?

Under meaning #1, of course he is. He has produced at a top level over several years doing extraordinary things.

 

Under meaning #2? I'm not sure & I'm not sure if we will ever know. If he cannot regain his full mobility he will obviously never be as good as he was...his mobility & physicality were integral IMO to his success.

To say it was all to do with having Moss to throw to is in my opinion over-stating his abilities(Moss) & also a bit simplistic. In 2004 Moss missed 3 entire games. Culpeppers combined stats in those games were...

95-65-765-7-1 QBR=112.8

Is Culpepper meaning #2 elite? Well, he was good from the get go & until last year had maintained his performances pretty much under all circumstances.

I tend to lean towards yes....though perhaps we will never know.

[DCM]

Was Warner an elite QB on his day?

Was....Gannon?

Was....Aikman?

McNair?

 

3 of the above were MVPs & the other has 3 SB rings.

 

There are 2 ways of looking at this, thus perpetual argument.

 

Elite means(is interpreted as meaning)...

 

1.  Performs at a level that all acknowledge is very impressive.

or

2.  Can perform at that level wherever he plays & under detrimental circumstances.

 

To say a QB does not fit into meaning #2 is not saying he is no good.  Obviously to fit into #1 you have to be very good...just not as good.

 

It is easy to watch a top talent in a great situation performing awesomely & say "WOW, he is an elite player".  It is harder to tell if the player actually is.

IMO of the 4 QBs I've listed above only one fits into the #2 category.  I'm not saying who I think it is.

 

Is Culpepper?

Under meaning #1, of course he is.  He has produced at a top level over several years doing extraordinary things.

 

Under meaning #2?  I'm not sure & I'm not sure if we will ever know.  If he cannot regain his full mobility he will obviously never be as good as he was...his mobility & physicality were integral IMO to his success. 

To say it was all to do with having Moss to throw to is in my opinion over-stating his abilities(Moss) & also a bit simplistic.  In 2004 Moss missed 3 entire games.  Culpeppers combined stats in those games were...

95-65-765-7-1 QBR=112.8

Is Culpepper meaning #2 elite?  Well, he was good from the get go & until last year had maintained his performances pretty much under all circumstances.

I tend to lean towards yes....though perhaps we will never know.

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You had me at "I tend to lean towards yes....

[Eric/Hawaii]

Please take 10 minutes out of your life and read the manifesto.....read me

 

Though many have commented on how one can manipulate stats and make anyone look good for the sake of one's argument, there are some undisputable facts in the manifesto  that would CLEARLY put Daunte Culpepper in the ELITE class of NFL present and past quarterbacks.....which is back on topic by the way!

719400[/snapback]

 

The stats look good but dude you got to take the good with the bad. Add all those fumbles (not just the ones he lost) and it's a big scratch on the hood you can't help but notice. Just because he didn't lose the ball doesn't mean it was OK. Just because it was recovered for a gain doesn't make it ok either. On 3 and 10 he fumbles for a 2 yard gain doesn't quite cut it. The thing you conviently left out was if DC doesn't get his own fumble the defence does. Only 20 fumbles out of 81 were recovered by someone on the offence other than DC ( in the last 23 games he has not recover one of his own fumbles 50% of these were recover by the defence).

In 81 games he has 81 fumbles.

 

not mentioned either is out of 6 starting seasons he has only three complete or full seasons. He misses on average 2 and half games per year due to injury.

Dan (the holy one) Marino missed 4 games his first 9 years as a starter(all 4 were in one season).

 

and just for fun take out his 2004 probowl year and run your stats. All of a sudden he becomes a real Average QB.

 

Elite QB - me thinks not. Good to Average - yes

[keepthefaith]

The stats look good but dude you got to take the good with the bad. Add all those fumbles (not just the ones he lost) and it's a big scratch on the hood you can't help but notice. Just because he didn't lose the ball doesn't mean it was OK. Just because it was recovered for a gain doesn't make it ok either. On 3 and 10 he fumbles for a 2 yard gain doesn't quite cut it. The thing you conviently left out was if DC doesn't get his own fumble the defence does. Only 20 fumbles out of 81 were recovered by someone on the offence other than DC ( in the last 23 games he has not recover one of his own fumbles 50% of these were recover by the defence).

In 81 games he has 81 fumbles.

 

not mentioned either is out of 6 starting seasons he has only three complete or full seasons. He misses on average 2 and half games per year due to injury.

Dan (the holy one) Marino missed 4 games his first 9 years as a starter(all 4 were in one season).

 

and just for fun take out his 2004 probowl year and run your stats. All of a sudden he becomes a real Average QB.

 

 

 

Since Elite QB's are so hard to come by, you have to wonder why the Vikings didn't kkep him.  Simple answer has to be that he's not that great.  What new head coach wouldn't kick and scream to keep the guy if he were a franchise QB.  They must have put their heads together up there in MN and figured they could upgrade that position.

 

Elite QB - me thinks not. Good to Average - yes

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[Dibs]

and just for fun take out his 2004 probowl year and run your stats. All of a sudden he becomes a real Average QB.

 

Elite QB - me thinks not. Good to Average - yes

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O.K.....just for fun....taking out his best year 2004 & last year. Not really fair since I'm chopping a 16 good game year & a 7 bad game year but....

 

2000-2003(4 yrs)(Including his 1st year starting)

1843-1160-13881-90-63 AVE(461-290-3470-22.5-15.75)

QBR=88 %=63 YPA=7.53

Hey that's surprising, they are not much different to his career stats.

QBR=91.5 %=64.4 YPA=7.73

 

On top of that, he rushed for 1917yds & 26TDs in those 4 years.

I don't know how many fumbles he lost but....that averages to 479yds & 6.5TDs a year.

 

Personally I think if you are going to factor fumbles into the equation, you must also factor rushing TDs, yardage & 1st downs gained off of rushes.

[Eric/Hawaii]

Personally I think if you are going to factor fumbles into the equation, you must also factor rushing TDs, yardage & 1st downs gained off of rushes.

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why? fumbles and INTs can change a game in an instant.

81 games = 39 rushing TDs

81 games = 81 fumbles lost 39

kinda kills those rushing TDs huh?

 

the two things that Killed DC last year were INTs and no passing TDs that's what drove his QB rating down. His comp. percentage didn't go down much so he must of check down to the RB alot. Check out his passes 20+ and 40+ WAY down. Plus he was sacked 31 time which counts as a rush in the QB rating (ask Rob Johnson who's QB rating in buffalo would make Marino, Elway and Kelly blush!)

[Adam]

The Buffalo news prints a rundown of AFC East changes and calls Culpepper an elite QB acquisition for the Dolphins?  I think he needs to work on becoming average before anyone starts calling him Elite.  He's coming off a serious injury and Brad Johnson looked to be a huge impovement for the Vikings after Culpepper went down last year.  He might be closer to a bust than elite.

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Culpepper CAN be an elite QB, but I dont see the tools there yet for him to be one in Miami. He is a pretty good pocket passer, and a very good runner.

 

The thing he doesn't do well is move around in the pocket, and thats why he failed last year in Minnesota. The way Marino used to move in the pocket, and sidestep the rush- Culpepper hasn't shown that. There is a very real chance that he plays horribly, and gets hurt again. They need better blocking.

 

On the other hand, don't be shocked if Joey Harrington steps in and plays at a VERY high level for them, and even gets them to the playoffs. His skill set is very different that Culpeppers, or what was asked of him in Detroit, where he never fit in. I think he could end up starting next season

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Sorry, DCM. you will NEVER convince me that Bennie Anderson is a serviceable guard in the NFL.

[DCM]

Yep.  And Randy Moss.  And Scott Linehan is still the OC.  And Culpepper's knee will be 100% just 8 months after knee surgery.  And oh yeah, there are no distractions in Miami.

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I'm pretty sure Matt Birk and Linehan are not in the Fins future.....but there is a rumor floating around about a potential Culpepper/Moss reunion in 07.

[IDBillzFan]

I'm pretty sure Matt Birk and Linehan are not in the Fins future.....but there is a rumor floating around about a potential Culpepper/Moss reunion in 07.

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Put me in the column of "STFU about any other teams' problems until we prove we're fixing our own." The reality is, despite the W/L record of teams you played in your year-end sweep last year, there's not a Bills fan around today who wouldn't give a part of their anatomy to win more than two games in a row against anyone.