Benjamin Franklin Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 anybody remember that thread on splitting NY into 2 sections and gaining a new state....LETS GET IT DONE!! 707774[/snapback] That idea would accelerate the decline of WNY. ENY would become a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 There is something terribly wrong when most people in a place depend on government and patronage jobs to survive. It's a serpent consuming its own tail. You wonder why there is so much opposition to merging the city and county governments? Everybody has a family member or a friend on the city, county, or village payroll. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 anybody remember that thread on splitting NY into 2 sections and gaining a new state....LETS GET IT DONE!! 707774[/snapback] It's not like the current arrangement is working well. There is already a Wikipedia entry on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstate_New_Y...tehood_Movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 That idea would accelerate the decline of WNY. ENY would become a monster. 707781[/snapback] correct - the nyc metro area (in which i now live) pretty much funds the rest of the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 correct - the nyc metro area (in which i now live) pretty much funds the rest of the state. 707851[/snapback] people upstate feels that all of their tax dollars flow downstate. Could it be that New York State is just run poorly by corrupt politicians (both Dem and Rep) that do nothing but serve special interest and that in actuality all of our money flows to Albany and down the toilet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kegtapr Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 That idea would accelerate the decline of WNY. ENY would become a monster. 707781[/snapback] We could be like West Virginia...what's so bad about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 people upstate feels that all of their tax dollars flow downstate. Could it be that New York State is just run poorly by corrupt politicians (both Dem and Rep) that do nothing but serve special interest and that in actuality all of our money flows to Albany and down the toilet? 707855[/snapback] people upstate may think that, but they're entirely wrong. nyc and environs provide a far greater share of the overall tax base than they receive in return. it's been like that for a while, but the NYC fiscal crisis of the 1970s -- which was very real -- has subsequently functioned as a mythology for upstate new yorkers who have complained incessantly ever since that they're pouring their hard earned money into nyc (when in fact it's the reverse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis in NC Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I figure if I know 3 families that moved back (all in their late 30's or early 40's)...there must be many more. 707619[/snapback] No, you actually just happen to know all 3 families that have moved back! Just kidding, of course, too bad it's not funny. What kind of work do these families' bread winners do? There just do not seem to be opportunities in the Buffalo area. When I visit the area, I am amazed to see growth i.e., new restaurants, stores, etc. I wonder what folks do for a living there. I work in engineering, and had to leave 14 years ago to find work elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 people upstate may think that, but they're entirely wrong. nyc and environs provide a far greater share of the overall tax base than they receive in return. it's been like that for a while, but the NYC fiscal crisis of the 1970s -- which was very real -- has subsequently functioned as a mythology for upstate new yorkers who have complained incessantly ever since that they're pouring their hard earned money into nyc (when in fact it's the reverse). 707869[/snapback] I think that it comes back to the fact that the state is run poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Y. Orangeman Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 people upstate may think that, but they're entirely wrong. nyc and environs provide a far greater share of the overall tax base than they receive in return. it's been like that for a while, but the NYC fiscal crisis of the 1970s -- which was very real -- has subsequently functioned as a mythology for upstate new yorkers who have complained incessantly ever since that they're pouring their hard earned money into nyc (when in fact it's the reverse). 707869[/snapback] Thankfully, someone else understands this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 I think that it comes back to the fact that the state is run poorly. 707883[/snapback] i'm not going to defend albany, but i will say that the current mayor of nyc is doing a very good job and has hired extremely competent people pretty much across the board (except for dan doctoroff, a guiliani holdover who was the guy behind the jets' west side stadium effort and the city's olympics bid). the city's budget is in good shape, and parks, schools, etc. have all gotten at least a little better in the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 people upstate may think that, but they're entirely wrong. nyc and environs provide a far greater share of the overall tax base than they receive in return. it's been like that for a while, but the NYC fiscal crisis of the 1970s -- which was very real -- has subsequently functioned as a mythology for upstate new yorkers who have complained incessantly ever since that they're pouring their hard earned money into nyc (when in fact it's the reverse). 707869[/snapback] I do not necessarily doubt that, but, to me, that's not really the problem. The problem is that b/c of NYC's influence in the tax structure. NYC wants a high level of government services as a city and feels fine with having the high taxes that go along with this. W/out the downstate influence, upstate New York could structure its tax system more in-line with the devasted economy up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 A couple of points... I grew up in Buffalo, left for college, returned for law school and moved to NYC. The reason was for the job...there were precious few jobs in Buffalo for a securities attorney. The very little there had very limited upside, financially. That said, I love the area and I would LOVE to move back. My wife is from LI, so that would be a tough sell. We have, however, invested in the area (place in Ellicottville, season tix for the Bills in a split) and will continue to do so. Finally, as a Republican and a NYC resident, I can say that Bloomberg is absolutely one of the worst mayors I have ever seen and deserves absolutely no support. I have not been politically active in NYC, simply because he is in office. Once he leaves, I will get involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 A couple of points... I grew up in Buffalo, left for college, returned for law school and moved to NYC. The reason was for the job...there were precious few jobs in Buffalo for a securities attorney. The very little there had very limited upside, financially. That said, I love the area and I would LOVE to move back. My wife is from LI, so that would be a tough sell. We have, however, invested in the area (place in Ellicottville, season tix for the Bills in a split) and will continue to do so. Finally, as a Republican and a NYC resident, I can say that Bloomberg is absolutely one of the worst mayors I have ever seen and deserves absolutely no support. I have not been politically active in NYC, simply because he is in office. Once he leaves, I will get involved. 707916[/snapback] hmm. i'm a pretty liberal democrat, and he was the first republican i have ever voted for (although i realize he isn't really a republican). what's your problem with him? my feeling is that he's the first mayor to take on the school system in decades, crime is at record lows, the budget is in fantastic shape, and the economy has rebounded nicely from 9/11. plus many city agencies -- from the parks to the city's economic development corporation and especially the dept of business services -- are being run far more efficiently than ever before. i would think even a republican would like that. and the fact that a republican won such a stunning landslide suggests that the support for his program is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeOiler Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 My thoughts exactly. I'm in biomedical research and while I'd love to move back someday there are just no jobs in that field in WNY. 707723[/snapback] Actually that is changing with some significant events recently, the buffalo-niagra medical campus, center for excellence complex, etc. Tens of Millions have been invested into biomedical research in downtown buffalo. I can tell you that there are quite a number of positions with openings, a large variety of jobs in biomedical research. Recruitment is very active, and will pick up even more as the center of excellence opens (opening ceremonies started today, but only a few have actually moved into the building itself). More info: http://www.bnmc.org/ My wife and I both grew up in SoCal, and I have lived in the bay area and in the south before coming here. The public schools here in the 'burbs are outstanding, and quality of life is very good. Kids in the better school districts get a similar education which you'd have to pay for private school in other places. I can tell you horror stories of the L.A. public school system...what a difference between the education our kids are getting here vs. my brothers in SoCal public schools. We could never afford our current lifestyle, nice home, etc. in many other places. We are lucky, my wife and i both earn a decent buck, which is on par with what i might get in other places. My wife could earn quite a bit more someplace else, however. Still, we've looked into moving several times for jobs with higher salaries....but they would have to pay WAY more than would even be reasonable to maintain our current lifestyle in those locations. We love it here, and have no plans of leaving. I would NEVER move back to california...it sucks there. All in all, in our situation, we couldn't do much better anywhere else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 One thing I find more depressing on my annual visits are the number of people I know that keep moving out. Pretty soon there won't be anyone to visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdevo Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 All those taxes and you can't say New York enjoys a much a better quality of life over the rest of the country... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 people upstate feels that all of their tax dollars flow downstate. Could it be that New York State is just run poorly by corrupt politicians (both Dem and Rep) that do nothing but serve special interest and that in actuality all of our money flows to Albany and down the toilet? 707855[/snapback] People upstate are on crack. NYC is the financial capital of the world. WNY is an unemployment pit undergoing a youth and brain drain. Do the math. WNY isn't funding NYC--that's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 It's not like the current arrangement is working well. There is already a Wikipedia entry on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstate_New_Y...tehood_Movement 707837[/snapback] I remember hearing about this back in the very early 90's. Its a very old discussion that won't die - but won't ever happen, because it makes no sense. The truth of the matter is that all those ridiculously wealthy Goldman Sachs bankers pay an awful lot of taxes (arguably too little taxes - but still a lot more than all those lower middle class families in Upstate do.) JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Companies are moving jobs from NY and other states but not to sun belt etc, the real move is to India, China, eastern europe, look at IBM recent announcement of 6B$ investment over next few years. Jobs wont be moving anywhere except offshore face that fact that those who moved out of WNY will be seeing the same thing happening in the place they moved since companies only care about one thing and that is making sure the execs get rich. 707623[/snapback] In the grand scheme of things, outsourcing to India is still a tiny slice of our economy. The problem isn't the jobs that are moving, its the jobs that aren't being created. Have the excellent Universities of Upstate New York produced the equivalent of a Dell (U of TX), or a Google (Stanford)? Why not? JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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