dave mcbride Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9185854 That's one thing about the NFL and good teams: Their offensive lines are usually pretty dominant. For that to be the case, it usually takes premium picks to be successful. The Indianapolis Colts' line was dominated by the Steelers are few weeks back. Do you know how many first-, second- or third-round picks are on that Colts line? One. The Steelers have three former first-round picks, a second-round pick (Smith) and a third-round pick (Starks). The front office has made drafting big bodies a priority, although Hartings was signed as a free agent from Detroit. "This is a team that uses high picks on linemen," Starks said. "When they drafted us, they expected us to be successful. And right now that's apparent." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Has nothing to do with when a player is drafted, they just have to be good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 So explain the Patriots....heck even the Seahawks have 2 UDFA's on their line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 So explain the Patriots....heck even the Seahawks have 2 UDFA's on their line... 583260[/snapback] and two first rounders on what is often considered the most dominant left side in the NFL.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I don't think that you necessarily need to DRAFT high in order to bring in great players for your offensive line, but you need to make it a priority for your franchise to get top level talent on the line. Obviously a lot of people believe that under Donahoe this wasn't a priority and a big reason why offensive line was one of the Bills largest need areas both before and after Donahoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I don't think that you necessarily need to DRAFT high in order to bring in great players for your offensive line, but you need to make it a priority for your franchise to get top level talent on the line. Obviously a lot of people believe that under Donahoe this wasn't a priority and a big reason why offensive line was one of the Bills largest need areas both before and after Donahoe. 583264[/snapback] Do you not feel that early picks tend to pan out more often on the OL than later-round picks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kultarr Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Do you not feel that early picks tend to pan out more often on the OL than later-round picks? 583266[/snapback] How many Pro Bowl lineman were drafted in the first round? How many were undrafted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 How many Pro Bowl lineman were drafted in the first round? How many were undrafted? 583268[/snapback] I can think of two that were fiirst rounders and pro bowlers: Pace Ogden Wasn't Jones also a first rounder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Do you not feel that early picks tend to pan out more often on the OL than later-round picks? 583266[/snapback] I'm just saying with free agency it's not necessarily the only way you can build a solid offensive line. The key to me is making it a priority for your franchise. Spending the money that needs to be spent. Whether it's through draft picks or through free agency if you don't make it a priority you have to rely on blind luck to build a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfWade Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 The Steelers have three former first-round picks, a second-round pick (Smith) and a third-round pick (Starks). The front office has made drafting big bodies a priority, although Hartings was signed as a free agent from Detroit. 583239[/snapback] This is something the Bills have not done. The last time the Bills used a first day pick on an interior offensive lineman? 1995, Rueben Brown, G, Pitt. They have picked players in the later rounds (and signed UDFA), but none has really panned out. The free agents signed at those positions haven't been part of the solution to this teams decade long offensive line woes either. I, for one, hope that the Bills use at least two of their first four picks to shore up the O-line. That would include drafting a highly regarded guard or center in the 2nd or 3rd. Though there's no sure things in the draft, I think the likely hood of a 2nd / 3rd round guard / center being a decent player is better than that of a 5th round or UDFA player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kultarr Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I can think of two that were fiirst rounders and pro bowlers: Pace Ogden Wasn't Jones also a first rounder? 583270[/snapback] Yes. Every one of last years NFC pro bowlers was a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round pick. Even the alternates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 How many Pro Bowl lineman were drafted in the first round? How many were undrafted? 583268[/snapback] Pro Bowl selection tells you nothing about talent on OL. There are no statistics for it, so it's basically done by "Team X has a good running game, so Player Y that they picked in the first round must be a good run blocker." Quality OL have little to nothing to do with where they were acquired in the draft or off the street as long as there is talent and they get an opportunity to play and develop. Problem is that TD picked up guys who had demonstratably failed at their job to the point where their original teams (struggling on OL themselves, so what does that tell you?) dumped them. Which simultaneously undercuts the ability to develop younger players. You have to make an honest attempt to pick up OL/DL talent --- whatever is there --- when OL and DL are your weaknesses. Instead we got glamor picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 This is something the Bills have not done. The last time the Bills used a first day pick on an interior offensive lineman? 1995, Rueben Brown, G, Pitt. 583275[/snapback] honestly, i have no problem with that........ the problem lies in the fact we haven't high quality tackles in forever.......you spend your money on the bookends, if the right center comes along you spend the money on that, but guards can be plugged in IF the pieces around them are solid.......that is the position you don't want to overpay for....... but given the current situation the bills have, i have no problem drafting/spending on guards -- they just need to do something to make it better and we don't have time to build from the tackles in....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 and two first rounders on what is often considered the most dominant left side in the NFL.......... 583262[/snapback] But are you saying that Mike Williams is automatically better than Sean Locklear, because Mike was a first-rounder? And what about the Patriots? The thing about the Steelers you will also find, beyond the draft level of the players, is some amount of "consistency." The "newest" of the players on the line has been starting that position for the Steelers for 2 years. Right to left, years starting for the Steelers in the position they are currently playing: 2,3,5,8,6. The left side of the line has been playing together for 5 years, and it's clear that changes are "staggared." If you look at some of the other highly successful lines in the NFL (Denver comes immediately to mind) you will find that same formula, with rare exception. San Diego's offense did pretty well last year even though they completely blew up their line. That is what has frustrated me about the Bills: constant tinkering. At this point I would not scream too loudly if they decided to "blow up the line," but I'm not going to expect great things out of the chute even if they end up with "Day 1 players" starting every position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Eric Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I can think of two that were fiirst rounders and pro bowlers: Pace Ogden Wasn't Jones also a first rounder? 583270[/snapback] Tony Mandarich ? Oh? Sorry, wrong thread. I thought this was the OL first rounder big bust thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kultarr Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Pro Bowl selection tells you nothing about talent on OL. 583283[/snapback] I disagree. The players on the field know who the monsters are. And, bad players, whatever the position, do not appear in the Pro Bowl. People used to ridicule Ruben Brown about making the Pro Bowl, but when it was 3rd and 1 and you wanted a guy that would win his one-on-one match-up most of the time, plowing his guy 3 yards downfield, Ruben was a man against boys. On the other hand, for example, the Patriots don't have any Pro Bowl lineman. All they do is win Super Bowls. So, clearly, being invited to the Pro Bowl is not everything -- but it is certainly not "nothing" either. But, to be clear, I'm not saying one must have 5 Pro Bowlers and 5 1st rounders in order to have any chance. Again, that's obviously not true. One can certainly get by with less than that. The point is simply that extrapolating from the Mike Williams bust pick, that no good can possibly come from spending a high draft pick on the OL, just doesn't add up. Another point: Having a Jim McNally around will help develop raw talents (e.g. Peters), but it isn't a cure all and cannot correct guys without the necessary talent and dedication. Blaming the position coach for lack of talent doesn't make much sense either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts