dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 You acquire players through free agency, which is half of your roster, based on what they are worth to you in dollar figures, what they and their agents will accept as payment to join your team, and their talent on the field in direct relationship to those other two things. They are as integral to each other as they could possibly be. 555793[/snapback] this is my bugaboo, so i'll jump in -- knowledge of the intricacies of the cap is the most overrated thing in football. draft and sign good players, hire good coaches, and things will take care of themselves. you have to remember that the bills aren't going to have cap problems anyway, because they have virtually no money invested in the qb postion, which is the greatest cap space eater. and they won't have money invested in it for some time to come. same goes for running back. the biggest space eater, mike williams, is gone. to reiterate what i said elsewhere, the notion that there is their is this mysterious and arcane knowledge of the cap reserved for the chosen few is absolutely ridiculous. it's simple freakin' arithmetic, not theoretical physics. also, recall that the recently fired high thetan of cap management and all of its arcana had a goddamn BA in english from indiana college in PA and spent a good amount of time afterward as a high school english teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 What does Marv need to know about salary caps? Nothing. He goes to his salary cap guy and says "We want Xxxx Xxxxxxxxxx. Now make it happen." I mean, Donald Trump doesn't sit there and write the friggin' legal contract. He says "I want to build there. Now go make it happen." 555774[/snapback] The cap is not just a budget. It is not simple accounting. The only way to manage the cap is to understand a players worth in cap dollars. If you don't, you'll have guys like Sam Rogers, John Holocek and John Fina dragging you into "cap jail". This is something Marv knows absolutely nothing about, but don't worry people will once again be free to bring in protest signs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 What I want a GM to say, is that I am directly involved in player movements and I know the importance of the salary cap while developing a roster. I've spent the last several years with a good idea of the talent around the league and how it works within the cap. I am going to work with my coach who will be here for the remaining three years on his contract and has my full backing but I will not be micro-managing the team. I have a clear vision for this team, and we're going to be _____. The strength of any team is in the trenches, anyone can see that, and we clearly have to get better on both sides of the ball in that area even if we need to revamp the entire OL and DL. We want players who want to be champions as Buffalo Bills and committed to winning in Buffalo and anyone that doesn't want to be here will be shown the door. 555833[/snapback] Do you think Marv disagrees with any of those points? Run and stop the run, baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 this is my bugaboo, so i'll jump in -- knowledge of the intricacies of the cap is the most overrated thing in football. draft and sign good players, hire good coaches, and things will take care of themselves. you have to remember that the bills aren't going to have cap problems anyway, because they have virtually no money invested in the qb postion, which is the greatest cap space eater. and they won't have money invested in it for some time to come. same goes for running back. the biggest space eater, mike williams, is gone. to reiterate what i said elsewhere, the notion that there is their is this mysterious and arcane knowledge of the cap reserved for the chosen few is absolutely ridiculous. it's simple freakin' arithmetic, not theoretical physics. also, recall that the recently fired high thetan of cap management and all of its arcana had a goddamn BA in english from indiana college in PA and spent a good amount of time afterward as a high school english teacher. 555843[/snapback] Thank you John Butler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuyInMalta Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 The cap is not just a budget. It is not simple accounting. The only way to manage the cap is to understand a players worth in cap dollars. If you don't, you'll have guys like Sam Rogers, John Holocek and John Fina dragging you into "cap jail". This is something Marv knows absolutely nothing about, but don't worry people will once again be free to bring in protest signs.. 555846[/snapback] Maybe Marv will hire Clumpy to work the numbers for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 don't worry people will once again be free to bring in protest signs.. 555846[/snapback] Which is all we really care about anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Thank you John Butler. 555849[/snapback] Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Do you think Marv disagrees with any of those points? Run and stop the run, baby! 555847[/snapback] He didn't say anything like that. I wanted Jack Youngblood. He was Henny Youngman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 The cap is not just a budget. It is not simple accounting. The only way to manage the cap is to understand a players worth in cap dollars. If you don't, you'll have guys like Sam Rogers, John Holocek and John Fina dragging you into "cap jail". This is something Marv knows absolutely nothing about, but don't worry people will once again be free to bring in protest signs.. 555846[/snapback] Just because he hasn't been working for a team, working caps, doesn't mean he hasn't spent a great deal of time studying this situation. You know, the same things were said about Joe Gibbs two years ago -- he hadn't been in football since the pre-free agency period. And Gibbs was mangaing race cars -- not still working around football, which Levy has been doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 This isn't a shot at the orgainization but between the GM and Owner we now have 168 years between the two of them. I not really sure how folks can claim these guys don't have the experience. 555675[/snapback] well, a first grade class has 30 years of school experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Thank you John Butler. 555849[/snapback] To be honest, I think pointing to Butler's problems is less germain today. The "dark secrets" of cap management have pretty much been worked out by teams today and there's not much mystery to it, like there was in the early 1990s. The Bills are in pretty good shape, capwise, so at least Marv's not starting from behind the 8-Ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Exactly. 555855[/snapback] spare me. first of all, none of you have any response to my point. i said draft well and sign good free agents. any critic of butler that's honest with himself wouldn't resort to cap gobbledygook and would instead complain about the quality of the players he (re)signed. butler was definitely more good than bad, but john fina didn't deserve the huge amount of money he got after the 1999 season. that's player evaluation, not "caponomics" (i shudder using that word). if fina was a great player and butler resigned him, not a one of you would be complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Just because he hasn't been working for a team, working caps, doesn't mean he hasn't spent a great deal of time studying this situation. You know, the same things were said about Joe Gibbs two years ago -- he hadn't been in football since the pre-free agency period began. And Gibbs was mangaing race cars -- not still working around football, which Levy has been doing. 555858[/snapback] Race cars do not have salary caps. Gibbs is currently a coach, who doesn't deal with salary caps. Vinny Cerrato manages the cap for Gibbs. Hire Vinny Cerrato as our GM, make Marv the President and I'd be jumping for joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 To be honest, I think pointing to Butler's problems is less germain today. The "dark secrets" of cap management have pretty much been worked out by teams today and there's not much mystery to it, like there was in the early 1990s. The Bills are in pretty good shape, capwise, so at least Marv's not starting from behind the 8-Ball. 555862[/snapback] No, the reason we lost Pat Williams is not because Tom Donohoe hates linemen and doesnt think run stoppers are important. It;s because he felt he cost too much money on the cap. It screwed our entire season. The reason Mike Williams is messing with the Bills is because he cost too much on the cap. The reason we're in trouble at WR is because Moulds costs too much on the cap. The reason we didn't sign a free agent guard better than Bennie Anderson last year was because they were asking too much on the cap or because TD thought they were asking too much on the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hire Vinny Cerrato as our GM, make Marv the President and I'd be jumping for joy. 555869[/snapback] now THAT would be a popular move.! that guy is a complete disaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Race cars do not have salary caps. Gibbs is currently coach, who doesn't deal with salary caps. Vinny Cerrato manages the cap for Gibbs. Hire Vinny Cerrato as our GM, make Marv the President and I'd be jumping for joy. 555869[/snapback] Gibbs selects the players -- much like Marv will. I am pretty sure Marv said he will not be dealing with the cap anyway -- just like Gibbs. My point is that we have every reason to believe that Marv is most familiar with free agency than Gibbs was two years ago, when he re-took the Deadskins' job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Vinny Cerrato manages the cap for Gibbs. Hire Vinny Cerrato as our GM, make Marv the President and I'd be jumping for joy. 555869[/snapback] Yeah, Cerrato has done a masterful job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Listen, guys, call me crazy (wait, I call myself crazy) but Marv did coach his way to 4 Superbowls. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, he has an idea in mind of what types of players can get us there? Too hard? I'll break it down: He draws on his lifetime of experience to align the current roster with what he believes a winning team should be doing. Tomorrow isnt promised to anyone young or old. Give him his chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 spare me. first of all, none of you have any response to my point. i said draft well and sign good free agents. any critic of butler that's honest with himself wouldn't resort to cap gobbledygook and would instead complain about the quality of the players he (re)signed. butler was definitely more good than bad, but john fina didn't deserve the huge amount of money he got after the 1999 season. that's player evaluation, not "caponomics" (i shudder using that word). if fina was a great player and butler resigned him, not a one of you would be complaining. 555866[/snapback] Ummm... that's what people mean by the CAP! Player evaluations under the cap. Ostroski was a bad player because he wasnt worth his cap figure. Because we couldnt get other players because a slob was taking up too much of our cap. That's as much a cap problem as a talent problem. How can you argue otherwise? All players are worth it or not worth it because of their cap figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 now THAT would be a popular move.! that guy is a complete disaster! 555876[/snapback] he is? That team is LOADED. Edit: WOW, looking at that page, the Jets and fish are FOCKED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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