How to determine if JP is qb of future?

[jahnyc]

This situation is bringing back memories of RJ. I always thought part of the reason RJ was not meeting expectations was the poor play of the oline, which resulted in RJ not having enought time to throw the ball. Ultimately, this was a factor but not the root cause of RJ's difficulties. Here we are again in 2005, and I am now wondering if JP's performance thus far is directly related to the poor play of the o-line or something with JP (i.e., his accuracy).

 

How does the team figure out if he can be a quality qb in the NFL without next year being another learning experience year at the expense of the team?

[Guest BackInDaDay]

This situation is bringing back memories of RJ.  I always thought part of the reason RJ was not meeting expectations was the poor play of the oline, which resulted in RJ not having enought time to throw the ball.  Ultimately, this was a factor but not the root cause of RJ's difficulties.  Here we are again in 2005, and I am now wondering if JP's performance thus far is directly related to the poor play of  the o-line or something with JP (i.e., his accuracy).

 

How does the team figure out if he can be a quality qb in the NFL without next year being another learning experience year at the expense of the team?

533731[/snapback]

 

Losman has many tools that can be coached but not taught. Strong arm, quickness, and agility to name a few. The accuracy is off because his timing is off. When he knows where he wants to throw it he pulls the trigger and puts it where he wants. When he's uncertain his rythm is upset, and poor mechanics follow. The uncertainty will lessen and his accuracy will increase.

 

The kid's a keeper but we have to design gameplans that put him in a balanced attack so opponents don't dictate where he can throw. Other coaches teams know how they'd defend an inexperienced QB, and they defend JP accordingly. Knowing this, our coaches have to their plan with their own. Give him a running game, and a less predictable passing attack - his progressions will find a 1st or 2nd option open more often. Then watch his timing, accuracy and confidence build.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I think the key here if we are trying to win next year regarding the QB position are:

 

1. Realize that no QB wins it on their own.

 

Whether he is a great one like Elway who could not fet over the top until Terrel Davis and the rest of the team got it together. Like pedestrian QBs like Trent Dilfer being part of a great Ravens team led by the D (and even considering great QBs like Peyton Manning who has not even appeared in an SB game and finally has a shot this year with one of the grestest WRs ever in Harrison catching the ball, an annual 100 yd. rusher in Edggering, a make ever kick idiot like Vanderjagt, Bill Polian assessing and signing great contracts for ST players and depth and finally one of the best D HCs in the league crafting Indy's D into a league leading unit he may FINALLY make it to the big game if his luck holds) there needs to be a realization that the Bills QB needs a TEAM around him so he plays a useful but not leading role on this team.

 

If our plan is to have the next Jim Kelly or more than an adequate QB in order to make the playoffs or the SB it isn't likely at all to happen in almost any case. The primary focus needs to be on building a winning team rather than a focus on the QB position.

 

2. Make JP earn the job.

 

It will be great if JP performs well enough next pre-season to deserve the starting job, but Holcomb or whoever needs to come into camp with the idea of starting on their mind and really be allowed to compete for the job. Next year should not be a learning year for JP if only because if he needs to learn he is going to have to do it from the bench, in practice, when injuries to the starter occur or if he merits it as a sparkplug brought into the game if the starter falters (though I think the Bills should be reluctant to replace the starter if they have decided the starter can do the job. if the starter needs to be replaced a lot by a sparkplug its time to look for a new starter.

 

If JP earns the job he has it, it not he needs to wait his turn rather than us merely use our games for him to practice for the future.

[PromoTheRobot]

Here's a suggestion. Let's cut JP and let him go to another team. If he succeeds, then we'll know he's our QB of the future...uh, wait a minute...never mind.

 

PTR

[ChasBB]

This situation is bringing back memories of RJ.  I always thought part of the reason RJ was not meeting expectations was the poor play of the oline, which resulted in RJ not having enought time to throw the ball.  Ultimately, this was a factor but not the root cause of RJ's difficulties.  Here we are again in 2005, and I am now wondering if JP's performance thus far is directly related to the poor play of  the o-line or something with JP (i.e., his accuracy).

 

How does the team figure out if he can be a quality qb in the NFL without next year being another learning experience year at the expense of the team?

533731[/snapback]

He's essentially a rookie after having missed most of the season last year. I would expect some bad throws/decisions from him this year -- all season long. Remember how Eli Manning looked last year? Awful. This year is a different story. JP's progress this season alone is very positive. This, despite having virtually no protection and no help from the defense as was promised. Additionally, you have an entire organization that is in disarray with potentially major changes coming at season's end. Nevertheless, JP continues to show improvement. He just needs to play. If there's anyway he could have played a little hurt this weekend, I'd rather see that than Holcomb at this point. Hell, why not just let Matthews take the game -- he worked with the team for a couple of years now -- give the guy at least one start if you're gonna pull JP out. I think JP will eventually become a very solid quarterback. The only way he's going to learn is to play.

[shibuya]

JP is unjudgeable based upon the fact that the entire OL deserves to be shot

[diver]

Its a very tough call. Its like rolling the dice. I keep telling everyone that he will succeed but there are many who say not. Just seeing the time Brady had compared to the time JP had was enough for me to say you gotta help JP out. Too high a pick not to give it another year. What team did Brett Farve start on? And look how he ended up. Winning on a different team.

[Coach Tuesday]

Losman has many tools that can be coached but not taught.  Strong arm, quickness, and agility to name a few.  The accuracy is off because his timing is off.  When he knows where he wants to throw it he pulls the trigger and puts it where he wants.  When he's uncertain his rythm is upset, and poor mechanics follow.  The uncertainty will lessen and his accuracy will increase.

 

The kid's a keeper but we have to design gameplans that put him in a balanced attack so opponents don't dictate where he can throw.  Other coaches teams know how they'd defend an inexperienced QB, and they defend JP accordingly.  Knowing this, our coaches have to their plan with their own.  Give him a running game, and a less predictable passing attack - his progressions will find a 1st or 2nd option open more often.  Then watch his timing, accuracy and confidence build.

533744[/snapback]

 

Excellent post.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Excellent post.

533822[/snapback]

 

Thanks Coach.

 

There's an excellent article by the D&C's Leo Roth on TBD's News page. A couple quotes in there by 13 year vet Shane Matthews and Sam Wyche about how the only way to get better is to play.

 

Also, I see JP and I see a young Jake Plummer. Similar God-given talents. Similar OL and front office problems as Plummer faced in Arizona. The kid's gonna be a good one, just hope it's as a Bill.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Thanks Coach.

 

There's an excellent article by the D&C's Leo Roth on TBD's News page.  A couple quotes in there by 13 year vet Shane Matthews and Sam Wyche about how the only way to get better is to play. 

 

Also, I see JP and I see a young Jake Plummer.  Similar God-given talents.  Similar OL and front office problems as Plummer faced in Arizona.  The kid's gonna be a good one, just hope it's as a Bill.

533826[/snapback]

YES! And it's my greatest fear for the Bills that they will experience the same ups and downs that AZ had with Plummer and let Losman go to a winner:

Plummer, a second-round pick of the Cardinals in 1997, was 3-6 as a rookie starter, then guided Arizona to the playoffs the next year. But he could never get the Cardinals to the postseason again amid constant organizational upheaval.

 

Since signing with Denver, one of the NFL's model franchises, as a free agent in 2003, he has hit his stride under coach Mike Shanahan, breaking some of John Elway's records. He's an example of what a stable environment can mean for a quarterback.

This kid needs consistency and a place that really wants him to grow, on his own pace. We keep drilling it over and over and over again, but the coach, whether it's Mularkey or Captain Lou or Vanna White, needs to put him in a position to succeed. That means good protection. It means calling runs on first and goal from the one. It means rolling him out if that's a strength. It means calling a QB draw if he can take it to the house with his legs. It means not juggling around the line, moving a career tackle to LG and hoping it works.

 

Some guys like Simon have made valid arguments in MM's defense but I think it's being disproven with every game that Mularkey knows how to manage a game and a young QB.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

YES!  And it's my greatest fear for the Bills that they will experience the same ups and downs that AZ had with Plummer and let Losman go to a winner:

 

This kid needs consistency and a place that really wants him to grow, on his own pace.  We keep drilling it over and over and over again, but the coach, whether it's Mularkey or Captain Lou or Vanna White, needs to put him in a position to succeed.  That means good protection.  It means calling runs on first and goal from the one.  It means rolling him out if that's a strength.  It means calling a QB draw if he can take it to the house with his legs.  It means not juggling around the line, moving a career tackle to LG and hoping it works.

 

Some guys like Simon have made valid arguments in MM's defense but I think it's being disproven with every game that Mularkey knows how to manage a game and a young QB.

533866[/snapback]

 

Just heard Carl Banks on the radio discussing the maturation of young QBs. The question was posed about Eli Mannings lack of good judgement in some circumstances. Banks related Dick Vermeil's opinion that it takes about 35 starts before you know your QB can play. By that time he's seen most everything he can see, and the coach has a better gauge of his player.

 

35 starts. Think JP will see even 16 more starts on a bad 2006 Bills' team?

[Ozymandius]

"Here's a suggestion. Let's cut JP and let him go to another team. If he succeeds, then we'll know he's our QB of the future...uh, wait a minute...never mind."

 

I wouldn't be too upset by this. JP's got some tools but he's no phenom. He's going to take 3-4 years to develop just like most everyone else, and if we're lucky, he can be a Jake Plummer (I like that comparison a lot). Sigh. I wish we had just picked up a good vet (see what the Vikes are doing with Brad Johnson) and used those three draft picks we used on JP to upgrade the lines. I'm just tired of waiting for a winning season, and with a young erratic QB like JP, that's what we're going to do. Wait.

[duey]

Has anyone considered the possibility that a new GM and coach may not want JP as their QB?

[Max Fischer]

Sure fire way to find out if JP matches up well with other QBs:

 

1. Put six angry Bulls side-by-side in individual pens;

 

2. Place QB wearing a red waving cape within four feet of center pen;

 

3. Release Bulls as soon as ball is hiked and see if the QB can throw the ball into one of three bins that open for only half a second.

 

If they do better than JP (and survive) then they're our QB.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Sure fire way to find out if JP matches up well with other QBs:

 

1.  Put six angry Bulls side-by-side in individual pens;

 

2.  Place QB wearing a red waving cape within four feet of center pen;

 

3.  Release Bulls as soon as ball is hiked and see if the QB can throw the ball into one of three bins that open for only half a second. 

 

If they do better than JP (and survive) then they're our QB.

534184[/snapback]

 

 

Yeah, it's tough enough to throw strikes, but try doing it with home-plate moving and bats being thrown at you.