GG Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 i did not suggest that we should have traded our 2nd and 4th for 4 spot bump -- that would be over-paying........we should have traded our 2nd, 5th, and 6th, which would have been an equitable trade....... 486074[/snapback] Of course you wouldn't suggest overpaying because you're the super GM. You can ignore the reality that the NFL draft day market is established that to move up in the second round, you have to give up a 4th rounder. Lions Get ---- 2nd round, No. 37: Shaun Cody, DT, Southern California Titans Get--- 2nd round, No. 41: Michael Roos, OT, Eastern Washington and 4th round, No. 113: David Stewart, OT, Mississippi State Seahawks Get - 2nd round, No. 45: Lofa Tatupu, LB, Southern California Panthers Get -- 2nd round, No. 54: Eric Shelton, RB, Louisville and 4th round, No. 121: Stefan Lefors, QB, Louisville But you'll be able to convince the other GM that he should give you less than a 4th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 But you'll be able to convince the other GM that he should give you less than a 4th rounder. 486280[/snapback] Why not? His "return to the glory days" path has us trading a 5th and 7th rounder to Indy for their entire offensive line. Indy offered Manning if we added a 3rd rounder, but Manning played hardball and wouldn't accept the veteran minimum salary that John Abraham, Terrell Owens and Dwight Freeney accepted in coming here....and he figured he could get better QB talent with that 3rd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeOiler Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Let me suggest Brian Cashman or Billy Beane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 GM/Asst GM: Badolbilz/Lori Head Coach: AKC Def. Coord.: MarkVI Secondary Coach: Simon 484360[/snapback] dang make me the OC, I know you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 IIRC, TD signed a new contract. But if he wanted to return to football, Dan Reeves might be a decent chioce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Of course you wouldn't suggest overpaying because you're the super GM. You can ignore the reality that the NFL draft day market is established that to move up in the second round, you have to give up a 4th rounder. Lions Get ---- 2nd round, No. 37: Shaun Cody, DT, Southern California Titans Get--- 2nd round, No. 41: Michael Roos, OT, Eastern Washington and 4th round, No. 113: David Stewart, OT, Mississippi State Seahawks Get - 2nd round, No. 45: Lofa Tatupu, LB, Southern California Panthers Get -- 2nd round, No. 54: Eric Shelton, RB, Louisville and 4th round, No. 121: Stefan Lefors, QB, Louisville But you'll be able to convince the other GM that he should give you less than a 4th rounder. 486280[/snapback] where do you get these make-believe rules about the draft day market? the same place you got your make-believe story about the bills attempting to move up (which i see you still can't prove)? here is one for you from the '04 draft: "Indianapolis traded its second- and fifth-round picks (Nos. 59 and 161) to Cleveland for the Browns' third-, fifth- and sixth-round picks (Nos. 68, 141 and 173)." cleveland didn't move up in the 2nd round in fact -- they traded up INTO the 2nd round from a 3rd round pick without giving up a 4th!!.......and you just said that was impossible, given the rules!! forgot your "established rules".......all you need to know is this: http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm breaking down the trades you listed: lions/titans trade -- lions give 558 points and receive 530 points seahawks/panthers trade -- seahawks give 458 points and receive 450 points potential bills/green bay trade -- bills give 393.6 points and receive 390 points see how that works? the proposed trade i offered was not unreasonable at all.........and we'd be in a much better position today if it had been done....... and in case you want give up your arguement that trading up was impossible and flog on me for using pure hindsight........ http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=315915 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundy249 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Why not? Also, Polian was promoted from within, and was hard charger. 484400[/snapback] Dont get me wrong I think Polian was good but what has he won??? Bills 4 SB losses with a great team. Panthers...NFC championship loss Colts Underachievers who will find a way to blow it again this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 see how that works? the proposed trade i offered was not unreasonable at all.........and we'd be in a much better position today if it had been done....... In points value it was not necessarily unreasonable (though as the solicitor the discrepency in value is closer than the other trades). In your Indy/Cleveland example, who made the phone call? Was Indy looking to go down or Cleveland up? In practicality, it takes two to tango...You can refuse a trade at any time for any reason. Was Green Bay looking for extra mid-late 2nd day picks? They already had 2 5th rounders, 2 6th rounders and 2 7th rounders? Why would they want more? Green Bay could have shot down the deal because they were still pissed over us taking Losman? Do you have the war room transcripts where Green Bay offered your potential trade but TD said "NO?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 see how that works? the proposed trade i offered was not unreasonable at all.........and we'd be in a much better position today if it had been done....... and in case you want give up your arguement that trading up was impossible and flog on me for using pure hindsight........ 486344[/snapback] I don't know if we HAD be in a much better position, as drafting is a lottery and there are no guarantees if a player will turn out good....We might have had a better shot at being good.....but I do agree if we could have made a trade it would be better..... But then again, we tried to trade up to Jax pick to get Big Ben...but Jax wouldn't and picked up Reggie Always Injured Williams, who has done squat for them......I wish we could have got that trade going rather than this....... Bottom line is you need two teams to make a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 In points value it was not necessarily unreasonable (though as the solicitor the discrepency in value is closer than the other trades). In your Indy/Cleveland example, who made the phone call? Was Indy looking to go down or Cleveland up? In practicality, it takes two to tango...You can refuse a trade at any time for any reason. Was Green Bay looking for extra mid-late 2nd day picks? They already had 2 5th rounders, 2 6th rounders and 2 7th rounders? Why would they want more? Green Bay could have shot down the deal because they were still pissed over us taking Losman? Do you have the war room transcripts where Green Bay offered your potential trade but TD said "NO?" 486379[/snapback] they didn't already have a bunch of mid-2nd day picks.....they traded for them after.......in fact, they traded down THREE times! traded a 3rd for two 4ths traded a 4th for a 5th, 6th, and 7th traded a 6th for a 6th and 7th seems to be me they were looking to drop in the draft....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 they didn't already have a bunch of mid-2nd day picks.....they traded for them after.......in fact, they traded down THREE times! traded a 3rd for two 4ths traded a 4th for a 5th, 6th, and 7th traded a 6th for a 6th and 7th seems to be me they were looking to drop in the draft....... 486402[/snapback] Once they got to the 3rd....and did they deal with the Bills in any of those transactions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATBNG Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Who knows if the Bills, or anyone, could land Pioli, but just because he turned down one job doesn't mean he'll never take a GM job with another team. 485804[/snapback] Pioli just signed an extension to stay in New England this past summer after turning down a lucrative offer (3 million per year was reported) to be #1 in Seattle and then reupped to continue in his New England role. It doesn't mean he'll "never" take a GM position with another team, but I didn't suggest that. The point is that he's not a viable candidate now. I honestly don't know how much TD makes...is it anywhere near 3 million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 At 29-42 and no playoffs 5 plus years the question is somewhat bizarre. I would take Darcy Reiger at this point. Do you know how to evaluate talent on the offensive and defensive line in college football and FA? Do you know how to select those players? Are you good with numbers? Your in!! I don't care if it's someone from the CFL like Polian just get this idiot out of Buffalo. He's ruining the franchise. I would not fire MM at this point however. He can do better but even he knows why were losing games. He said it best last Sunday...hint hint TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 where do you get these make-believe rules about the draft day market? the same place you got your make-believe story about the bills attempting to move up (which i see you still can't prove)? here is one for you from the '04 draft: "Indianapolis traded its second- and fifth-round picks (Nos. 59 and 161) to Cleveland for the Browns' third-, fifth- and sixth-round picks (Nos. 68, 141 and 173)." cleveland didn't move up in the 2nd round in fact -- they traded up INTO the 2nd round from a 3rd round pick without giving up a 4th!!.......and you just said that was impossible, given the rules!! forgot your "established rules".......all you need to know is this: http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm breaking down the trades you listed: lions/titans trade -- lions give 558 points and receive 530 points seahawks/panthers trade -- seahawks give 458 points and receive 450 points potential bills/green bay trade -- bills give 393.6 points and receive 390 points see how that works? the proposed trade i offered was not unreasonable at all.........and we'd be in a much better position today if it had been done....... and in case you want give up your arguement that trading up was impossible and flog on me for using pure hindsight........ http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=315915 486344[/snapback] I see, it's that simple. The numbers say it's easy, so Donahoe should have lifted up the phone, and said, hey I'm giving you 393.6 points and I'm only getting 390 in a trade. You are an idiot for not doing this trade. Thanks for giving data for 2004 as a very good comparable for what the true market value was in 2005. I guess my make-believe market of real draft day trades aren't as real as nfl draft blitz's rankings of hypothetical trade value. Because I'm certain that the website went through exhaustive means to analyze each 8 round draft, obviously taking into account the relative depth of each draft and ranked each drafted player accordingly to his historical production. As to the draft day trade talk, it came from this board from someone who knew somebody in the Bills war room. I don't have any reason to believe or not believe that person, but I have a hard time believing that TD didn't have conversations with nearly every team ahead of them to see if something comes up. I'm guessing it's standard procedure on draft day - especially a day when he was trying to move Henry. Of course in your book, he was an idiot for not accepting a trade on that day, which would have netted him a 5th round pick, instead of holding out and getting a 3rd in a deeper draft next year. The thing that gets me is that Donahoe has made a lot of mistakes in his tenure, but you continue to manufacture truth in a continual effort to bash him. There's enough ammunition without going into your alternate realities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 if you want to make a claim do your own research to back it up......until then you haven't proved anything that shows the bills made an effort to trade up...... If you want to make the claim that the Bills made no effort to move up in the draft, then maybe you should provide the link. GG has long been an astute observer of the Bills and has posted many interesting insights over the years; he's been consistent, shown great willingness to examine all sides of the issues and is always honest and uncannily accurate with his opinions. If he says there was talk about it draft time then you can bet your ass that there was talk about it draft time. You, on the other hand, are obviously continuing to push the same agenda that you've been pushing on here for years. You constantly allow emotion to obliterate reason, you are always willing to spin any issue to support your singular position and if you told me my ass was on fire, I'd be inclined to finish whatever I was doing before I bothered to take a look. You've written more one-note threads than U2 has written one-note songs and you're so obsessed with your own agenda that you long ago lost any credibility you may have had. In essence you've become nothing more than a political hack whose repeated empty rhetoric has lost any real meaning. If you say apples and GG says oranges, everybody on this board knows good and damned well that oranges are the answer. And considering that on draft day Tom Donahoe might be considered the most active GM of anybody in the modern NFL, trying to imply that he made no effort to move up in the draft is a pretty ridiculous position to support, even for you. Cya P.S. Did you really post a link to some of your previous post-draft hindsight to prove that you weren't speaking in hindsight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Pioli just signed an extension to stay in New England this past summer after turning down a lucrative offer (3 million per year was reported) to be #1 in Seattle and then reupped to continue in his New England role. It doesn't mean he'll "never" take a GM position with another team, but I didn't suggest that. The point is that he's not a viable candidate now. I honestly don't know how much TD makes...is it anywhere near 3 million? 486479[/snapback] One of the reasons Pioli turned down the seattle job was because he wouldn't have his system in place....As long as Mike Holmgren was the coach, he and Scott would be at heads....Plus Scott would have got the Job of Mike, which means he is not going into a good situation..... But with the bills, if Scott gets to restart, and get his own coach and staff (Just like TD was allowed to get his with the firing of Wade Phillips), he might be willing to come for the 3M a year.....The question si will RWS give that kind of money for a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Eric Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I say we just fire Tom Clements. Our first drive was just about perfect. Then what did we do? Throw it all out the window? 484359[/snapback] No 300 yard games in 37 games. 11 straight without a 200 yard game Bledsoe, JP, Holcomb. Williams, Mularky The only thing that has not changed in the past 3 years are the GM and the anemic play of the OL, and the GM doesn't get paid to play on Sundays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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