Taro T Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Watching JP for the last 4 games, I've been getting just as frustrated as a lot of other posters and I'm sure the coaches as well. The thing is, it seems to me that most of JP's misses seem to be overthrows on passes to the middle of the field and too throwing too wide on sideline patterns (I know there are a few underthrows, but they seem to be in the minority.) Most of the drops and catches as well seem to be up near the target's head, not down on the numbers. The announcers have mentioned on several occasions that JP seems to have too much adrenalin or is getting too pumped up for the games. If he is in fact overthrowing the ball predominantly, what can the coaches do to try to get him to lower the throws a little, without taking the velocity off the ball? Could the coaches get him loaded up on caffeine in the practices so he's as wired in them as he is in the games? Could they have the receivers line up on practice plays a yard or 2 short of the line of scrimmage and have them run the route as if they had lined up at the line of scrimmage, so that when they run the route in the game it ends up where JP is throwing the ball? These suggestions are more in jest than serious, but the question is serious: what can they do to change JP's preparation to reduce the overthrows, if anything? Or do they just have to let the season progress and as he gets more comfortable in there, he'll stop overthrowing? Thanks, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You get one of those shock-collars like the ones used on dogs to get them to stop barking (and like the ones used on cats for entertainment purposes) and you make JP wear it. Every time he overthrows somebody (or just generally fugs up) give him a nice big jolt. It'll have him playing like Montana within a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You get one of those shock-collars like the ones used on dogs to get them to stop barking (and like the ones used on cats for entertainment purposes) and you make JP wear it. Every time he overthrows somebody (or just generally fugs up) give him a nice big jolt. It'll have him playing like Montana within a week. 462943[/snapback] Doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billfan63 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 It seems his worst throws are the ones where he has the most time. disturbing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 It seems his worst throws are the ones where he has the most time. disturbing 463073[/snapback] It's hard for me to really comment on that one, as he's only seemed to have time to throw on a handful of occassions. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 The Moulds bomb was SEVERELY overthrown. This is tending to be a problem for JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflo83 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 In all seriousness, he just doesn't have the long ball touch that Drew had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranimal Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 The Moulds bomb was SEVERELY overthrown. This is tending to be a problem for JP. 463484[/snapback] i have said this elsewhere but it appeared to me, a casual no credential having observer, that JP expected EM to continue vertical with his seam route and that EM read the safety over top and rounded off his pattern....when JP released the ball, he was clearly leading EM downfield and the play shows that EM was moving right to left expecting the ball to come in flat between the receivers on more of a deep crossing route. This to me is just completely on JP. This is the kind of thing an experienced QB anticipates. Again, he isn't the first green QB i have seen do this same exact thing. "Feel" for the game is something JP currently has none of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 i have said this elsewhere but it appeared to me, a casual no credential having observer, that JP expected EM to continue vertical with his seam route and that EM read the safety over top and rounded off his pattern....when JP released the ball, he was clearly leading EM downfield and the play shows that EM was moving right to left expecting the ball to come in flat between the receivers on more of a deep crossing route. This to me is just completely on JP. This is the kind of thing an experienced QB anticipates. Again, he isn't the first green QB i have seen do this same exact thing. "Feel" for the game is something JP currently has none of. 463497[/snapback] This is exactly what I saw too. I'm pretty sure JP let the ball go before EM rounded off his route, but he should have read the safety and seen the same thing EM did. Now I'm starting to think that Josh Reed was right in the Texans game when JP was reaming him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 In all seriousness, he just doesn't have the long ball touch that Drew had... 463495[/snapback] It's not just the long ones he seems to overthrow. Most throws - short, medium, and long, SEEM to me to be either wildly overthrow or thrown at the head of the receiver. If he could get his target lowered about 18 inches, I'd expect to see him completing more passes, especially given the way he rockets the ball. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranimal Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 It's not just the long ones he seems to overthrow. Most throws - short, medium, and long, SEEM to me to be either wildly overthrow or thrown at the head of the receiver. If he could get his target lowered about 18 inches, I'd expect to see him completing more passes, especially given the way he rockets the ball. Dave. 463621[/snapback] Hey Dave, i gotta say, in my opinion, that diving throw out of the end zone should have been caught and would have made the highlights everywhere. Sheldon just plain dropped a good pass there. From the back of the endzone camera you can see that JP is just waiting and waiting for Sheldon to get a little separation from the LB that was covering him. JP was right on the money on that play, he could see it would develop and waited for it to do so....almost at the expense of a safety mind you. But to be honest the throw was amazingly accurate for the circumstances it was thrown from. I was cursing sheldon on that one. Catch the damned ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hey Dave, i gotta say, in my opinion, that diving throw out of the end zone should have been caught and would have made the highlights everywhere. Sheldon just plain dropped a good pass there. From the back of the endzone camera you can see that JP is just waiting and waiting for Sheldon to get a little separation from the LB that was covering him. JP was right on the money on that play, he could see it would develop and waited for it to do so....almost at the expense of a safety mind you. But to be honest the throw was amazingly accurate for the circumstances it was thrown from. I was cursing sheldon on that one. Catch the damned ball. 463632[/snapback] You're absolutely right. Sheldon should have caught the ball on that pass. JP has made some good throws this season (the long one to Evans in the first game comes to mind immediately), it's just that he seems to be overthrowing most of his passes (it may just be the beer remembering the high throws and not the others, but I definitely have a perception that his throws tend to be higher or wider than necessary). Going back to my original post in this thread, I was wondering if there was anything the coaching staff could work with him on (if in fact he really is overthrowing a significant portion of his throws) or if it is something that he just has to work through by getting more experience on the field. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I don't care about overthrows. Look, before he was drafted every college and pro scout knew he was an int avoider and might be the next Farve or the next Leaf. The deal now is to wise up JP to the NFL game. I've already come to the opinion that he's not a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranimal Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You're absolutely right. Sheldon should have caught the ball on that pass. JP has made some good throws this season (the long one to Evans in the first game comes to mind immediately), it's just that he seems to be overthrowing most of his passes (it may just be the beer remembering the high throws and not the others, but I definitely have a perception that his throws tend to be higher or wider than necessary). Going back to my original post in this thread, I was wondering if there was anything the coaching staff could work with him on (if in fact he really is overthrowing a significant portion of his throws) or if it is something that he just has to work through by getting more experience on the field. Dave. 463678[/snapback] I hate to admit this, but Theisman (oh gad!!!) actually made a point about another QB with the mechanics about throwing high. I believe he said it was a simple change to the position of the elbow during the throw. it might be a natural flaw in JP's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 "Feel" for the game is something JP currently has none of. 463497[/snapback] And that is why he needs to play in the 4th qtr to get that emotions going... MM should stop yanking him out....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Cut him off at the knees and Flutie size him... I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination--but a lower release point--either repositioning the elbow or hanging on a millisecond longer before release-- would seem to be a key. Braves fans--maybe we can contract with Leo Mazzone to help JP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I hate to admit this, but Theisman (oh gad!!!) actually made a point about another QB with the mechanics about throwing high. I believe he said it was a simple change to the position of the elbow during the throw. it might be a natural flaw in JP's game. 463687[/snapback] It's usually footwork. Not properly stepping into the throw. The ball tends to go high. Look at high fast ball pictchers. Same thing. Losman is using his arm strength and throwing too much off the back foot. It's tough to really tell, but he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 It's usually footwork. Not properly stepping into the throw. The ball tends to go high. Look at high fast ball pictchers. Same thing. Losman is using his arm strength and throwing too much off the back foot. It's tough to really tell, but he does. 463764[/snapback] That sounds pretty reasonable as to why throws are going high. Any idea on how they can speed up his getting comfortable in the pocket and stepping into the throw? (I mean other than getting the O-Line to give him some time back there on a regular basis!) Would running some designed rollouts WITH the protection moving with him help? Thanks, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 That sounds pretty reasonable as to why throws are going high. Any idea on how they can speed up his getting comfortable in the pocket and stepping into the throw? (I mean other than getting the O-Line to give him some time back there on a regular basis!) Would running some designed rollouts WITH the protection moving with him help? Thanks, Dave. 463793[/snapback] When you are moving and rolling, you tend to get off balance a little, and that also forces either the hop throw that JP was doing during preseason or again laying back too much and throwing off the back. The best way to correct it, is leave him in the pocket, give him a reduced number of reads and then have him run if possible. Right now he is locking onto his prime receiver anyhow, so alternate routes don't matter. If you send three guys in route, give him only two reads, it might help. But the rollouts, will only make the problem worse especially if going downfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 That sounds pretty reasonable as to why throws are going high. Any idea on how they can speed up his getting comfortable in the pocket and stepping into the throw? (I mean other than getting the O-Line to give him some time back there on a regular basis!) Would running some designed rollouts WITH the protection moving with him help? Thanks, Dave. 463793[/snapback] According to the announcers though NO's D wanted to see JP moved out of the pocket as they felt his inaccuracy became more pronounced (as it does with most normal folks) when he is on the move. I'm not sure that designed rollouts actually help his accuracy UNLESS the cause of the problem is in fact that he is too hyped up and when he is on the move there is more of a flow to his throws than when he has time in the pocket and simply throws long. My sense from watching him is that JP's bad throws do tend to come because he is simply over-excited. Unfortunately for those of us getting frustrated the best cures for JP may well be time and experience rather than a mechanical fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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