BuffOrange Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yes, because he isn't putting a young inexperienced QB in a position to succeed, and call plays that work. To constantly call for 30 yard patterns on first down at the beginning of games is stupid and poor coaching. 457493[/snapback] Constantly? That's just not true. Perhaps you've missed the fifty 8-yd out patterns that have been thrown over WR's heads the last two weeks. And I don't remember anyone bitching about throwing downfield vs. Houston when they completed the deep strike to Evans on the first posession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Constantly? That's just not true. Perhaps you've missed the fifty 8-yd out patterns that have been thrown over WR's heads the last two weeks. And I don't remember anyone bitching about throwing downfield vs. Houston when they completed the deep strike to Evans on the first posession. 457511[/snapback] Yes, I did complain about the play calling inside the 20. But when the coach comes out and throws on the 1st 7 1st down plays two weeks in a row, and is only running on 50% of the plays against Atlanta, and 20% against Tampa, then yes it is a play calling issue. Also, I don't remember seeing any patterns under 15 yards on first down, until the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeRay Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 The playcalling is very unrealistic after 3 games. ????? If JP is even close to being accurate on just 6-7% more of the passes that he's been way off the mark on, then your post is singing the praises of the grat play calling. You don't think Kelly Holcomb would move this offense any better than JP right now??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 If 457517[/snapback] IF ?? The pass protection has been stellar. Get the immobile Holcomb in there. Problem solved. ( sarcasm ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 IF ?? The pass protection has been stellar. Get the immobile Holcomb in there. Problem solved. 457527[/snapback] If your aunt had balls...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 If your aunt had balls...... 457534[/snapback] Exactly. Obviously, you and Stella have met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Correct. So throw the ball 20-30 yards downfield to a receiver who isn't open. That will work. Ignore the TE who is wide open 6-10 yards downfield. That doesn't look good on Sportscenter. 457436[/snapback] Good post Mark VI. I do think the O gameplan already emphasises the short to medium route passing attack. These routes are probably the first in JP's progressions. Obvious passing downs are another animal, which your running game can help you avoid, but you can't run with 8 in the box. You have to get the D off the LOS by mixing in the quick passes. Currently, I doubt JP is being given more than 2 downfield receivers and an outlet to choose from on these types of pass plays. I think what's happenning is this... The window opens and closes so quickly on those routes with defenders, seemingly, everywhere. So when JP decides not to chance a throw, he jumps to his next receiver further downfield (Remember, pass patterns are combined with the timing of the QB's progressions. The idea being that if you miss the first train, you have time to run up the stairs and catch the next one. ), and so on. JP is anxious back there - quick to switch from receiver to receiver because he's not comfortable in letting it fly anywhere! Opposing coaches know how they'd try to make their young, inexperienced QB comfortable, and are using that knowledge to make our's miserable. It's a necessary stage in JP's maturation process as an NFL QB. Coach Mularkey and Clements offensive gameplans are confined by the parameters of JP's progress from Sunday to Sunday. It's such a dynamic growth period for their QB, that they have to tread the fine line between asking too much, and not asking enough. Soon our QB will be able to contribute more, then you'll see 250 yard rushing days, no doubt. Hang in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 We ran the damn ball for 172 yards Sunday, which is pretty good. The problem is we need to supplement the running with some sort of passing game to keep drives alive, score TDs inside the redzone and start winning again. 457434[/snapback] We could score TDs in the endzone by running the ball....You have a RB who is running wild and on a 4th and 1 you want a QB sneak...especially when you got one earlier.....That play calling was too predictable and the Falcons were prepared for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I'm with buffOrange on this one. Plenty of plays have been called for example where the TE is open and JP is just not seeing it or getting it to him. There was also a play last week where the coverage took his pre snap read to the strong side of the field, yet Moulds was in the x position one on one and blew by his man only to stand alone near the endzone. The kid is not seeing the field yet. And I don't really blame him for this or expect him to have it all under control yet. When he rolls to his right so often, even on plays that weren't designed as such, he is shrinking the field to the point where the defense can tee off on many of these underneath routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I'm with buffOrange on this one. Plenty of plays have been called for example where the TE is open and JP is just not seeing it or getting it to him. There was also a play last week where the coverage took his pre snap read to the strong side of the field, yet Moulds was in the x position one on one and blew by his man only to stand alone near the endzone. The kid is not seeing the field yet. And I don't really blame him for this or expect him to have it all under control yet. When he rolls to his right so often, even on plays that weren't designed as such, he is shrinking the field to the point where the defense can tee off on many of these underneath routes. 457552[/snapback] The frustration meter is off the charts in the film-room, with Mould's only surpassed by Losman's. I still have a very good feeling about this kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 The frustration meter is off the charts in the film-room, with Mould's only surpassed by Losman's. I still have a very good feeling about this kid. 457580[/snapback] Me too! I'm going to be patient with his development. I just hope, as Jim Kelly pleaded, that the fans who go to the games understand this and stay with him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I was at the Bucs game and it was almost comical (if it wasn't so sad) how much JP was staring down receivers - that combined with running the same damn out pattern time after time just is a recipie for disaster. Sometimes the benefit of airing it out downfield every once in a while has nothing to do with actually making the completion - it is more about making the defense respect the deep throw and not sit on all the short routs. Plus with a young QB who you realistically assume is going to throw some ints - might as well throw them 40 yds down the field instead of into the hands of a charging LB/CB on a short out pattern who will potentially just waltz in for the score (which has almost happened multiple times this year). In the Bucs came after all those ridiculous amounts of out patterns I kept thinking to myself - well - maybe they are doing that over and over and over to eventually set them up for a hitch and go route. But I don't think they ever really threw downfield until in the 3rd quarter, and then I think it was just a go route and poorly executed (I turned to my brother and said - "The whole game they've been setting up THAT?"). The other point which is a great one is where is the play action? They need to do some things to stop defenses from just sitting on the short routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 The other point which is a great one is where is the play action? They need to do some things to stop defenses from just sitting on the short routes. 457592[/snapback] I commented on this after last week. With Willis having a big day, play-action could freeze a coverage man for an additional split-second. At this stage of JP's developement, and depending upon what the Falcons were doing defensively, that still may not have been a long enough window of opportunity to complete the pass. I didn't see it, so I don't know. Because we were able to run, I'm thinking they traded off some rush defense for pass defense, looking for turnovers. So there may have been more men in coverage than anticipated. 20-20 hindsight. As far as Ds sitting on the short routes, that's what I'm talking about when I say that our opponents know how our coaches are trying to bring JP along. They have to take inventory of what we can do offensively and marry that to what might work against the Saints. They know what to expect from Haslett. He's going to manage our rushes and take away JP's easy reads, but that type of 'sit back' D only works if your O is getting first downs. Otherwise you may give up too many yards and lose a field-position game. That said, Gray has to shore up our D, and our STs need to start making plays. If they these two units play better against NO, JP can go back to 'manage the game' mode. Then the running game, and all it brings with it, should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I actually think the coaches have done a semi-decent job using JP to set up the run game. Having the guy throw a few middle to deep patterns has helped keep the 8th man out of the box so far, giving Willis some running room (I didn't catch the Bucs game, so I can't comment on that one). Problem is, the kid isn't hitting those patterns. Unless he starts shaping up, opposing defenses aren't going to give a crap and stick 8 in the box regardless. It's only going to get tougher until JP shows he is capable of hitting enough passes, even against single coverage, to pull that safety back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I actually think the coaches have done a semi-decent job using JP to set up the run game. Having the guy throw a few middle to deep patterns has helped keep the 8th man out of the box so far, giving Willis some running room (I didn't catch the Bucs game, so I can't comment on that one). Problem is, the kid isn't hitting those patterns. Unless he starts shaping up, opposing defenses aren't going to give a crap and stick 8 in the box regardless. It's only going to get tougher until JP shows he is capable of hitting enough passes, even against single coverage, to pull that safety back. 457679[/snapback] Agreed. The key here is your 'capable of hitting enough passes' statement. There's only so much field out there - the same amount from Pop Warner to HS to college to the pros - but the athletes asked to protect it in the NFL are some of the quickest and fastest men on the planet. The only thing they fear are other athletes, as quick and fast as they are, running through their field with the football. Getting the football into the hands of these 'other athletes' is like asking a baseball pitcher to get the ball back quickly from the catcher, immediately set-up on the rubber, and throw a strike on the outside corner of a plate that moves from pitch to pitch. Now for excitement add a couple bat-boys darting towards him, violently flailing Louisville Slugger over their heads. JP has the backbone to get through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 JP has the backbone to get through this. 457723[/snapback] Couldn't agree more. He still needs help from the people wearing the headsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Couldn't agree more. He still needs help from the people wearing the headsets. 457734[/snapback] I gotta think they're putting him in the best place they can right now, considering his current limitations. The Saints may get off quickly due to the home-field thing, but I think our D will start earning their paychecks this week. Couple that with some above-average ST play, and a less than stellar NO defense and we've got a 2-2 record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill in Livonia Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Mark, I was at Sundays game and I tried to watch the o-line play. I couldn't really see it consistantly so I looked at a tape of the game. With the exception of a play that a defensive guy sailed by Teague to sack Losman, the line played pretty well. I especially kept an eye on Germane and he was OK. I concluded the O-line is not so bad. Can you straighten me out? GO BILLS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Mark, I was at Sundays game and I tried to watch the o-line play. I couldn't really see it consistantly so I looked at a tape of the game. With the exception of a play that a defensive guy sailed by Teague to sack Losman, the line played pretty well. I especially kept an eye on Germane and he was OK.I concluded the O-line is not so bad. Can you straighten me out? GO BILLS! 457817[/snapback] Agreed... People tend to go overboard when the Bills lose and look to blame people/things that aren't really to blame. The playcalling being a fine example. The OL (which I should point out NEEDS an upgrade if we ever want to be SB caliber) being another in last week's case. When you compare the ATL game to the Houston game, the only differences were defense, and JP's accuracy in the 1st half. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Can you straighten me out? 457817[/snapback] Don't worry, I'm sure he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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