drnykterstein Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 So people drive into our town now. There is nothing to do. So you get creative and find stupid things to do. You end up exploring some run down building and it ends up a fun night. or.. Go to the casino, because it big and shiny and has lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 So people drive into our town now. There is nothing to do. So you get creative and find stupid things to do. You end up exploring some run down building and it ends up a fun night. 409168[/snapback] I'll see you down at the Central Terminal on Friday at about 11PM. It will be a real hoot. You, me and about 100 people lining up to see who gets the rights to rob us and then kick the sh-- out of us! Next week if you are recovered, we can hit the grain mills after dark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I don't think the casinos are a cure-all. However, I think the article did point out something interesting. Unlike the Seneca Niagara, Buffalo wants the Senecas to operate the casino in Buffalo and THAT'S IT. Any hotels, shops, and other businesses would not be run by the Senecas. That way those businesses would be taxable, unlike the new hotel in Niagara Falls. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 BUFFALO HAS NO HOMETOWN SHINE. What shines in Buffalo? We love it here because this is where we are from but how does Buffalo stack up to other cities? There isn't a comparison. Our city loses 6% of it's population annually because we are such a horribly run city. I'm happy that you spend money in the community. I'm happy that you are supportive to the community. Our shine is the Bills. Our shine is the Sabres. Our shine is fuggin chicken wings. Outside that, this city died when the plant on route 5 shut down. I didn't make it that way, I just recognize it. 409021[/snapback] You left something out....the truly nice people. Bro, I am not an idealistic fool. I have lived in NYC/Long Island for my entire life. I have also been to Buffalo/WNY/RWS for 11 consecutive years. I have literally ALWAYS been treated with nothing but kindness. It is a different way of life. My wife has reasons for not wanting to relocate. I am not going to argue with her, but I think that at some point, we will live in WNY. I hope that I am correct. PS: You also omitted the unbelieveably cheap real estate prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 albright knoxdelaware park We have a zoo, that is slowly dying elmwood & chippewa the "Gin Mills" or just the fact that we call them that strange things like the buffalo colored musicians club our old buildings, Buffalo Central Terminal, Grain Mills, and countless other historical sites. the food the people the polish/irish/italian history of some of the neighborhoods that sign on military that say "acme nipple co." all these things i like about buffalo and would be overshadowed by a casino. 409147[/snapback] When was the last really nice art expose at the Gallery? I have a friend who works there and even he is dissappointed with the lack of commitment by them to push for more attractions. A great art gallery doesn't stay great with out constant attention being given to it. One year I went to the Art Gallery 7 times. Nothing changed once since then and nothing has drawn me back. Delaware park was great with Shakespeare in the park. Aside from that it has a dirty water hole with some grass. Nice park, but nothing to write home about. I won't argue against the zoo, it's educational, the first time. Yet what have they done to improve or even stay at even par since 1987? Elmwood has an artistic sense to it. It's my favorite place in the city. A nice coffee shop. Chippewa is a hot spot for alcholism and bad behavior. Classy fun usually lasts until about 2 am, then the fights start. Not to mention having to hang with the 18 year old party squad. Gin Mills? Come on man you are kidding with that one right? Historical sights? You ever go to the Buffalo Central Terminal? If you feel safe on the East side of Buffalo you are a strong strong man. Granted there is history in Buffalo, but you are watching a city die before your very eyes. The food is good, but it's good in Chicago or New York or Pittsburgh the same way. I thought Buffalo was as good as gets, but that's a facade that you'll soon bury as soon as you leave Buffalo. Nice people exist everywhere. I love the people here, but you just have to look for nice people and you can find them anywhere. Every city has history. Buffalo isn't the only one with history. Not to sound like a jerk, but have you ever left Buffalo? There is alot to discover. The Casino won't overshadow anything. It will become another part of it. People who go to the Falls to shop and see the sights still do exactly that. They just have an EXTRA draw with the casino which doesn't hurt anything. Niagara Falls is a prime example of the positves, why pretend they don't exist? Why make a negative? You should be happy that anyone wants to bring business to this city or to New York for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalfan Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Buffalo has been losing its tax base for 3 decades. Any new business would be helpful. And some businesses more helpful than others. The workforce in Buffalo is not skilled enough for most modern businesses. There is a lack of technically skilled people and a lack of creative people. Information technology firms, marketing or advertising firms, biogenetic firms and financial institutions would need to import a workforce. But, I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to move to Buffalo for a job. There are no amenities in the city....other than bars; housing is not attractive either. There are still race wars going on. And whole sections of the city are crime ridden, in particular the entire east side of Buffalo. If the Senecas are allowed to open and run the casino, I doubt that there will be tax dollars generated from it. Generally, tribes do not have to pay taxes because of treaties. So, the best you can expect from the casino would be unskilled work positions and service industry postions. These types of jobs generally do not improve an economy. The money that is pulled out by the casino, is money not available for local businesses, taxes, savings, investments and entrepreneurial endeavors. So, the area will continue to be dummied down and you'll see more politicians like Giambra who embodies these problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 So people drive into our town now. There is nothing to do. So you get creative and find stupid things to do. You end up exploring some run down building and it ends up a fun night. or.. Go to the casino, because it big and shiny and has lights. 409168[/snapback] How is the Casino bad because it's big and shiny? Dude, get out of your hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 If the Senecas are allowed to open and run the casino, I doubt that there will be tax dollars generated from it. Generally, tribes do not have to pay taxes because of treaties. So, the best you can expect from the casino would be unskilled work positions and service industry postions. These types of jobs generally do not improve an economy. 409304[/snapback] Incorrect they do pay taxes. If you'd like I'll generate a link to prove it, but they do pay taxes. I'm 100% certain of it. As a matter of fact there Niagara falls and Niagara county are fighting over there tax dollars. t-r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalfan Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Incorrect they do pay taxes. If you'd like I'll generate a link to prove it, but they do pay taxes. I'm 100% certain of it. .......409308[/snapback] You don't have to convince me, I think it's pedantic. I will still expect to see my Buffalo and Erie County property taxes increase every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 You don't have to convince me, I think it's pedantic. I will still expect to see my Buffalo and Erie County property taxes increase every year. 409315[/snapback] Sadly, I'm 100% sure that that is certain to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Our city loses 6% of it's population annually because we are such a horribly run city. By the same guys who think a casino is a good idea. Oh, but this time it's a stroke of genius. That sucking sound you hear will be a good amount of what little greenbacks there are in the area going into the money vacuum. If some coming out in minimum wages sounds like a good idea to you, best of luck with that. I'm sure the idiots who can't run the government responsibly now will become mensa members when a portion of your pissed-away dollars gets into their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I disagree with all of you. Casinos offer roughly 500-600 jobs. That's just in the Casino. Ask Niagara Falls or Niagara County if they mind having to collect millions of dollars in tax money annually. People cry that Buffalo will lose it's hometown shine, but it's those same people who left. I have a good idea for those people...Shut the F##@ up. Come here and support our economy. For those of you who bailed on this city because there was no good jobs 5-10-15 years ago, you have no right to criticize. You left and it's not your city anymore. I'm a poker dealer and I do have a bias. Everyone said, drugs and hookers and all other types of things were going to happen to Niagara Falls. All wrong. The area has benefited greatly because of the Casino. Go a step further and look at the Casino's in Irving and Salamanca. They have 150 more jobs than they did 3 years ago. They pay taxes. Our community benefits from a casino. If you don't like Casinos, it's really simple, DON'T GO. Don't support them. No one is going to miss you. No one cries that you don't come. If there were more of you than there were of us, the Casino would be out of business right now. But it's the fast growing business in WNY as well as the country. NOTE: Buffalo lost it's home town shine years ago. Buffalo is a faultering city on it's last legs. Buffalo can't even keep it's own parks open. Buffalo is so far in debt it's literally ridiculous that we even have an argument against something that is going to bring both tax money and jobs to the community. Ridiculous 408976[/snapback] I totally agree! The casino will bring jobs and some tax money to the city. There is actually still a pilot light burning in the city and some things are building slowly. How many remember when Chippewa St was only for hookers? Well, now it is wall to wall bars and clubs. People are actually building apartments and condos in the downtown area. I would not want to live in one, but JP does and so do a few more people each month. Congressman Brian Higgins is finally getting some slight movement on the waterfront and Peace Bridge. There is even recent talk of tearing down the Skyway. Is Bufffalo a vibrant city? Hell no! But there are some signs of life and things are slowly picking up in spite of the politicians. Anything that results in jobs and building activity is progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovey1961 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 /ranton The Senecas DO NOT pay any tax They are a sovergin nation according to treaties with the US Pataki and his cronies gave the Senecas the Convention Center and the land around it, anything that the Senecas do on that land can not be taxed What Niagara County and Niagara Falls are fighting about is the 25% "share" of a percentage of the gross profits from only the slot machines. This was negotited by NYS and the Seneca Nation The Nation pays X amount to NYS, NYS in turn "gives" 25% of that to the City or Niagara Falls to cover expenses related to the Casino Niagara County wants 60-75% of the CIty of Niagara Falls cut because 60-75% of the population live outside of the CIty proper The City was not in the negotions, it was Pataki and his cronies that gave the land to the Seneca Nation, and took all of those lands off the property tax rolls of the City. The City of Niagara Falls is the one that should be getting the 75% of the negotited revenues and the state shoud be getting 25% or less! This is only fair since Niagara Falls has lost millions in property taxes and the City should be the one that decides where the money goes not the county. But given the corruption in the current and previous City administations even if the City was getting the 75% the money would be funneled to "pet" projects of the existing/future adminstrations /rantoff Incorrect they do pay taxes. If you'd like I'll generate a link to prove it, but they do pay taxes. I'm 100% certain of it. As a matter of fact there Niagara falls and Niagara county are fighting over there tax dollars. t-r 409308[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 By the same guys who think a casino is a good idea. Oh, but this time it's a stroke of genius. That sucking sound you hear will be a good amount of what little greenbacks there are in the area going into the money vacuum. If some coming out in minimum wages sounds like a good idea to you, best of luck with that. I'm sure the idiots who can't run the government responsibly now will become mensa members when a portion of your pissed-away dollars gets into their hands. 409339[/snapback] Look, you have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever even been to a Casino? Most of the players there are old enough to remember the first Roosevelt. Further, if some schmuck wants to gamble away his 200 dollar paycheck I for one am not going to feel bad for him. It's like when dummies go out on friday night and spend all of their money getting drunk and impressing women. Do you feel bad for those people? If the answer is yes, you're missing a couple tall boys in your six pack. I've said this once already and I'll say it again, don't come. Tell all of your friends and family what a horrible idea the casinos are and see if they listen. I'll be willing to bet I'm dealing some of them pocket aces on friday night. The thing that amazes me about this argument is what has Buffalo become? What are you guys trying to save? Everything in the area is failing so why not give something, that has been proven to be succesful, a chance? Do you hear anyone in Niagara Falls complaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 /ranton The Senecas DO NOT pay any tax They are a sovergin nation according to treaties with the US Pataki and his cronies gave the Senecas the Convention Center and the land around it, anything that the Senecas do on that land can not be taxed What Niagara County and Niagara Falls are fighting about is the 25% "share" of a percentage of the gross profits from only the slot machines. This was negotited by NYS and the Seneca Nation The Nation pays X amount to NYS, NYS in turn "gives" 25% of that to the City or Niagara Falls to cover expenses related to the Casino Niagara County wants 60-75% of the CIty of Niagara Falls cut because 60-75% of the population live outside of the CIty proper The City was not in the negotions, it was Pataki and his cronies that gave the land to the Seneca Nation, and took all of those lands off the property tax rolls of the City. The City of Niagara Falls is the one that should be getting the 75% of the negotited revenues and the state shoud be getting 25% or less! 409374[/snapback] What you have just laid out pretty much sounds like a tax to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but if NYS gets a cut of the action and the County gets a cut of the action, how are they not benefitting? You can disect this argument to validate your points the same way I have, but the point of the matter is, CASINOS ARE PROFITABLE. If Pataki and his cronies hadn't of done what they had, where would the 2 or 3 million dollars have been generated from? It wouldn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 As a side note, I'd like to say I think the government in WNY is absolute crap and they have made about 50 million mistakes. The mistakes started 35 years ago and it's a downward spiral. If it doesn't work then it's cake on my face as well as theirs. I'm just willing to open my arms and embrace a proven winner. Casinos make money and that is precisely what wny needs. Something that makes money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfladave Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 /ranton The Senecas DO NOT pay any tax They are a sovergin nation according to treaties with the US Pataki and his cronies gave the Senecas the Convention Center and the land around it, anything that the Senecas do on that land can not be taxed What Niagara County and Niagara Falls are fighting about is the 25% "share" of a percentage of the gross profits from only the slot machines. This was negotited by NYS and the Seneca Nation The Nation pays X amount to NYS, NYS in turn "gives" 25% of that to the City or Niagara Falls to cover expenses related to the Casino Niagara County wants 60-75% of the CIty of Niagara Falls cut because 60-75% of the population live outside of the CIty proper The City was not in the negotions, it was Pataki and his cronies that gave the land to the Seneca Nation, and took all of those lands off the property tax rolls of the City. The City of Niagara Falls is the one that should be getting the 75% of the negotited revenues and the state shoud be getting 25% or less! This is only fair since Niagara Falls has lost millions in property taxes and the City should be the one that decides where the money goes not the county. But given the corruption in the current and previous City administations even if the City was getting the 75% the money would be funneled to "pet" projects of the existing/future adminstrations /rantoff 409374[/snapback] Slot machines account for the majority of a casinos profit. If I recall correctly the Casinos handed over $35 - 70 million in "benefits" last year in "slot benefits". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Look, you have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever even been to a Casino? Most of the players there are old enough to remember the first Roosevelt. Further, if some schmuck wants to gamble away his 200 dollar paycheck I for one am not going to feel bad for him. It's like when dummies go out on friday night and spend all of their money getting drunk and impressing women. Do you feel bad for those people? If the answer is yes, you're missing a couple tall boys in your six pack. I've said this once already and I'll say it again, don't come. Tell all of your friends and family what a horrible idea the casinos are and see if they listen. I'll be willing to bet I'm dealing some of them pocket aces on friday night. The thing that amazes me about this argument is what has Buffalo become? What are you guys trying to save? Everything in the area is failing so why not give something, that has been proven to be succesful, a chance? Do you hear anyone in Niagara Falls complaining? I was nearly old enough to gamble legally before you were born, so yeah, I been in just a few casinos in several countries. I don't feel a great deal for a guy who pisses away his paycheck; his family gets my sympathy, though. I have nothing against going to a casino or gambling in general. But if you think the payoff of a relatively small number jobs is worth letting a sovereign nation put a money vacuum in your town, you're not thinking it through. But like I said, I'm not trying to stop you, so best of luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#41 Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 Slot machines account for the majority of a casinos profit. If I recall correctly the Casinos handed over $35 - 70 million in "benefits" last year in "slot benefits". 409423[/snapback] It's 8% off of slot revenue currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I love how it all comes down to how much we can tax the Senecas. Like nothing is worth doing if we can't tax it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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