/dev/null Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 so like, why hasn't the price of motor oil doubled too? it comes from the same barrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Uh...OK.... (Steps away carefully) 406705[/snapback] something wrong with what i said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckey Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 High oil / gasoline prices are a good thing for this country. And having spent 15 years drilling oil wells I have some idea what I'm talking about. Here's the deal; there's only so much of the stuff, and sooner or later it'll run out. For years we've had relatively low prices for oil and gas. No one gave a thought to it. Drive to the store for a candy bar? No problem, hop in the car and go. Drive by yourself to work even when you can share with your neighbor? Yup, I'd rather be by myself. Gas mileage? What's that? You get the point. But now that gasoline is $2.50 a gallon, people are thinking about. Look around on the freeway, you see people carpooling. Want to make $2.50 a gallon gas $1.25 again? Drive half as much; share a ride to work. Alternative energy is now becoming competitive. Guess what? We're a bunch of greedy bastards in this country. If there's a buck to made, someone will make it, and when a buck can be made in alternative energy the market will take off. And money begets money, so someone else will come along and cut the price because they figured out how to do it cheaper. Bush may be a bumbling dolt when it comes to public speaking, but he's no fool. The strategic oil reserve is full, and Chuck and Hillary's bellyaching about opening it up to lower gasoline prices 10 cents a gallon isn't going to change Bush's mind. It isn't called "strategic" for giggles, it's there to keep this country from being brought to it's knees by some nut case in the middle east. High oil prices will do more to slow global warming than any treaty ever will. High prices get me off my ass and make me do a damn grocery list so I only have to make 1 trip. They make windmills attractive, solar heaters affordable, and steer the finest technical people we have in this country to do what should have been done a long time ago; make energy supplies match energy use! Our lives won't end because oil prices are high. But they will be different. Ultimately our lives will be better. For years, we've been eating our seed corn, and now that the pantry is getting bare we're getting scared. Great! That makes us pay attention. But there's lots of alternatives out there, we just need to go after them. Yeah, it's gonna take some work and some time. So what doesn't that's worthwhile? Lastly, think about this. If every person in this country cut their usage of gasoline by 2 gallons per week oil imports to this country would drop by 1/3. Piss on Iraq. Bring back our boys and let the camel jockeys kill each other. We won't need them anymore! 406256[/snapback] Good post. I agree with ya and have been saying the same thing. As long as your throw Bush a bone the board won't attack you... (bunch of Neo Lemmings). But Bush IS an idiot. He only cares about one thing as far as energy policy goes, do whatever it takes to reward your campaign backers (Oil companies have had the biggest profits and tax break windfalls in history along with lower regulation) and to hell with serving the people and leading us into the future. He's actually holding us back. Why not flip the incentives... Tens of Billions more go to Oil companies and production than to working on alternative energy. You are right though, we all want to lead the world in new technology with new energy sources, but the politicians are greedy and don't give a crap about what is good for the country and what we really want. They are too focused on spinning there garbage to the idiots out there to get votes and money to effectively spin there crap. Bush takes the cake in this area. I hope to god we get an independant who will crush the two major parties and lead our nation into the future and the lobby system be dammmmmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman's Helmet Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Good post. I agree with ya and have been saying the same thing. As long as your throw Bush a bone the board won't attack you... (bunch of Neo Lemmings). But Bush IS an idiot. He only cares about one thing as far as energy policy goes, do whatever it takes to reward your campaign backers (Oil companies have had the biggest profits and tax break windfalls in history along with lower regulation) and to hell with serving the people and leading us into the future. He's actually holding us back. Why not flip the incentives... Tens of Billions more go to Oil companies and production than to working on alternative energy. You are right though, we all want to lead the world in new technology with new energy sources, but the politicians are greedy and don't give a crap about what is good for the country and what we really want. They are too focused on spinning there garbage to the idiots out there to get votes and money to effectively spin there crap. Bush takes the cake in this area. I hope to god we get an independant who will crush the two major parties and lead our nation into the future and the lobby system be dammmmmed. 406728[/snapback] You forgot to mention the following to complete your post; Halliburton Flight Suit Nosepick My Pet Goat AWOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobottomee Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Good post. I agree with ya and have been saying the same thing. As long as your throw Bush a bone the board won't attack you... (bunch of Neo Lemmings). But Bush IS an idiot. He only cares about one thing as far as energy policy goes, do whatever it takes to reward your campaign backers (Oil companies have had the biggest profits and tax break windfalls in history along with lower regulation) and to hell with serving the people and leading us into the future. He's actually holding us back. Why not flip the incentives... Tens of Billions more go to Oil companies and production than to working on alternative energy. You are right though, we all want to lead the world in new technology with new energy sources, but the politicians are greedy and don't give a crap about what is good for the country and what we really want. They are too focused on spinning there garbage to the idiots out there to get votes and money to effectively spin there crap. Bush takes the cake in this area. I hope to god we get an independant who will crush the two major parties and lead our nation into the future and the lobby system be dammmmmed. 406728[/snapback] A couple more points to consider... As a general rule, oil companies don't get "tax breaks". They do get depletion allowances and other deductions because the nature of thier business is risky. To get a sense of the risk, try this experiment. Go to your boss and request about 200 million dollars. Tell him your going to drill a hole in the ground 18,000 feet deep, but first you need to spend another 150 million to build the platform that floats in the Gulf of Mexico. Remind him you are the best at your business, and that on average you only miss drilling commercial wells 40% of the time. Tell him he's making record profits and can afford to piss away 40 million on your hunch. While this is facetious, it's illustrates my point. Drilling oil and gas wells is the industrial version of Las Vegas Blackjack. Yes you can win, but you have to be damn good at the game, and sometimes the cards are just stacked against you. I have to disagree with you that politicians are greedy and don't give a crap. I think most of them are well intentioned, but don't have the backbone to make good intelligent decisions. Take Hillary; her decisions have nothing to do with the country and everything to do with her ambitions and ego. She lives for today, and worries about tomorrow some other time. But she believes that the things she's doing are in the best interest of the country. Trouble is, she can't tell the difference between long term beneficial policy and short term political expediency, so she defaults to acquiescing to the loudest voice she hears. If it's the Sierra Club, she's an environmentalist, if Exxon is screaming loudest that day, she's for drilling in ANWR. It's a rare politician that has the crust to make difficult decisions that are in the country's best interest, especially since the liklihood is that decision will mean an unsuccessful re-election. All that being said, the government is for the most part impotent when it comes to fostering meaningful changes. That's why Social Security is still being debated, 28 years after it first started getting into trouble. Tax incentives can help initiate changes, but they can't sustain them. Only market forces will sustain meaningful changes. There's all kinds of tax incentives available if I want to buy a tenament and rehab it. But until the crack heads get cleaned up and there's a profit in it for me the buildings will continue to rot. It's the same for energy policy. No matter how many incentives there are, energy change will not happen until individuals like you and me start making decisions that go down those roads. Waiting lists for Toyota's Prius will push GM towards fuel efficiency overnight whereas governement pressure to do the same thing will be little more than martini discussions at the next board meeting. And guess what's driving those changes? Yup, me wanting to buy one of those cars cuz' the damn thing gets 60 mpg and I can save 25 bucks a week! Okay, enough pontificating on my part. Just one more thing... Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 A couple more points to consider... As a general rule, oil companies don't get "tax breaks". They do get depletion allowances and other deductions because the nature of thier business is risky. To get a sense of the risk, try this experiment. Go to your boss and request about 200 million dollars. Tell him your going to drill a hole in the ground 18,000 feet deep, but first you need to spend another 150 million to build the platform that floats in the Gulf of Mexico. Remind him you are the best at your business, and that on average you only miss drilling commercial wells 40% of the time. Tell him he's making record profits and can afford to piss away 40 million on your hunch. While this is facetious, it's illustrates my point. Drilling oil and gas wells is the industrial version of Las Vegas Blackjack. Yes you can win, but you have to be damn good at the game, and sometimes the cards are just stacked against you. I have to disagree with you that politicians are greedy and don't give a crap. I think most of them are well intentioned, but don't have the backbone to make good intelligent decisions. Take Hillary; her decisions have nothing to do with the country and everything to do with her ambitions and ego. She lives for today, and worries about tomorrow some other time. But she believes that the things she's doing are in the best interest of the country. Trouble is, she can't tell the difference between long term beneficial policy and short term political expediency, so she defaults to acquiescing to the loudest voice she hears. If it's the Sierra Club, she's an environmentalist, if Exxon is screaming loudest that day, she's for drilling in ANWR. It's a rare politician that has the crust to make difficult decisions that are in the country's best interest, especially since the liklihood is that decision will mean an unsuccessful re-election. All that being said, the government is for the most part impotent when it comes to fostering meaningful changes. That's why Social Security is still being debated, 28 years after it first started getting into trouble. Tax incentives can help initiate changes, but they can't sustain them. Only market forces will sustain meaningful changes. There's all kinds of tax incentives available if I want to buy a tenament and rehab it. But until the crack heads get cleaned up and there's a profit in it for me the buildings will continue to rot. It's the same for energy policy. No matter how many incentives there are, energy change will not happen until individuals like you and me start making decisions that go down those roads. Waiting lists for Toyota's Prius will push GM towards fuel efficiency overnight whereas governement pressure to do the same thing will be little more than martini discussions at the next board meeting. And guess what's driving those changes? Yup, me wanting to buy one of those cars cuz' the damn thing gets 60 mpg and I can save 25 bucks a week! Okay, enough pontificating on my part. Just one more thing... Go Bills! 407375[/snapback] well its true what you say that most politicians dont have the backbone to make an important political decision, but that is basically the fault of the way the system is put into place... these politicians obviously want to be reelected and 4 years is not really the amount of time that it takes for a policy to actually make its effect onto the economy i believe that fiscal policy takes about 1 year before you start seeing the benefits and monetary policy is almost instant that is why the politicians basically just make the choices that makes them popular but doesnt necessarily make the country better off if clinton had decided to plug in 200-300 billion to help create jobs and such, the only time we would have seen this is probably in the end of his term, and lets say during his term unemployment was high, people will not reelect him. as a result bush comes in and takes credit for a booming job market that was created by the previous administration. honestly i dont see what the point of voting is , we're just spoon fed lies in canada we're taxed 50% of gasoline, and our government continually keeps screwing us (liberal party) and yet every year they come back into office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 No one gave a thought to it. Drive to the store for a candy bar? No problem, hop in the car and go. Drive by yourself to work even when you can share with your neighbor? Yup, I'd rather be by myself. Gas mileage? What's that? You get the point. 406256[/snapback] Very good post and I mean it. We are profligate gas burners as a society. Gas and tobacco are very very price inelastic - takes a lot of price increases to hurt demand. Hence, prices and taxes are high on these products. I posted elsewhere that the current high prices are a result of (1) Too much demand, too little supply of products. (2) Political troubles/uncertainty in Middle East (3) Loss of 3% of gasoline pool due to MTBE take-out. Someone else noted that people have to go to work, run errands etc. But can't we increase use of public transportation ? I do agree on the other point though - that vehicles are not replaced overnight. However we all have short term memories and an optimistic outlook. SUV sales are hurting now but will go up again when gas prices fall to $2 level in October. Get used to it guys - gas is not coming down below $2 ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philburger1 Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 But can't we increase use of public transportation ? I do agree on the other point though - that vehicles are not replaced overnight. 407723[/snapback] Not the answer unless you really want to shrink the economy a great deal. New enegery sources is what is needed. Public tranpostation doesn't work for the 70% of people that don't live in the inner cities. Beside, who wants to get mugged for thier ipod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 . Get used to it guys - gas is not coming down below $2 ever. 407723[/snapback] Personally, I hope it goes to $5 a gallon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich in Ohio Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Whats the big deal? If you want to drive...shut up and pay. If you want to walk...buy a nice pair of shoes, or get a decent bike. In the mean time, get in touch with reality........gas prices are not for us to control. It is also not the governments job to regulate the prices. B word and complain all you want....if I had the reserves and I controlled the oil....I can assure you the price per barrel would be as high as I could possibly make it. Afterall, my family has needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobottomee Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Whats the big deal? If you want to drive...shut up and pay. If you want to walk...buy a nice pair of shoes, or get a decent bike. In the mean time, get in touch with reality........gas prices are not for us to control. It is also not the governments job to regulate the prices. B word and complain all you want....if I had the reserves and I controlled the oil....I can assure you the price per barrel would be as high as I could possibly make it. Afterall, my family has needs. 408045[/snapback] Although you make a very valid point about pushing the price of "your" oil as high as you can (after all, that's the same thing corporate boards do) your point about controlling prices is unfounded. Want to drive prices down? Stop buying. If enough people stop, prices will drop. The problem is, as stated very well by Fan in Chicago, gasoline prices are inelastic. People who are addicted to cigarettes find it difficult to stop buying, so downward pressure on prices is light. We're addicted to gasoline, so until we have to make the choice between food and gas, we'll just yell and holler while the nozzle is stuck in the side of the car. I love how every time oil prices go up the comparison is made to "inflation adjusted prices of 1980". That's meant to make us feel better about the upward spiral of prices. To me it shows how little our press really understands the underlying core problem. They're all little more than parrots; repeating what they hear without ever understanding what they say. At the end of the day, it's up to us to change things, but I have my doubts that we as a society have the fortitude to actually follow through. I'm reminded of the time I worked for a company that was going through financial difficulties. For a year and a half, management warned that tough times were coming and we had to change the way we do things. Everyone agreed, but no one actually did very much. And then on one particular Monday we went to our lockers and half of them had been cleaned out because the workers had been laid off. The light bulb went on and we decided we'd better get busy and change things. Trouble was, it was too late. This time around, though, being too late will be a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Personally, I hope it goes to $5 a gallon. 408019[/snapback] Hey MadCap, Love your avatar. Fellow Tull fan ? It is my favorite band of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hey MadCap,Love your avatar. Fellow Tull fan ? It is my favorite band of all time. 408571[/snapback] YEs indeed. In fact, I hear that they will be touring this summer. I highly recommend it to everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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