Beans and Sean - Should we miss the SB again

[Buffalo Boy]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not a flaming chance. 

The only real counter argument is Rex accomplishing that with D and not O.

   I’m just not sure if Rex could have taken McD’s D players as far…. But I’m not sure he couldn’t. 13 seconds doesn’t happen with Rex on the sidelines. Not on D and not on ST!

   Imagine dropping Josh onto those Sanchez offenses. Not saying its guaranteed SB wins but the % definitely increases significantly.

[Búfalo Blanco]

I don't think you move on from Beane... I'd keep him with the right HC. He's a great GM with a great negotiating strategy and talent evaluation. 

But McDermott? He should've lost his job years ago. Defensive genius who cannot stop the Andy Reids of the world. Can't take 3 seconds to tell a kicker to squib it... He'll always be outsmarted, unless Allen somehow gets him out of it. He doesn't pull it off this year with the greatest QB of all time, bring in an offensive mind...

[Buffalo Boy]

8 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

and (2) McD hire a passing game coordinator to help Brady scheme & call a better downfield passing game.  

   How can anyone, even for a second, blame our current plight on lack of offensive production over the last six years?

   In the moment, I understand your observation but can counter it easily with “ jimmies and joes” argument. 
We do not currently have the skill players at receiver. I truly believe our best chance at a downfield passing game is currently (in this order) Kincaid, Hawes and Knox.  This would mean passing more to the center of the field and it has never been something we have done consistently under any OC with Josh.

    A new coach scheming up a new downfield passing attack with this crop of receivers? See above, because it isn’t coming through these wideouts by scheme. Only, by sugar rush Josh running around and making things happen.

[Buffalo Boy]

8 hours ago, Steptide said:

Not sure I'd be fully on board with firing beane and McDermott, but I might be on board with new coordinators. This defense has just never improved going back to Fraizer. I mean, we all remember 13 seconds, or the Bengal playoff game with guys litterally playing 10 yards off the Los. It goes on and on. I don't think it'd be terrible to bring in someone that would completely flips the tables and do something completely different 

Which would make Sean a figurehead. No way is he ceding control of the D to an outsider with a different scheme! Zero percent chance!

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

The only real counter argument is Rex accomplishing that with D and not O.

   I’m just not sure if Rex could have taken McD’s D players as far…. But I’m not sure he couldn’t. 13 seconds doesn’t happen with Rex on the sidelines. Not on D and not on ST!

   Imagine dropping Josh onto those Sanchez offenses. Not saying its guaranteed SB wins but the % definitely increases significantly.

 

What Rex accomplished on defense in 2009 and 2010 is totally irrelvant by 2018 when Josh enters the league. The league had changed and Rex failed to keep pace. The game passed him by. If the argument is just put prime Josh Allen on the 2009-2010 Jets teams and they win a Superbowl, sure. I can well believe that. But the Rex Ryan who turned up here five years later was antiquated in terms of how NFL defense was being played and he never caught up. I say again, there is a reason Rex hasn't coached again since. Frankly the idea that he in the 2020s could lead anyone anywhere is absurd.

Edited 1 hour ago by GunnerBill

[Buffalo Boy]

8 hours ago, TH3 said:

Again?   wtf is with this board ? Can’t you see there are 50 freaking other hate Mcbeane threads…but…oh wait…your special …you have original thoughts here…

This is how groundswells look. This is how owners are forced into making changes.

Far too many scaredy cats who are afraid of change ( Drought PTSD perhaps) who need to be dragged kicking and screaming to a change.

Scoreboard = 4-1 = Excellent

Eyetest = 😵

 

[Buffalo Boy]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What Rex accomplished on defense in 2009 and 2010 is totally irrelvant by 2018 when Josh enters the league. The league had changed and Rex failed to keep pace. The game passed him by. If the argument is just put prime Josh Allen on the 2009-2010 Jets teams and they win a Superbowl, sure. I can well believe that. But the Rex Ryan who turned up here five years later was antiquated in terms of how NFL defense was being played and he never caught up. I say again, there is a reason Rex hasn't coached again since. Frankly the ides that he in the 2020s could lead anyone anywhere is absurd.

Back to “ I’m not sure”.

Clearly we are playing a game of what if but your argument of the game passing him by is equally applicable to Sean.

Sean being passed by :

     Josh being the almost sole reason we are where we are.

     Sean’s schemes being consistently shredded on third and long, year after year vs the assumption that Rex would have played more man and blitzed more. Can we know that Rex’s way would have been better? No. But, I would argue, in the biggest games, pressure is what beat Brady and Mahomes, not two deep shell coverage.

Edited 1 hour ago by Buffalo Boy

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Back to “ I’m not sure”.

Clearly we are playing a game of what if but your argument of the game passing him by is equally applicable to Sean.

Sean being passed by :

     Josh being the almost sole reason we are where we are.

     Sean’s schemes being consistently shredded on third and long, year after year vs the assumption that Rex would have played more man and blitzed more. Can we know that Rex’s way would have been better? No. But, I would argue, in the biggest games, pressure is what beat Brady and Mahomes, not two deep shell coverage.

 

What beats Brady and Mahomes is rushing four. Not blitzing. You have to be able to get there with four. If you can't you are done for. Whether than is Spags in the 09 Superbowl vs Brady or Fangio in last year's v Mahomes. Rex was a blitz, blitz and blitz again merchant who by the middle of the last decade was out of touch and put of ideas. 

 

The Bills are blitzing more this year. How is that working out for them? The "just blitz more" crowd need to get off Madden and come into the real world. 

 

There legitmate reasons to be critical of McDermott by the way - the defense has got significantly worse since he helped nudge Leslie Frazier out, the Bills have this annoying tendency in years where the 1 seed is in play to lose stupid games to inferior teams, he hasn't been able to get to a Superbowl and to the extent he is involved in roster building (and that is really Brandon Beane but I believe they are totally aligned on the vision even though the individual choices are Beane's) they have not built the roster the way I would have advocated for. At this stage Sean (and Brandon) should be evaluated year on year in terms of have they maximised what was available to them. All of that is legitimate.

 

But Rex Ryan winning a Superbowl in this decade? Nah. That isn't legtimate. That's a joke. I understand people being frustrated but seriously it is boiling some people's brains.

Edited 1 hour ago by GunnerBill

[Buffalo Boy]

7 hours ago, Casey D said:

This thread is so repetitive and waste of time.  Bill Cowher won his first and only SB after 10 seasons.  With this front office and coach turning the franchise from a laughingstock to a consistent power and media darling, no one is going nowhere anytime soon.  Give it a break.

Rothlisburger in his 3rd year and a very good D and conservative run dominated O. 
D won them that Super Bowl ( and some BS penalties)

D got Cower to a SB with Neil O’ Donnel at QB!!!! Neil Freaking O’ Donnell😜

[Buffalo Boy]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What beats Brady and Mahomes is rushing four. Not blitzing. You have to be able to get there with four. If you can't you are done for. Whether than is Spags in the 09 Superbowl vs Brady or Fangio in last year's v Mahomes. Rex was a blitz, blitz and blitz again merchant who by the middle of the last decade was out of touch and put of ideas. 

 

The Bills are blitzing more this year. How is that working out for them? The "just blitz more" crowd need to get off Madden and come into the real world. 

 

There legitmate reasons to be critical of McDermott by the way - the defense has got significantly worse since he helped nudge Leslie Frazier out, the Bills have this annoying tendency in years where the 1 seed is in play to lose stupid games to inferior teams, he hasn't been able to get to a Superbowl and to the extent he is involved in roster building (and that is really Brandon Beane but I believe they are totally aligned on the vision even though the individual choices are Beane's) they have not built the roster the way I would have advocated for. At this stage Sean (and Brandon) should be evaluated year on year in terms of have they maximised what was available to them. All of that is legitimate.

 

But Rex Ryan winning a Superbowl in this decade? Nah. That isn't legtimate. That's a joke. I understand people being frustrated but seriously it is boiling some people's brains.

Again, I am not disagreeing. 
I understand that the Giants beating the crap out of Brady and Mahomes running around like a chicken with his head cut off, was predominantly due to inside pass rush married to outside pressure ( and so Beautiful to watch all four times😁)

But, in the moment of 13 seconds, can you say that a blitz with man coverage ( on one of the two plays) followed by a squib kick wouldn’t have  possibly had a better outcome? No. You can’t. If you do, then we are just arguing to argue. 
 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Again, I am not disagreeing. 
I understand that the Giants beating the crap out of Brady and Mahomes running around like a chicken with his head cut off, was predominantly due to inside pass rush married to outside pressure ( and so Beautiful to watch all four times😁)

But, in the moment of 13 seconds, can you say that a blitz with man coverage ( on one of the two plays) followed by a squib kick wouldn’t have  possibly had a better outcome? No. You can’t. If you do, then we are just arguing to argue. 
 

 

I think blitzing would have been a mistake in 13 seconds - yes. Do I think they should have squibbed? For sure. Do I think they called the best coverages? No. Although Levi totally misplaying his assignment on the second didn't help. 

 

There is no question 13 seconds was coaching failure. That is well established. Again the leap in logic is that the antidote to that is somehow Rex Ryan. That is a classic logical fallacy. The thing we did failed, therefore we must do something else, this is something else, ergo this must be the right plan. 

 

There was actually what I considered a pretty reasonable discussion in another thread about what happens next if the Bills fail to meet expectations this year and who the realistic options might be. It seems it got nixed though before I had a chance to contribute. Even as someone who as of right now isn't committed to "Superbowl or regime change" this year I do think it is reasonable to have conversations about alternative options. I don't think it is reasonable to argue Rex Ryan would have won a Superbowl here. That is crazy talk.

[Buffalo Boy]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

McDermott should have been gone after the 2023/2024 season. Shocking to read, yeah? We reached the AFC Title game once again vs. Chiefs. Some of us knew that we were gonna lose and we were proven right.

 

That game was so close. It was winnable. And McDermott's Milkshake Meltdown Defense happened again.

 

Beane shouldn't be fired just yet even when we get eliminated from playoffs this season. He built a great o-line and been doing a fantastic job maintaining that. Yeah, he sucks on finding defensive talent and wide receivers. Every GM has their flaws though.

 

Our O-line still needs maintenance and new talent. Beane knows how to do that. We got to protect MVP Superstar QB at all cost and our defense will never be able to block for Josh Alien.

Which begs the often asked question: How much of the draft is Beane and how much is McBeane. 
IF Sean has a decent amount of say and a new coach either wouldn’t or would then maybe Beane should stay.

However, IF the drafting is predominantly Beane then I think he needs to go to.

My hunch is, McBeane is a real thing and they are drafting as a duo with close to equal say after the scouts have done their job and presented their info. If this were a similar setup with a new coach, it would take time to flip a roster . It also might pay bigger dividends if done right quickly. 
There are so many what ifs in this scenario that 🤷‍♂️ . Which is why the clock is ticking LOUDLY based upon Josh’s health and age. As much as I don’t love our current O scheme. I do like that Josh isn’t getting the stuffing beaten out of him. 

[Buffalo Boy]

7 hours ago, Comebackkid said:

regardless of McD I've always felt that the biggest mistake made after Daboll left was not bringing in proven coodinators on both sides.

Leslie might have had some faults but at the same time he knew what he was doing.

 

having a superbowl team and qb and then bringing in pewee coaches is a crime.

   Which begs the question Why.

Is McDermott a tyrant who won’t bring in someone who will say no to him?

   I understand on D but on O I like to think coaches would be tripping over themselves to get to work with Josh.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Which begs the often asked question: How much of the draft is Beane and how much is McBeane. 
IF Sean has a decent amount of say and a new coach either wouldn’t or would then maybe Beane should stay.

However, IF the drafting is predominantly Beane then I think he needs to go to.

My hunch is, McBeane is a real thing and they are drafting as a duo with close to equal say after the scouts have done their job and presented their info. If this were a similar setup with a new coach, it would take time to flip a roster . It also might pay bigger dividends if done right quickly. 
There are so many what ifs in this scenario that 🤷‍♂️ . Which is why the clock is ticking LOUDLY based upon Josh’s health and age. As much as I don’t love our current O scheme. I do like that Josh isn’t getting the stuffing beaten out of him. 

 

Beane runs the draft. He is in charge of personnel. I have that on very good authority from people inside the organisation (or previously inside I should say, both are now elsewhere). McDermott has a big say in the type of team they want to build and the profile of person they want, but the individual selections of FAs and draft picks... that is Brandon Beane. McDermott and the coaches will watch some film and give their input after the scouts grade as is normal right across the NFL. But when it comes to setting the board and executing a draft strategy and picks that is Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott has total faith in him doing it.

 

And I have made this point many times but if you look at the way the Bills draft, the positions the prioritise and the positions they don't it breaks down in very similar percentages to the way the Panthers drafted under Hurney and Gettleman who Beane learned from. Lots of defensive front seven, above average investment in running backs, way below average investment in wide receivers and no offensive linemen in round 1.

[Buffalo Boy]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think blitzing would have been a mistake in 13 seconds - yes. Do I think they should have squibbed? For sure. Do I think they called the best coverages? No. Although Levi totally misplaying his assignment on the second didn't help. 

 

There is no question 13 seconds was coaching failure. That is well established. Again the leap in logic is that the antidote to that is somehow Rex Ryan. That is a classic logical fallacy. The thing we did failed, therefore we must do something else, this is something else, ergo this must be the right plan. 

 

There was actually what I considered a pretty reasonable discussion in another thread about what happens next if the Bills fail to meet expectations this year and who the realistic options might be. It seems it got nixed though before I had a chance to contribute. Even as someone who as of right now isn't committed to "Superbowl or regime change" this year I do think it is reasonable to have conversations about alternative options. I don't think it is reasonable to argue Rex Ryan would have won a Superbowl here. That is crazy talk.

That wasn’t even the AFCC game. A lot of people assume we would have gotten to the SB, including me at one point. With the benefit of hindsight, I tend not to think so. 
So, I’m not saying we win a SB. But I firmly believe we make the AFCC, in that moment, with Rex. And that, Bill, is sad imo.

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, justjoshingaround said:

No fan wants the bills to be like the teams mentioned above. However theres one player that separates the bills from those teams that play coach roulette. 

 

#17. 

 

But I do agree. Becareful what you wish for. Its not any easy decision by any means. Its a flip of a coin no matter what.

 

go bills

What don't some of you understand that it's a team sport and all facets matter? In 2023, a God at QB named Josh Allen was 6-6, throwing to Stephon Diggs and about to lose the division to the 9-3 Miami Dolphins. Instead, this HC FIRED the OC in Ken Dorsey and replaced him with Joe Brady. 

 

Now what did that mean? It meant that the offensive structure of pass first and pass, pass, pass, as it was under Brian Daboll, was no longer working, and NFL defenses had adapted to that style of Buffalo offense being one-dimensional. Now, since Joe Brady has taken over the Buffalo offense, it has become a more run-oriented attack, which has helped Josh Allen become a better NFL QB with fewer turnovers. 

 

Currently, the 2025 Buffalo Bills, after week five, are #3 overall on offense. #1 in rushing attempts, #2 in rushing yards, #2 in rushing TDs. Meanwhile, #20 in passing yards, #11 in passing TDs. 

 

What this means is that Buffalo is so good at running the ball with RB James Cook, they are second in the league in running with Cook only behind Indy and Jonathan Taylor. In passing, they are 9th, in receiving, they are 46th with Kahil Shakir...why? Because "everybody eats," meaning that all the Bills' receivers will see the ball in a game. 

 

While I also love #17, he is not the end-all, be-all, as it's a more balanced offense now. Last season, the 2024 Buffalo Bills were the #1 scoring team in the NFL, playoffs included. They just ran into a better team at their end of the season and had some injuries in the secondary. They also had very little pass rush, pressure, and Buffalo's defense was 29th in 3rd downs allowed. Buffalo was 13-4, but alas, the KC Chiefs were 15-2, and they had home-field advantage.  

 

Bottom line, the 2024 Buffalo Bills led the NFL in takeaways at +24 and yet only had one turnover from KC. The Bills couldn't get the Chiefs off the field on 3rd down.

Plus, in the playoffs against the Kansas City Chiefs in January 2025, the Buffalo Bills sustained injuries to Christian Benford (concussion) Starter, who was ruled out after the AFC Championship game, and Taylor Rapp (hip) Starter, who was ruled out for the same game due to a hip injury in the previous round. Backup CB Kaiir Elam was burned badly in this game, and the Bills started a rookie at Safety. 

 

Those defensive injuries and the lack of pressure on the QB and the inability to get the opposing offense off the field on 3rd down are the reasons the Bills went heavy on the defensive side of the ball this offseason. Currently, Buffalo is dealing with suspensions to two D-line players and some injuries to rookies in their secondary. Things should look better after the bye week. Have some patience.