HurlyBurly51 Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 But someone called Pat Kirwan and was asking about John Butler. The interesting factoid I picked up on during the response was apparently Kirwan worked for Butler or the Bills in some form the summer training camp before Butler's last season as GM. What he told Kirwan at that time was to be ready for a call from him in January and be ready to do what I want you to do, which was an overture of an impending job offering (which he ultimately turned down). Well, this was just months after Butler's last draft and well before his tenure came to an end. If I recall correctly Wilson still wanted to talk to Butler during the season about extending his contract. Point is, Butler knew he was leaving Buffalo long before Wilson made it official, but he kept dragging it out and putting it off. That's not to imply he tanked the draft or in some way underperformed in his duties. But in my opinion, not a class way to end the relationship. People can speculate all they want whether he stuck it to Wilson or not in any of the moves he made, but he was clearly planning for his future and not necessarily that of the Bills. Just seemed Kirwan inadvertently let the cat out of the bag, as I don't ever recall seeing or hearing anything seemingly confirming his future plans this early in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I suspected as much when Butler refused to discuss a contract during that last season. And that last draft was so putrid, compared to the other drafts Butler has had, that I can only think he intentionally screwed the pooch that year. I mean, Erik Flowers and Travares Tillman with your first 2 picks?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLocke Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I hate to bring up Butler may he R.I.P., but Given that he had SO many good drafts and this draft was so horrible it seems to indicate that he tanked it when you factor in the other evidence. Erik Flowers? Travarrese Tillman? Corey Moore? Avion Black? Sammy Morris? Leif Larsen? Dashon Polk? Drew Haddad?. I think Tillman, Morris and Polk are the only ones still in the NFL and that Butler was so good on draft day getting guys like Eric Moulds, Sam Cowart, Jay Reimersma, John Holececk and not to get any help for the Bills in this draft just seems mind boggleing to me. Now in fairness if he and Wade had stayed with the Bills perhaps they would have contributed. His first Draft in San Diego was good as well IMO getting Tomlinson and Brees. Anyway I'm glad he and Ralph patched things up when Butler was on his death be. Also I am greatful to Butler as I believe he was responsible for some of the success during his tenure. Anyway I was meaning to bring this topic up, however I am glad someone else brought it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 But someone called Pat Kirwan and was asking about John Butler. The interesting factoid I picked up on during the response was apparently Kirwan worked for Butler or the Bills in some form the summer training camp before Butler's last season as GM. What he told Kirwan at that time was to be ready for a call from him in January and be ready to do what I want you to do, which was an overture of an impending job offering (which he ultimately turned down). Well, this was just months after Butler's last draft and well before his tenure came to an end. If I recall correctly Wilson still wanted to talk to Butler during the season about extending his contract. Point is, Butler knew he was leaving Buffalo long before Wilson made it official, but he kept dragging it out and putting it off. That's not to imply he tanked the draft or in some way underperformed in his duties. But in my opinion, not a class way to end the relationship. People can speculate all they want whether he stuck it to Wilson or not in any of the moves he made, but he was clearly planning for his future and not necessarily that of the Bills. Just seemed Kirwan inadvertently let the cat out of the bag, as I don't ever recall seeing or hearing anything seemingly confirming his future plans this early in the process. 355827[/snapback] The whole Butler departure was disgusting. The topper was the timing of it all, just as the Bills were beyond the point of fending off cap doom. He made the mess, then broke west for a clean slate and the #1 overall draft pick, leaving Bills fans to deal with the ramifications of his absurd spending on mediocre players. I lost all respect for the man, especially with the way he acted like he didn't owe us any explanation at all and then had the gaul to diss Wilson thru his mouthpiece, AJ Smith. He backdoored Wilson, bottom line. I don't care if Wilson called him 10 times per day or whatever Butler's gripe was, the man gave him the job and an ample checkbook to work with. He did us and Ralph wrong by lame ducking it and collecting a paycheck his last season here. I don't think he tanked that draft though. It looked bad, but it's not consistent with his selfish behavior with regard to his job. It's good that he resolved things with Wilson. It probably a lot easier for Ralph to forgive him knowing he had a far better person for the job that needed to be done in Buffalo in Tom Donahoe. Nowadays, the Bills are a lot more fan friendly. By comparison, Butler's Bills were cold, distant and disinterested in the fans or what they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtoe Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 The fact that Pat Kirwin had a relationship with Butler is something I didn't know, but makes sense of his comments regarding Erik Flowers following that draft. When giving an update on the AFC East for Boston radio, he had a glowing recommendation of Flowers. He said something like 'look out for the Flowers kids he is going to be a real player'. I guess his judgement could have been clouded slightly by his relationship with Butler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 But Flowers had a monster combine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 But Flowers had a monster combine... 355865[/snapback] Hey, a guy I know had a monster combine also. What did Flowers do with his? The guy I know used it on his wheat fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Pat Kirwan held several positions with the Jets from 1989-97, including defensive assistant coach, assistant pro personnel director and director of player administration. He has managed the salary cap, negotiated player contracts and trades, and evaluated pro and college personnel. Prior to joining the Jets, Pat was a scout for the Buccaneers and Cardinals as well as the offensive coordinator at Hofstra University. He never worked for the Bills. He was a writer for CNN/SI at that time and had the ears of many a GM throughout the NFL. I saw him at camp last year, scouting for NFL.com, along with Buffalo resident Vic Carruci. Guffalo was talking to him for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Guffalo was talking to him for a while. 355900[/snapback] 10 minutes in the parking lot, as I recall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted June 11, 2005 Author Share Posted June 11, 2005 Pat Kirwan held several positions with the Jets from 1989-97, including defensive assistant coach, assistant pro personnel director and director of player administration. He has managed the salary cap, negotiated player contracts and trades, and evaluated pro and college personnel. Prior to joining the Jets, Pat was a scout for the Buccaneers and Cardinals as well as the offensive coordinator at Hofstra University. He never worked for the Bills. He was a writer for CNN/SI at that time and had the ears of many a GM throughout the NFL. I saw him at camp last year, scouting for NFL.com, along with Buffalo resident Vic Carruci. Guffalo was talking to him for a while. 355900[/snapback] I'm only paraphrasing Kirwan, but it came straight from his mouth that he spent summer training camp with Butler, though it wasn't clear in what capacity. It kind of implied he was working with him in some capacity, but maybe he was just there as a media member. Either way, Butler thought enough of him to offer him a job the following January when he knew in his mind his contract would be up in Buffalo and he wouldn't be coming back. Would've been nice if he could've advised Ralph of same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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