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Nihilarian

Reason the Dolphins fired their OC

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9 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

His buddy from NE wanted to interview him for OC. We can count that as an interview since I admittedly forgot about the request. Then again, we’ve seen legitimately terrible coordinators and position coaches constantly get chances because the NFL is all about who you know. 

 

 

Did you poll all the players, coaches or front office personnel? All of them? 
 


If they don’t improve after 3 years then it’s not far too early to know the reason.
 

McD fired Dennison after 1 year as OC. Did he need more time to know he was a poor OC and part of the problem?

 

 

The NFL really is not all about who you know. That's ridiculous on the face of it. Does who you know come into it? Absolutely. But we haven't seen many horrible coaches get a lot of opportunities. We see guys doing a pretty decent job get plenty and we see plenty of those prove that at the next level they may be horrible.

 

No, I did not poll all the players, coaches or front office personnel. You might want to settle down in front of a dictionary and look up the words "consensus" and the word "most," both of which I used. Oh, maybe "widely considered," too, as I look back.

 

Is it "after three years" now? Have I missed a year somewhere? No? Got it. OK, then here's something you've missed. Nobody knows the future. That would include you, by the way. And me too, I hasten to say. What happens at the end of next year will depend extremely heavily on what happens during the intervening time. You're kidding yourself if you think that there aren't plenty of circumstances where they could feel that the offense didn't improve much and it wasn't primarily Daboll's fault.

 

Just as a quick example, if Diggs and Allen miss the season with injuries they might easily feel that though the offense didn't improve much it wasn't Daboll's fault. There are plenty of other scenarios where they might feel that way. Like it or not it simply doesn't make sense pretending you know now what will happen based on imaginary future results. What they'll do is much more complex than checking the date and the stats from a website and saying, "Welp, it's the day after the season ends, and as I check, the offence isn't in the top half ... Daboll's gone." It just is a ton more complex, and thank goodness for that. This FO is a group that grinds. I absolutely love that about them, they grind, and they do it with intelligence, with an understanding of context, and with a plan. And what it comes down to is simple to put into words but will be arrived at with a lot of grinding ... they'll look at whether he is doing a good enough job under the circumstances and whether they can improve more with someone else.

 

And you're dead on with Dennison, but that's an argument on my side, not yours. Dennison was fired after a year. Daboll is still here after two years. Clearly they thought Dennison was not doing the job, and that Daboll is.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Happy said:

 

Nobody twisted McDermott's arm in choosing Dennison as the HC; that was still his choice.  McD could have picked someone else, but he didn't most likely because no current or former Carolina Panther offensive assistants or coordinators were available.  McD is on his second OC and SpT coordinator in four years.  Not a good record, which screams McDermott is a DC, not HC.

 

 

By this ridiculous logic, Marv Levy apparently screamed he was not head coach material when he fired his STs coordinator and his DC after his first year as HC.

 

Apparently Pete Carroll also screamed he was no head coach, replacing OC, DC and STs coordinator in his first year.

 

 

Edited by Thurman#1

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1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

By this ridiculous logic, Marv Levy apparently screamed he was not head coach material when he fired his STs coordinator and his DC after his first year as HC.

 

Apparently Pete Carroll also screamed he was no head coach, replacing OC, DC and STs coordinator in his first year.

 

 

 

If McDermott can get to a SB with the coordinators he has now, I'll eat crow.  Until then, our OC and SpT coordinators remain suspect.  Daboll's issues have been well discussed, though Heath Farwell not as much.  There was two occasions of blocked punts this past year, the second one where the Patriots saw a blocking vulnerability which didn't get fixed from prior weeks and they took advantage of it.  

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3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The NFL really is not all about who you know. That's ridiculous on the face of it. Does who you know come into it? Absolutely. But we haven't seen many horrible coaches get a lot of opportunities. We see guys doing a pretty decent job get plenty and we see plenty of those prove that at the next level they may be horrible.


Rob Ryan says hello

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

No, I did not poll all the players, coaches or front office personnel. You might want to settle down in front of a dictionary and look up the words "consensus" and the word "most," both of which I used. Oh, maybe "widely considered," too, as I look back.

 

So you’re just guessing then? Got it.

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Is it "after three years" now? Have I missed a year somewhere? No? Got it. OK, then here's something you've missed. Nobody knows the future. That would include you, by the way. And me too, I hasten to say. What happens at the end of next year will depend extremely heavily on what happens during the intervening time. You're kidding yourself if you think that there aren't plenty of circumstances where they could feel that the offense didn't improve much and it wasn't primarily Daboll's fault.

 

When did I say it’s already been 3 years? Oh right, I didn’t so I haven’t missed anything. I don’t pretend to know the future either, obviously. 

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Just as a quick example, if Diggs and Allen miss the season with injuries they might easily feel that though the offense didn't improve much it wasn't Daboll's fault. There are plenty of other scenarios where they might feel that way. Like it or not it simply doesn't make sense pretending you know now what will happen based on imaginary future results. What they'll do is much more complex than checking the date and the stats from a website and saying, "Welp, it's the day after the season ends, and as I check, the offence isn't in the top half ... Daboll's gone." It just is a ton more complex, and thank goodness for that. This FO is a group that grinds. I absolutely love that about them, they grind, and they do it with intelligence, with an understanding of context, and with a plan. And what it comes down to is simple to put into words but will be arrived at with a lot of grinding ... they'll look at whether he is doing a good enough job under the circumstances and whether they can improve more with someone else.


I’m not pretending to know what will happen just like I’m not pretending to know what the leaguewide opinion of Daboll is. If this offense gets through the season healthy and there isn’t much of an improvement then I’d guess and hope we move on from Daboll. That’s it.

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

And you're dead on with Dennison, but that's an argument on my side, not yours. Dennison was fired after a year. Daboll is still here after two years. Clearly they thought Dennison was not doing the job, and that Daboll is.

 

 


Maybe. Maybe Daboll just has a longer leash because McD doesn’t want Allen to try and learn a new offense. 

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14 hours ago, K-9 said:

The challenge lies in understanding route concepts in conjunction with various coverage schemes and combinations. 

 

Absolutely agree.   It's a lot to process for college WRs who ran limited route trees and explains why they often struggle early in their careers.    I'm convinced it's why Zay Jones flamed out--he often seemed to be zigging when he should have been zagging...

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12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Absolutely agree.   It's a lot to process for college WRs who ran limited route trees and explains why they often struggle early in their careers.    I'm convinced it's why Zay Jones flamed out--he often seemed to be zigging when he should have been zagging...

To be fair most college offenses provide similar limited route tree experience for its WR. Some college offenses and passing schemes are more sophisticated but it’s not common. Most college WRs need to learn and develop this upon entering the nfl 

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18 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

 

 

And compare that to the  West Coast tree...

 

 

As well as the Air Coryell tree

air coryell.jpg

West coast route tree.jpg

 

Oh snap they have different route trees?!  I never knew that.  

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33 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

To be fair most college offenses provide similar limited route tree experience for its WR. Some college offenses and passing schemes are more sophisticated but it’s not common. Most college WRs need to learn and develop this upon entering the nfl 

 

Which is why the interview process is so important.   Teams need to understand how these guys process things mentally.   We see Wonderlic scores a lot for QBs, not so much for WRs.    That probably is an incorrect way to look at things, given how they have to adjust to sight reads and coverage disguises, all while running flat out.

 

I hope our rookies can make the leap as the Bills track record with Jones, Foster and other young wideouts hasn't exactly been stellar in recent years...

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On 5/22/2020 at 9:47 PM, IgotBILLStopay said:

always good when an AFCE opponent’s coaching ranks are in disarray. that being said, these “issues” are less about the coaching tree and more about individual personalities. last couple of seasons, Bills fans have been a bit hard on Daboll and before that were harsh on Gailey as well. Ultimately winning cures everything and losing cannot cure anything. O’Shea situation appears to be a combination of losing and inability to connect with the younger crowd.

I personally liked Chan and his offense.

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1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

I personally liked Chan and his offense.

 

Chan unlike some coordinators attempts to adapt offense to personnel.

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