RPbillsfan Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 22 hours ago, CommonCents said: Exactly. Year after year late round picks and UDFAs come into this league and contribute. There is zero reason to keep an older back when you don’t have his replacement on deck. They should have drafted Chubb last year and got out in front of it, as I said a million times. Instead they signed another veteran in Ivory and went with the AARP approach with the backfield. Draft a guy in in the mid rounds, use a late rounder as a flyer and get rid of the old guys. They offer nothing but name recognition. Yes because I'm sure that Nick Chubb was have been a 1200 yard RB behind that magnificent offensive line the Bills fielded. OJ Simpson, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson in combination in their primes would have problems rushing for 1000 yards behind the garbage and line coaching last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 39 minutes ago, RPbillsfan said: Yes because I'm sure that Nick Chubb was have been a 1200 yard RB behind that magnificent offensive line the Bills fielded. OJ Simpson, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson in combination in their primes would have problems rushing for 1000 yards behind the garbage and line coaching last year. I think we have to remember how bad it actually was. My recollection is that it was a rare event to see a BIlls running back get to the second level without having to break a tackle. The running GAME, not the running BACKS, was abysmal. The Bills finished 9th in the league in rushing, which is remarkable, given how bad the run game was. But they were 9th only because Allen got all those yards, and Allen's rushing yards were really inflated because he's a quarterback. I'd guess that almost half his yards came when he was running completely free on plays where he broke from the pocket and, because the defense was in man and not looking at the QB, he had huge chunks of open field. If you take away all those free yards, the Bills were more like 20th or 25th. Now, I know those are real yards, and every yard counts however you get them, but those yards are NOT evidence that the Bills running game was good. You know all you need to know when McBeane, who are careful not to criticize in public, were very clear that the offensive line play in 2018 was inadequate, wouldn't say that the lineman are good players with futures in Buffalo, and fired the offensive line coach. What they said and what they did in the first week after the season ended was a measure of how bad they thought that aspect of the team was. It's not a secret, I know; we all saw it. It's just that we tend to forget after the season ends. So - keep in mind how bad the offensive line was, keep in mind that the people running the team have by word and deed demonstrated they thought the offensive line was bad, keep in mind how few holes Shady actually had in 2018 as compared to previous years, and keep in mind McBeane's post-season comments about Shady. Put it all together, and I'd say it's about 95% certain that Shady's 2018 lack of production was about something other Shady having lost a step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think we have to remember how bad it actually was. My recollection is that it was a rare event to see a BIlls running back get to the second level without having to break a tackle. The running GAME, not the running BACKS, was abysmal. The Bills finished 9th in the league in rushing, which is remarkable, given how bad the run game was. But they were 9th only because Allen got all those yards, and Allen's rushing yards were really inflated because he's a quarterback. I'd guess that almost half his yards came when he was running completely free on plays where he broke from the pocket and, because the defense was in man and not looking at the QB, he had huge chunks of open field. If you take away all those free yards, the Bills were more like 20th or 25th. Now, I know those are real yards, and every yard counts however you get them, but those yards are NOT evidence that the Bills running game was good. You know all you need to know when McBeane, who are careful not to criticize in public, were very clear that the offensive line play in 2018 was inadequate, wouldn't say that the lineman are good players with futures in Buffalo, and fired the offensive line coach. What they said and what they did in the first week after the season ended was a measure of how bad they thought that aspect of the team was. It's not a secret, I know; we all saw it. It's just that we tend to forget after the season ends. So - keep in mind how bad the offensive line was, keep in mind that the people running the team have by word and deed demonstrated they thought the offensive line was bad, keep in mind how few holes Shady actually had in 2018 as compared to previous years, and keep in mind McBeane's post-season comments about Shady. Put it all together, and I'd say it's about 95% certain that Shady's 2018 lack of production was about something other Shady having lost a step. this is all spot on. i'll add that its truly pathetic when ANY time they ran for 4-6 yds on 1st or 2nd down I was genuinely surprised and relieved. By mid-season I remember sitting there watching a 5 yd run on first down and thinking "wow. how pathetic does the run game have to be that I am this excited about that run?" the pass blocking was streaky and at least showed some competence in spurts..... the run blocking was seriously downright embarrassing 90% of the season. Edited January 31, 2019 by Stank_Nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said: this is all spot on. i'll add that its truly pathetic when ANY time they ran for 4-6 yds on 1st or 2nd down I was genuinely surprised and relieved. By mid-season I remember sitting there watching a 5 yd run on first down and thinking "wow. how pathetic does the run game have to be that I am this excited about that run?" the pass blocking was streaky and at least showed some competence in spurts..... the run blocking was seriously downright embarrassing 90% of the season. I had a different thought. In the second half of the season I'd see that 4-6 yard run and think, fleetingly, "maybe the run game is getting going." Then the next three carries would be into an impenetrable mass of lockers and defenders. I think people also misunderstand how Shady runs. It's actually a little bit like LeVeon Bell, in that he's patient. He waits to see what the best opportunity is and then he goes. Last season he'd wait and often there was NOTHING, so he'd just push in behind the blockers and take what he could. I don't think he was "dancing" (as some people call it) any more last season than in previous years; he just had no place to go. Every once in a while we'd see the flash from earlier seasons, but it didn't seem to me that he was for a moment regaining something he'd lost. Shady needs space to be effective. He needs enough space to give himself options. When he has options is when he hurts defenses. Ivory ran better Shady last season because he's more of a power back - he'd get the same little hole that Shady had and he'd power into it. There was only one way to go and he'd take it. He was strong enough to break an arm tackle here and there and turn a two-yard gain into an occasional five or seven-yard gain. Shady doesn't have the same power, so he'd get stopped for the two. When Shady is effective is when the hole is big enough that he has two options to beat the defender who is coming in to plug the gap. With two options, he can make the man miss. With one option, he can't overpower the tackler like Ivory does occasionally. I'm not talking about huge holes - Shady's in and out of the hole pretty quickly, but he needs a decent sized hole. He got those holes in Philadelphia and in Buffalo before last season. In 2018, they just weren't there. Which is why we're talking about using him in the passing game. Shady needs the ball in enough space to have options, and if they aren't in the line, then the offense should be designed to get him options through the passing game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I had a different thought. In the second half of the season I'd see that 4-6 yard run and think, fleetingly, "maybe the run game is getting going." Then the next three carries would be into an impenetrable mass of lockers and defenders. I think people also misunderstand how Shady runs. It's actually a little bit like LeVeon Bell, in that he's patient. He waits to see what the best opportunity is and then he goes. Last season he'd wait and often there was NOTHING, so he'd just push in behind the blockers and take what he could. I don't think he was "dancing" (as some people call it) any more last season than in previous years; he just had no place to go. Every once in a while we'd see the flash from earlier seasons, but it didn't seem to me that he was for a moment regaining something he'd lost. Shady needs space to be effective. He needs enough space to give himself options. When he has options is when he hurts defenses. Ivory ran better Shady last season because he's more of a power back - he'd get the same little hole that Shady had and he'd power into it. There was only one way to go and he'd take it. He was strong enough to break an arm tackle here and there and turn a two-yard gain into an occasional five or seven-yard gain. Shady doesn't have the same power, so he'd get stopped for the two. When Shady is effective is when the hole is big enough that he has two options to beat the defender who is coming in to plug the gap. With two options, he can make the man miss. With one option, he can't overpower the tackler like Ivory does occasionally. I'm not talking about huge holes - Shady's in and out of the hole pretty quickly, but he needs a decent sized hole. He got those holes in Philadelphia and in Buffalo before last season. In 2018, they just weren't there. Which is why we're talking about using him in the passing game. Shady needs the ball in enough space to have options, and if they aren't in the line, then the offense should be designed to get him options through the passing game. I think a lot of the elite guys are unique in that way..... which is why I've maintained bell needs to be careful about chasing the cheddar. A lot of the teams that have it wont be able to afford him that patience. I said all year that Ivory seemingly being the more efficient runner said much more about the circumstances and the line than it did about Shady. So there's nothing I can disagree with here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 11:16 AM, dneveu said: I could see it - but we have no need of salary cap at the moment, and we aren't going to burn through the cap that we have. So bring him to camp, and confirm if someone can actually take his job. Bills do not need to burn thru cap; there is a target percentage they have to hit over a multiple year period so in 2021 they could sign an extension for a player and use up a lot of money if it is structured right. On 1/30/2019 at 12:38 PM, FLFan said: Yes, he got benched for one play for being late for the team bus. Hardly makes him a locker room cancer. Foster credited Shady for helping him get his head on straight after he was cut and then signed to the practuce squad. That is a much better measure of his locker room value IMO. Please do not confuse irrational ranters with facts; it is rude and it confuses them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Firebaugh Kid Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Draft Darrell Henderson and transition Shady to 3rd down/change of pace. Both are fantastic receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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