John from Riverside Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 I have been to court twice on small claims before, and although both were smaller dollar values than what you have on your hands, I can tell you this: document everything! document everything! document everything! and when you get done documenting everthing document somemore! keep all coorespondance from the contractor including all messages on voicemail. read your contract carefully. if this guy has done anything against what is in the contract he is screwed. if he has done everything in his contract but for some reason you are not satisfied, then you are screwed. 17692[/snapback] On the rocks, Since you have been in small claims court can I ask you something..... I read and reread my contract over my lunch hour....and I just saw something I didn't catch before...... My contract says that this pool company must complete my pool by the "date indicated" but I caught on another page that the pool company wrote in "TBA" as teh date. I didnt think this a big thing at the time because the salesperson went on and on about how they were redoing their scheduling board and could not give me a date THAT DAY..... When the crew came out and excavated when I called in to find out what was next they then gave me the date of Aug 13th.....it had been Aug 13th on their board all the time after that as the "absolutely last drop dead day that they would never reach" until of course the day they reached it and were not finished..... Am I screwed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 On the rocks, Since you have been in small claims court can I ask you something..... I read and reread my contract over my lunch hour....and I just saw something I didn't catch before...... My contract says that this pool company must complete my pool by the "date indicated" but I caught on another page that the pool company wrote in "TBA" as teh date. I didnt think this a big thing at the time because the salesperson went on and on about how they were redoing their scheduling board and could not give me a date THAT DAY..... When the crew came out and excavated when I called in to find out what was next they then gave me the date of Aug 13th.....it had been Aug 13th on their board all the time after that as the "absolutely last drop dead day that they would never reach" until of course the day they reached it and were not finished..... Am I screwed? 17701[/snapback] I'm no lawyer and didn't spend the night at Holiday Inn Express last night , but to me it sounds like they put that in the contract to protect themselves. Because in dealing with a pool contractor myself earlier this year, they all tell you only a week or two from installation to startup but its always a hell of a lot longer. It took them 7 months to finish mine from excavation until the concrete was in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 The work appears to be all finished except for the startup (showing us what everything is and putting chemicals in the water I owe him 3K for installation of the liner and $500 for the startup fee 17554[/snapback] Something in this post is just not adding up. Your saying all he has to do is come over do a start up and collect $3500. Seems he would do that without blinking an eye. Is there really more to this story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 Something in this post is just not adding up. Your saying all he has to do is come over do a start up and collect $3500. Seems he would do that without blinking an eye. Is there really more to this story? 17772[/snapback] Graybeard.... It isn't the quality of workmanship that I am bitching about with this guy it is the fact that he took so long..... He has sent someone over...twice...and I have turned him away because I wanted to talk to the owner of the company about the length of time.... He then promptly threatened to put a lein on my house if I didn't pay...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Graybeard.... It isn't the quality of workmanship that I am bitching about with this guy it is the fact that he took so long..... He has sent someone over...twice...and I have turned him away because I wanted to talk to the owner of the company about the length of time.... He then promptly threatened to put a lein on my house if I didn't pay...... 17812[/snapback] Well, you would have thought he would come over, let you chew him our, give you some free chemicals as a gesture of good will and collect his money. And I can't really see any reason for him not to do it, or to not want to do it. If he screwed up the date, it would still be the good business thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 John, It sounds like you're trying to trim some money from the job because it took so long. Is that really the bottom line here? If it is, do yourself a favor; tell the guy to come over, start up the pool, and you'll give him his final payment. You can also find ANY pool service guy to do your startup, but you want THIS guy to do is to ensure the job he did was right. But look...if you're just trying to make him pay for taking so long, save yourself the aggravation and just get it over with. I know...I know...it's the principle of the thing, but I went through the same thing with my contractor and there just came a time when I wanted to go for a swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 John, It sounds like you're trying to trim some money from the job because it took so long. Is that really the bottom line here? If it is, do yourself a favor; tell the guy to come over, start up the pool, and you'll give him his final payment. You can also find ANY pool service guy to do your startup, but you want THIS guy to do is to ensure the job he did was right. But look...if you're just trying to make him pay for taking so long, save yourself the aggravation and just get it over with. I know...I know...it's the principle of the thing, but I went through the same thing with my contractor and there just came a time when I wanted to go for a swim. 17863[/snapback] LA is absolutely correct John. I am a lawyer, although my practice is patents almost exclusively at this point. However, I have done a lot of work in the contracts area (typically in the context of technology development) and I can tell you that unless there are specific penalty clauses for failure to meet milestone completion dates spelled out in the contract, you are going to be hardpressed to get damages for delay. Because I haven't read your contract (obviously), it is difficult to assess your options. But unless delay causes you direct damages that are contemplated expressly in the contract, it is tough to get relief on that basis. I don't blame you for being po'd, but it would cost you a lot more money trying to win what amounts to consequential damages (the pool was delayed so I was inconvenienced in some way), damages which are probably severely limited or disclaimed in the contract anyway. Look for the all caps provision that says WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES yada yada. If it makes you feel better, tell him after everything is said and done that you notified the BBB that he makes promises regarding time frame that he can't keep (although frankly, with seasonal businesses like this, they all tell you they can get it done in a time frame that they can't because they need to pull in as many jobs as they can) and that you will not recommend him to anyone who inquires. Then tell him you have consulted with an attorney and if he doesn't honor your warranty, your lawyer will sue him for willful breach of contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoveldog Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 LA is absolutely correct John. I am a lawyer, although my practice is patents almost exclusively at this point. However, I have done a lot of work in the contracts area (typically in the context of technology development) and I can tell you that unless there are specific penalty clauses for failure to meet milestone completion dates spelled out in the contract, you are going to be hardpressed to get damages for delay. Because I haven't read your contract (obviously), it is difficult to assess your options. But unless delay causes you direct damages that are contemplated expressly in the contract, it is tough to get relief on that basis. I don't blame you for being po'd, but it would cost you a lot more money trying to win what amounts to consequential damages (the pool was delayed so I was inconvenienced in some way), damages which are probably severely limited or disclaimed in the contract anyway. Look for the all caps provision that says WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES yada yada. If it makes you feel better, tell him after everything is said and done that you notified the BBB that he makes promises regarding time frame that he can't keep (although frankly, with seasonal businesses like this, they all tell you they can get it done in a time frame that they can't because they need to pull in as many jobs as they can) and that you will not recommend him to anyone who inquires. Then tell him you have consulted with an attorney and if he doesn't honor your warranty, your lawyer will sue him for willful breach of contract. 18118[/snapback] Well said.... Besides all that; your warrantee is most likely material and workmanship. While the contractor would most certainly be responsible for the workmanship, the material warrantee is usually from the manufacturer of the liner. If it is just delays you are concerned about... pony up and pay the man. If the guy did the work, he deserves to be paid. If you checked the BBB and Dept of Consumer Affairs before you hired him, most likely this is NOT a regular occurance. Weather plays a major role in many seasonal businesses and this has been a very wet season. I'm not making excuses for him, but lets be realistic here. Sounds to me that the work is done and you are witholding money because you're not happy with how long it took. The work is done.... pay da man, move on and talk with your wallet by never using him again. File a claim with the BBB and Dept of Consumer affairs. He can't withhold your warrantee without contractual legal problems, but you know now that you raised this stink that he will be slow to respond to any warrantee issues anyway. Suck it up as a life lesson learned and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 To all that responded.... Thanks for the info....I filed a BBB complaint and called the contractors association that he belongs to.... Then I paid him in full..... Regarding checking for BBB....I did all that...as stated in another thread I checked out ALL the pool companies with the BBB to make sure they were members and had a good record..... I signed my contract back at the end of may....this contractor ended his BBB status on Aug 6th....imagine that LA....you are totally right...I was trying to get some compensation just because of the time it took to do all this....the workmanship is quite good....the pool looks great and was very well constructed.... Time to put this behind me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsue Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Hope your pooches bite him in the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp000085 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 I guess you learned that TBA is not a concrete date for your next contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Time to put this behind me..... Sometimes, mi amigo, we're not the ones who get to exact revenge. But as sure as God made little green apples, you can bet a day will come when your contractor gets fugged by SOMEBODY. I learned last year my pool guy ultimately went ouf of business and filed bankruptcy because of a lawsuit. All in good time.... Enjoy the pool. How long before you can use it? I think you have to wait a bit once the start up has begun, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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