DC Tom Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 who said anything about old money? it's concentration of money that's at issue. ATD sold for 700mm. i'm guessing the founder is in the .01%. most likely all on the list are. and they were likely financed by others already in that group. and this concentration has all materialized from gaming an already corrupt system. i'm not claiming it's the root of the problem but it's certainly a symptom and folks like you see it as ok. i don't. Holy Ignorant Oversimplification, Batman! You honestly seem to think that everyone with a net worth of eight figures or higher is running not just a scam, but each is running every single scam you can think of, in coordination with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Holy Ignorant Oversimplification, Batman! You honestly seem to think that everyone with a net worth of eight figures or higher is running not just a scam, but each is running every single scam you can think of, in coordination with each other. holy ignorant interpretation....i'll leave you to seach out the meaning of "symptom" in this context on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 who said anything about old money? it's concentration of money that's at issue. ATD sold for 700mm. i'm guessing the founder is in the .01%. most likely all on the list are. and they were likely financed by others already in that group. and this concentration has all materialized from gaming an already corrupt system. i'm not claiming it's the root of the problem but it's certainly a symptom and folks like you see it as ok. i don't. What in the world does this have to do with HFT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 who said anything about old money? it's concentration of money that's at issue. ATD sold for 700mm. i'm guessing the founder is in the .01%. most likely all on the list are. and they were likely financed by others already in that group. and this concentration has all materialized from gaming an already corrupt system. i'm not claiming it's the root of the problem but it's certainly a symptom and folks like you see it as ok. i don't. Actually, I don't beleive anyone has stated that they are "OK" with it. Everyone has said that there are possible troubling aspects as relates to getting the price information from the exchanges ahead of executed trades. They have also acknowledged possible upsides to these trades, though GG specifically has admitted that we don't have any definitive data bearing that out one way of the other. What you judge to be our insufficient enthusiam for your "Eat the rich!" battle cry is not the same thing as being "OK with it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) who said anything about old money? it's concentration of money that's at issue. ATD sold for 700mm. i'm guessing the founder is in the .01%. most likely all on the list are. and they were likely financed by others already in that group. and this concentration has all materialized from gaming an already corrupt system. i'm not claiming it's the root of the problem but it's certainly a symptom and folks like you see it as ok. i don't. How can you talk about wealth concentration and eliminate old money? Who do you think the "stock market winners" are if not old money and the already rich? In your estimation are evils of wealth concentration limited to le riche nouveau, specifically the newly rich who engage in HFT (which are small fish on Wall Street)? With every post you venture further and further into the realm of fantastical bull **** which you can't even begin to back up. Edited April 7, 2014 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 How can you talk about wealth concentration and eliminate old money? Who do you think the "stock market winners" are if not old money and the already rich? In your estimation are evils of wealth concentration limited to le riche nouveau, specifically the newly rich who engage in HFT (which are small fish on Wall Street)? With every post you venture further and further into the realm of fantastical bull **** which you can't even begin to back up. these borderline unethical tactics are emblematic of the current trend towards massive wealth inequality. it's certainly been true that "money follows money" for most of history but we are approaching or have entered record levels and it's being accomplished in many cases by unsavory and sometimes outright deceptive practices that seems to be accepted behavior by many just as long as you don't get caught. even then it's rationalized as being good somehow. and it's almost never seriously punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 these borderline unethical tactics are emblematic of the current trend towards massive wealth inequality. it's certainly been true that "money follows money" for most of history but we are approaching or have entered record levels and it's being accomplished in many cases by unsavory and sometimes outright deceptive practices that seems to be accepted behavior by many just as long as you don't get caught. even then it's rationalized as being good somehow. and it's almost never seriously punished. Great. You finally posted something resembling sense, save for the bolded which is a fundamental misrepresentation of this thread so far. Too bad your first coherent post in this thread has !@#$-all to do with the topic. Anytime there's some type of Wall Street scandal you fit it in to your wealth concentration/robber baron narrative and it makes no sense within this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 holy ignorant interpretation....i'll leave you to seach out the meaning of "symptom" in this context on your own. That's not what I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Anytime there's some type of Wall Street scandal you fit it in to your wealth concentration/robber baron narrative and it makes no sense within this context. I closed my FB account last year but I'm assuming this kind of discussion (i.e. what Birdog usually rants about) is going on and on all over the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I closed my FB account last year but I'm assuming this kind of discussion (i.e. what Birdog usually rants about) is going on and on all over the internet. I don't see anything about it on my feed. The story isn't being covered on CNN. It was buried on WSJ. Its not quite the controversy he's made it out to be. Its an interesting story and I'll probably read Lewis' latest book at some point, but its not getting a ton of traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I don't see anything about it on my feed. The story isn't being covered on CNN. It was buried on WSJ. Its not quite the controversy he's made it out to be. Its an interesting story and I'll probably read Lewis' latest book at some point, but its not getting a ton of traction. I figured since it passed on Stewart that it would. Maybe give it until it passes on Maher's show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I don't see anything about it on my feed. The story isn't being covered on CNN. It was buried on WSJ. Its not quite the controversy he's made it out to be. Its an interesting story and I'll probably read Lewis' latest book at some point, but its not getting a ton of traction. c'mon. bloomberg, forbes, yahoo, finance, nbc,cbs, cnbc, abc, pbs, npr and even fox business news did major stories on this. many (including fox business news) even delved into the deeper implications: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2014/04/01/60-minutes-stopped-short-unveiling-unspoken-problem-high-frequency-trading/. i have to admit, this is one of the more profound analyses that i've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) c'mon. bloomberg, forbes, yahoo, finance, nbc,cbs, cnbc, abc, pbs, npr and even fox business news did major stories on this. many (including fox business news) even delved into the deeper implications: http://www.foxbusine...quency-trading/. i have to admit, this is one of the more profound analyses that i've read. It's nowhere near the more profound pieces on the subject, and not surprising that you found a puff piece to be profound. Did the word "insider trading" throw you for a loop? If you want a better education, read this. Doubt you'll understand it, though. Edited April 8, 2014 by GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 c'mon. bloomberg, forbes, yahoo, finance, nbc,cbs, cnbc, abc, pbs, npr and even fox business news did major stories on this. many (including fox business news) even delved into the deeper implications: http://www.foxbusine...quency-trading/. i have to admit, this is one of the more profound analyses that i've read. So, Fox is full of schit unless it agrees with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) It's nowhere near the more profound pieces on the subject, and not surprising that you found a puff piece to be profound. Did the word "insider trading" throw you for a loop? If you want a better education, read this. Doubt you'll understand it, though. i think i can fathom it: if you think hft's suck, you should look at the past. it sucked worse. beating a 2.4% expense ratio isn't that difficult in theory. in practice it is because the rules are made and have previously been made by others than retail investors. and who are the retail investors? he rightly points out they make up less than 10% of the populace when looking at any meaningful amounts invested (and this is where the difference between that 10% and the .01% becomes even more dramatic). how many of those investors are stock pickers primarily? of that 10%, i'd estimate it's the minority. so the "smart" retail investors are utilizing investment companies like fidelity, t rowe price and vanguard except they too are being taken by the hft's and in some instances the expense ratios.. therefore, choose the lesser of evils and you get ripped off less. how bout devising a system where the retail investor doesn't get ripped off at all? well, that would eliminate billions for the financial industry to rake in just for existing. and since it runs the show and makes the rules, that would be unthinkable. kinda like taking private insurance out of health care. he's right. the way to riches is still the hedge fund. and that speaks volumes about the current and past state of affairs on "the street". as salmon states, as far as intermediaries, "everybody is in on the game". that's true as long as you aren't the retail investors. we are the game. So, Fox is full of schit unless it agrees with you? yes. sort of like slate. i Edited April 8, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 i think i can fathom it: if you think hft's suck, you should look at the past. it sucked worse. beating a 2.4% expense ratio isn't that difficult in theory. in practice it is because the rules are made and have previously been made by others than retail investors. and who are the retail investors? he rightly points out they make up less than 10% of the populace when looking at any meaningful amounts invested (and this is where the difference between that 10% and the .01% becomes even more dramatic). how many of those investors are stock pickers primarily? of that 10%, i'd estimate it's the minority. so the "smart" retail investors are utilizing investment companies like fidelity, t rowe price and vanguard except they too are being taken by the hft's and in some instances the expense ratios.. therefore, choose the lesser of evils and you get ripped off less. how bout devising a system where the retail investor doesn't get ripped off at all? well, that would eliminate billions for the financial industry to rake in just for existing. and since it runs the show and makes the rules, that would be unthinkable. kinda like taking private insurance out of health care. he's right. the way to riches is still the hedge fund. and that speaks volumes about the current and past state of affairs on "the street". as salmon states, as far as intermediaries, "everybody is in on the game". that's true as long as you aren't the retail investors. we are the game. yes. sort of like slate. i This appears eerily familiar. Are you quoting yourself as a source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 This appears eerily familiar. Are you quoting yourself as a source? read the slate article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 read the slate article. We all did. You're just the one foaming at the mouth as a result. And learn to use a !@#$ing paragraph. I get it, you're on an ipad or mobile but your responses are unreadable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 We all did. You're just the one foaming at the mouth as a result. And learn to use a !@#$ing paragraph. I get it, you're on an ipad or mobile but your responses are unreadable. All lower case doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 All lower case doesn't help. Sometimes i'm not sure if he's posting or EII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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