San-O Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I'm going to call B.S. on both Brandon, Marrone and their analyics. Anyone on this board pretty much knew or throught the ST coaching hire by Marrone was a bad one: BS in, BS out. Marrone hired his pal for ST coordinator, and the ST went from about 8th in the league to 30th: no analytics required for that one. Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. STOP THE BS! Marrone-Brandon & Analytics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I'm going to call B.S. on both Brandon, Marrone and their analyics. Anyone on this board pretty much knew or throught the ST coaching hire by Marrone was a bad one: BS in, BS out. Marrone hired his pal for ST coordinator, and the ST went from about 8th in the league to 30th: no analytics required for that one. Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. STOP THE BS! Marrone-Brandon & Analytics Well, here's another thing you run into when you do analytics. Rather than the guy who is looking to prove...here we have the guy who is looking to disprove, and if he can't find his answer, or if anything contradicts him, then everything you're doing is wrong, automagically. I say(and Todd says) again: there's little-no chance that the analytics systems is even up and running, PROPERLY, at this point. Therefore, there's also little-no chance that analytics was used in the decision-making to retain Crossman. But(here's what I don't get to say to clients, so this is fun) by all means, go ahead and rant away, while you're at it: run down the block and throw ALL the babies out with their bathwater. When you're done? Crossman will still be the ST coach. Now what? Edited January 18, 2014 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Well, here's another thing you run into when you do analytics. Rather than the guy who is looking to prove...here we have the guy who is looking to disprove, and if he can't find his answer, or if anything contradicts him, then everything you're doing is wrong, automagically. I say(and Todd says) again: there's little-no chance that the analytics systems is even up and running, PROPERLY, at this point. Therefore, there's also little-no chance that analytics was used in the decision-making to retain Crossman. But(here's what I don't get to say to clients, so this is fun) by all means, go ahead and rant away, while you're at it: run down the block and throw ALL the babies out with their bathwater. When you're done? Crossman will still be the ST coach. Now what? I have been misunderstood I believe: I am HOPING they get an analytics dept. up and running, obviously it was not a consideration when selecting ST coaches. I'm pretty sure it was not used to select a QB either, so why go out in a limb and say anything when you don't have it, or don't use it? Not saying BS to analytics, saying BS to Marrone and Brandon for not having it or not using it, or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 So, who is the real cause of your suffering? Suffering? I was just busting your chops...and I "know" you know that...even without formal analysis. More emoticons: were demanded. I have merely: responded. Are you sure about this? Was that the only reason? Perhaps you are being played by an emoticon craving, diaper buying, beer drinking troll... As I said above, I enjoyed your post. At face value, your example is a 'crazy' correlation in terms of shopping patterns. Undressed, however, it makes perfect sense. I'll be interested to hear your opinion in the future as it relates to the Bills use of this type of question/solution seeking. Not sure how much we will be able to 'see' from the outside though. In my mind, it all seems like a bit of a leap to apply this in the world of professional sports. I can see how it would help with product presentation/sales/marketing etc.; but I'm not as confident in it markedly affecting the on field product. I'll offer that a lot of that may have to do with my naivete in terms of this type of thought. Perhaps, you and others, can shed some light as we see how the Bills use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 When you're done? Crossman will still be the ST coach. Now what? If history repeats itself, which it often does, the Bills will be either 31st or 32nd in Special Teams in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 As a guy who's been getting paid to do "analytics" for quite some time, I believe I can answer your question. So what's the difference between analytics and behavioral economics, especially concerning behavior? (Analytics, I would think, also includes non-behavioral analyses.) Because I love me some behavioral economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis in NC Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 You don't approach analytics in terms of looking for the answers to your questions, or what "I believe". Clients constantly struggle with this. Yes, if you go looking for an answer, you'll probably find it: because your methodology was designed to find it. This is doing it wrong. Doing it right = You let questions, not answers, come to you. Questions, such as "Hey! There seems to be a connection between lowering the price of beer, and increased diaper sales, I wonder why?", is where the value of analytics becomes clear. OC, I wanted to thank you for this great post a few weeks back. I have worked with SQL, and read about Hadoop, etc, but did not have a good understanding of analytics. You gave a great explanation of the concepts. The phrase "required reading" came up in the Jim Schwartz post, and I think your posts in this thread qualified as required reading also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I think the key to understanding how the Bills are making use of analytics is best seen in that the new guy was placed under the supervision of Jim Overdorf. If the Bills were planning to make their major use of analytics be to use this tool to directly improve their on field football performance then he likely been placed under the direction of Merrone. The HC is on the depth chart with gameday authority and strategic decisions about play. Instead, he is being guided by Overdorfer whose job it is to negotiate contracts and keep then as low as possible through negotiation. Analytics appear to be used by this team NOT primarily to improve play or analyze this weeks' opponent but instead as a tool to help the Bills assess and make the case for holding down Bills player salaries. One of the big words used after Marrone was hired by both him & the Bills grand pooh bah Russ Brandon was analytics . They talked about using them & have started a new analytics department at one Bills drive . I did graduate from high school so Russ & Marrone are much smarter than i so i had to look up exactly what the word meant which probably won't surprise many of you after reading a few of my posts ! The definition is as follows Analytics - Logic - the science of logical analysis . If they were so big on introducing this to the Bills why wasn't it used in building the current coaching staff ? There was no reason why they couldn't have opened the door for any of the other coaches to stay which could have meant players staying too . While watching the play offs i saw more than one of the Bills old coaches from Gailey's coaching staff prowling the side lines of some of the play off teams such as in San diego - Joe Dealisondris - Carolina - Bruce Dehaven & if any of you can add to this list please do ! I know that when a new coach comes in they want there guys with them but last year our O line was as good as it's been in years ! Good enough for CJ to average 6 YPC & allow a very low amount of sacks, & if Bruce Dehaven isn't better than Crossman then i'm going to put in my application for the ST coach . I didn't really care for the coaching choice but we have him now & i think he is a very passionate HC & has the team headed in the right direction . I also hope that he proves me totally wrong in what i thought of him being chosen ! But why didn't they use their brain child of installing this analytics thing while putting together his now staff ? It just makes little to no sense what so ever to be so gung hoe about something then don't use it immediately because he had all the previous years stats & how the Bills did . Not to mention it would have been less change as far as blocking schemes & would have gotten the offense up to speed much quicker !! Well it's all yours Bills fans what do you think ? If this has been discussed sorry but i must have missed it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) You have to study analytics. They are a form of data to be analyzed. People saying we should have kept DeHaven instead of Crossman may be correct, but they probably think our coverage was better with DeHaven. In fact in 2012 we allowed 2 more return TD's and our punt coverage was the worst in the league. But analytics tell us Dehaven was so much better. Well he was rated higher because Mckelvin and Brad Smith were awesome returning. Another thing, the difference between Powell and Moorman was huge. The Patriots game happened, but we could all see it was missed tackles. If Bills players make those tackles Bills special teams coverage was actually very good after they made changes. As for Brandon and Marrone wanting analytics, they just went all out for the biggest believer of analytics in the NFL, Schwartz. Im sure we hear it mentioned when they introduce him to the media. Edited January 27, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Wonder if Brandon will task the Director of Analytics with determining what variables have the greatest impact on new ownership's decision whether or not to retain a lame duck head honcho? Edited January 27, 2014 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Wonder if Brandon will task the Director of Analytics with determining what variables have the greatest impact on new ownership's decision whether or not to retain a lame duck head honcho? I think it is all about figuring out how the Bills can make the best analytical case for offering a p;ayer the lowest salary they can justify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts