It could be very close to Matt Flynn time

[Alphadawg7]

I like Thad Lewis. He had a very good first game against the Bengals in which he had a rushing TD and two passing TDs to force OT against a very good team. But I feel he has regressed in each of the last two games. Yesterday was his worst game of the 3. He did not protect the football and his passes were much more inaccurate than they had been in his first two games.

 

The Chiefs are a great defense, but I don't think you can allow Lewis to play a third straight poor offensive game without considering giving Flynn a start in week 10. The Bills are a good enough team to stay above water with Manuel out, but the QB play needs to be more like what we saw in the Bengals game and less like what we saw against the Saints for them to have a chance to do that.

 

Chiefs have not given up more than 17 points all year. Bills have not scored less than 17 points all year. Something has to give on Sunday, and if it's the Bills offense, I would be in favor of giving Flynn a look in week 9.

 

Does not matter who the starter is here, the backup is always the most popular. How quickly people forget how bad Flynn was in Seattle and how much worse he was in Oakland. He was so bad in Oakland, that he couldn't even secure a backup spot...Trent Edwards replaced him for crying out loud.

 

Thad is playing good enough for us to win games for the most part. People act like we are getting blown out of games, I mean even the Saints game was a lot closer than the score suggests.

 

Flynn was not good when he had a whole offseason to learn an offense...why do people think he will be any good here with 2 weeks of learning our offense?

 

Not to mention, Thad can run the same offense we want to run with EJ...Flynn not so much. Stick with Thad until EJ comes back or take a look at Dixon. Dixon can also run the offense that we will run with EJ, and I think if there is a guy that could push Thad it will be him, not Flynn.

[KikO M G]

It was Thad's first road game...since the previous Sunday...

[Orton's Arm]

Sorry. He is an NFL QB. Bad weather is not an excuse, hostile stadium is not an excuse. This is the NFL not pop warner.

 

It wasn't even that he played poorly for all the reason you mentioned, he never had a chance. He looked scared and unprepared. This from the only QB to actually stay healthy all through mini camp and TC? It was apparent before his second drive started we had no shot with Tuel in there. None

 

And IMO evaluation is for practice time and mini camp and TC. We are trying to institute a culture change here in Buffalo. Throwing the worst possible option you have out there just to watch him fail shows two things.

1) You don't want to win

2) Screw all the guys playing hard today because its about next season.

 

> Sorry. He is an NFL QB. Bad weather is not an excuse . . .

 

Agreed. A real NFL QB never has a bad game; or even half a bad game. A real NFL quarterback isn't affected by whether there is or isn't pass protection, whether his receivers get open or not, whether they drop passes, whether he's a rookie, or whether he was given any snaps in practice leading up to the game. A real NFL quarterback finds a way to overcome.

 

The problem with that definition of a "real" quarterback is that no one meets it.

.

 

Nor does Joe Montana. In the AFC Championship Game between the Bills and the Chiefs, the Bills' defense dominated Joe Montana's supporting cast almost as completely as the Browns had dominated the Bills' supporting cast. The Chiefs' passing game was mostly shut down as a result, and Montana didn't look nearly as good as he had a week earlier.

 

If being a rookie made Peyton Manning look bad, and if having his supporting cast totally dominated made Joe Montana look ordinary, then how is Jeff Tuel supposed to cope with both problems at once? Add to that the fact that Tuel had been given few if any practice reps since the start of the regular season, and what you have is a guy who was set up to fail.

 

> He looked scared and unprepared.

 

I noticed that he had a nervous expression on his face when he was warming up on the sidelines. That nervousness became apparent in the game on some of the grounder throws he made. He will have to become confident if he's going to become a long-term backup QB. Positive visualization is part of the solution. Another part is better preparation: specifically the opportunity to get the majority of the practice reps in the week leading up to the game.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Edwards' Arm

[Leelee Phoenix]

Why did we sign Flynn then?

Because they will avoid Jeff Tuel ever starting after the Cleveland debacle

 

On the Sunday Night broadcast a few weeks ago, Houston was playing and Al Michal's brought up starting Yates and benching Schaub. Chris C stated it likely wasn't a good idea because as a backup, likely he's getting maybe two snaps a week with the 1st team, and Yates is a guy who'd been there all season, so no not unusual that Flynn doesn't yet know the offense. I've heard/read this elsewhere too so no exception here in Buffalo, that's the way all teams seem to operate. Same thing happened last year with the guy they picked up Jackson was his name?? At this point, the only way Lewis comes out is if he gets hurt. Else you go with him a couple more weeks till EJ is back.

And Keenum ended up starting and keeping a healthy Schaub on the bench this week

 

The lack of snaps in practice stuff is filler babble for the media to pretend they know these millionaires are hardworking blah blah

[K-9]

> Sorry. He is an NFL QB. Bad weather is not an excuse . . .

 

Agreed. A real NFL QB never has a bad game; or even half a bad game. A real NFL quarterback isn't affected by whether there is or isn't pass protection, whether his receivers get open or not, whether they drop passes, whether he's a rookie, or whether he was given any snaps in practice leading up to the game. A real NFL quarterback finds a way to overcome.

 

The problem with that definition of a "real" quarterback is that no one meets it.

.

 

Nor does Joe Montana. In the AFC Championship Game between the Bills and the Chiefs, the Bills' defense dominated Joe Montana's supporting cast almost as completely as the Browns had dominated the Bills' supporting cast. The Chiefs' passing game was mostly shut down as a result, and Montana didn't look nearly as good as he had a week earlier.

 

If being a rookie made Peyton Manning look bad, and if having his supporting cast totally dominated made Joe Montana look ordinary, then how is Jeff Tuel supposed to cope with both problems at once? Add to that the fact that Tuel had been given few if any practice reps since the start of the regular season, and what you have is a guy who was set up to fail.

 

> He looked scared and unprepared.

 

I noticed that he had a nervous expression on his face when he was warming up on the sidelines. That nervousness became apparent in the game on some of the grounder throws he made. He will have to become confident if he's going to become a long-term backup QB. Positive visualization is part of the solution. Another part is better preparation: specifically the opportunity to get the majority of the practice reps in the week leading up to the game.

 

A real NFL QB is prepared to play the game, regardless. Tuel was anything BUT prepared for that game. You've mentioned several times now how Tuel was victimized by receivers that couldn't get open or dropped the ball. I'm wondering if you watched the game. He MISSED open receivers from the moment he got in, didn't go to the correct receivers because he couldn't read the defense, and he made Trent Edwards look absolutely decisive by comparison.

 

You can blame his coaches and supporting cast all you want but there were plays to be made and he wasn't up to the task. Not by a long shot. You want to imagine the coaches have somehow shorted him by not giving him a fair chance well, they had ample reason after that performance. It's a question of trust moving forward and Tuel gave them NO reason to trust him simply based on his play. No reason at all.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Trader]

Blocking.... Blocking....Blocking When the rush is in your face it does not matter who your QB is.

[Maybe Someday]

Sorry. He is an NFL QB. Bad weather is not an excuse, hostile stadium is not an excuse. This is the NFL not pop warner.

 

It wasn't even that he played poorly for all the reason you mentioned, he never had a chance. He looked scared and unprepared. This from the only QB to actually stay healthy all through mini camp and TC? It was apparent before his second drive started we had no shot with Tuel in there. None

 

And IMO evaluation is for practice time and mini camp and TC. We are trying to institute a culture change here in Buffalo. Throwing the worst possible option you have out there just to watch him fail shows two things.

1) You don't want to win

2) Screw all the guys playing hard today because its about next season.

 

What a player does in practice as opposed to on game day are 2 totally different things. With the new CBA, they can barely touch each other in practice these days so it’s hard to really evaluate a player. Plus this is a rebuilding year...I'd rather know by the end of the season what we have in every player on this roster so we can replace them if that’s best for this team rather than not knowing and end up carrying a player into camp next year that can't hack it.

Edited October 29, 2013 by 3 --> 10 Connection

[Orton's Arm]

 

 

A real NFL QB is prepared to play the game, regardless. Tuel was anything BUT prepared for that game. You've mentioned several times now how Tuel was victimized by receivers that couldn't get open or dropped the ball. I'm wondering if you watched the game. He MISSED open receivers from the moment he got in, didn't go to the correct receivers because he couldn't read the defense, and he made Trent Edwards look absolutely decisive by comparison.

 

You can blame his coaches and supporting cast all you want but there were plays to be made and he wasn't up to the task. Not by a long shot. You want to imagine the coaches have somehow shorted him by not giving him a fair chance well, they had ample reason after that performance. It's a question of trust moving forward and Tuel gave them NO reason to trust him simply based on his play. No reason at all.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

> He MISSED open receivers from the moment he got in

 

I'm not disputing the fact he had a bad game. There were times when his throws hit the ground before reaching the intended receiver; and times when he made the wrong read. But there were plenty of other times when there was simply no pass protection; or times when there was maybe some pass protection but no one open.

 

> You can blame his coaches and supporting cast all you want but there were plays to be made and he wasn't up to the task.

 

If that's the standard you want to use when evaluating rookie quarterbacks, fine. But what happens the next time E.J. Manuel doesn't make plays that were there to be made? Do we write him off, the way you've written off Tuel?

 

When Manuel makes a mental error, a lot of people react with, "He's a rookie; and rookies make mental errors." When Tuel makes mental errors--with far more excuse than Manuel--the reaction is, "I don't care if Tuel is a rookie. Professional football players are expected to be prepared, and Tuel's mental errors show a lack of preparation."

[K-9]

> He MISSED open receivers from the moment he got in

 

I'm not disputing the fact he had a bad game. There were times when his throws hit the ground before reaching the intended receiver; and times when he made the wrong read. But there were plenty of other times when there was simply no pass protection; or times when there was maybe some pass protection but no one open.

 

> You can blame his coaches and supporting cast all you want but there were plays to be made and he wasn't up to the task.

 

If that's the standard you want to use when evaluating rookie quarterbacks, fine. But what happens the next time E.J. Manuel doesn't make plays that were there to be made? Do we write him off, the way you've written off Tuel?

 

When Manuel makes a mental error, a lot of people react with, "He's a rookie; and rookies make mental errors." When Tuel makes mental errors--with far more excuse than Manuel--the reaction is, "I don't care if Tuel is a rookie. Professional football players are expected to be prepared, and Tuel's mental errors show a lack of preparation."

 

EJ Manuel hasn't come CLOSE to looking as ill-prepared to do his job. And if he ever does, I hope the coaches have the good sense to get somebody else in there. Fortunately he hasn't come close to showing the level of ineptitude that Tuel showed. Tuel missed EVERY play there was to be made. Let's not pretend he missed a couple.

 

There is just no way you can justify Tuel not getting a fair chance from these coaches after they handed him the #2 job and gave him every meaningful backup rep since Kolb went down. Tuel's performance was a choke job of big proportions and he played himself out of his job.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited October 29, 2013 by K-9

[8-8 Forever?]

I like Thad Lewis. He had a very good first game against the Bengals in which he had a rushing TD and two passing TDs to force OT against a very good team. But I feel he has regressed in each of the last two games. Yesterday was his worst game of the 3. He did not protect the football and his passes were much more inaccurate than they had been in his first two games.

 

The Chiefs are a great defense, but I don't think you can allow Lewis to play a third straight poor offensive game without considering giving Flynn a start in week 10. The Bills are a good enough team to stay above water with Manuel out, but the QB play needs to be more like what we saw in the Bengals game and less like what we saw against the Saints for them to have a chance to do that.

 

Chiefs have not given up more than 17 points all year. Bills have not scored less than 17 points all year. Something has to give on Sunday, and if it's the Bills offense, I would be in favor of giving Flynn a look in week 9.

No. We need to hope TL, the run game and turnover defense can get us 1 or 2 of the next 3, get EJ back and go on a run against weaker opposition in the 5 games after the bye. they need to go 6 and 2 in the second half. If TL gets us past the Chiefs, he will have done his job as a backup, beating Phins on road and Chiefs at home. I think EJ is back for the Jets.

[Orton's Arm]

 

 

EJ Manuel hasn't come CLOSE to looking as ill-prepared to do his job. And if he ever does, I hope the coaches have the good sense to get somebody else in there. Fortunately he hasn't come close to showing the level of ineptitude that Tuel showed. Tuel missed EVERY play there was to be made. Let's not pretend he missed a couple.

 

There is just no way you can justify Tuel not getting a fair chance from these coaches after they handed him the #2 job and gave him every meaningful backup rep since Kolb went down. Tuel's performance was a choke job of big proportions and he played himself out of his job.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

> EJ Manuel hasn't come CLOSE to looking as ill-prepared to do his job.

 

Granted. But then again, he hasn't had to deal with the complete collapse of pass protection the Bills experienced when Tuel was under center. There are plenty of QBs who will look flustered if they're not getting protection. That effect may be more pronounced with rookie QBs than with veterans.

 

> and gave him every meaningful backup rep since Kolb went down.

 

I have not seen anything to indicate that Tuel had been given any practice reps in the week leading up to the Browns game. Maybe that was because it was a short week. Then again, there's also a strong possibility they don't give their backup QB practice reps during the regular season. A rookie QB needs all the practice reps he can get!

[K-9]

> EJ Manuel hasn't come CLOSE to looking as ill-prepared to do his job.

 

Granted. But then again, he hasn't had to deal with the complete collapse of pass protection the Bills experienced when Tuel was under center. There are plenty of QBs who will look flustered if they're not getting protection. That effect may be more pronounced with rookie QBs than with veterans.

 

> and gave him every meaningful backup rep since Kolb went down.

 

I have not seen anything to indicate that Tuel had been given any practice reps in the week leading up to the Browns game. Maybe that was because it was a short week. Then again, there's also a strong possibility they don't give their backup QB practice reps during the regular season. A rookie QB needs all the practice reps he can get!

 

I don't recall the protection completely breaking down against Cleveland when Tuel got in there. He was too slow in dealing with it, that's for sure.

 

You're right, backup QBs get few practice reps during the regular season. But Kolb was hurt in pre-season, TWICE, and Tuel got all the backup reps then, as well as some starter reps in camp. More importantly, he is supposed to be preparing as if he's the starter in terms of game-plan and film study.

 

For whatever reason, the coaches certainly think it's more than no help from receivers, poor protection, and bad weather against Cleveland that convinced them to go in another direction. It's not like they invested all the time and preparation for him to be #2 only to replace him on a whim. He made their choice easy.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

> My question is more along the lines of how badly is he hurt, and is it bad enough to force them to get Flynn ready sooner rather than later?

 

Maybe it's time for Tuel.

 

 

 

> You dont give up on a guy over a bad game.

 

Unless his name is Jeff Tuel. Then you give up on him over half of a bad game.

 

It's quite possible that once Tuel has been properly evaluated, the Bills will decide to move in a different direction. But he has not yet been put in a position where success was a realistic possibility.

 

I've been thinking about this. Marrone seems to have an even keel, so I'm sure he's aware Tuel was put into a difficult situation. I wonder, though. Marrone also seems to be a "my way or the highway" kind of guy. Tuel fell from favor so fast and so far, that I wonder if Tuel's mistakes went beyond what was seen in the game - if he failed to prepare on the game plan itself or did/didn't do things he was specifically instructed to not do/do. It almost seems as though he's been put into QB "time out" or something.