The Big Cat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) right, but its possible to argue one, even with foresight was probably the better choice. if a back does break a tackle and gets a big gain, sure.... but the risk/reward going for it there is an awfully stacked ratio (and not in the good direction). could we have gotten lucky, sure. we also couldve gotten lucky running the ball. a bad choice that works out doesnt make it the right choice necessarily and id argue that wasnt the place to push it even if they scored. Okay, but let's look at the reality of the situation: running the ball/clock would have made NO DIFFERENCE. Miami drove the ball and used...get this...ZERO timeouts. If we would have forced them to burn them on defense, the outcome WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. Edited October 21, 2013 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 whats wrong with Chip Kelly? Im not the biggest Andy Reid fan but you cant deny the job he is doing although he did luck out with good defensive personel already in place. He is back to what worked for him early in his career with the eagles before he became pass happy...good defense, solid offense with a strong running game When was this? He was always pass happy & frankly was ahead of his time in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Okay, but let's look at the reality of the situation: running the ball/clock would have made NO DIFFERENCE. Miami drove the ball and used...get this...ZERO timeouts. If we would have forced them to burn them on defense, the outcome WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. for all we know we wouldve run the ball and they couldve run the punt back - im not talking about the result, im talking about the decision making process there being wrong. they took a very small increase at a reward and much more greatly increased the risk. even if miami didnt score, i dont like the decision making process in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 for all we know we wouldve run the ball and they couldve run the punt back - im not talking about the result, im talking about the decision making process there being wrong. they took a very small increase at a reward and much more greatly increased the risk. even if miami didnt score, i dont like the decision making process in that situation. i think you're unfairly evaluating "risk" with the benefit of hindsight. the "risk" is dependent fully on marrone's faith in the defense...which had held them to 3 and out in the three prior possessions, and had held them to a whole lot of nothing in all drives prior to that with the exception of the lone TD drive. now, add in the benefit of hindsight, and remove their TD drive to start the second half, that was pretty much the case all day. the dolphins moved the ball opportunistically, but not consistently, far from it. so in that respect, the risk was relatively low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 i think you're unfairly evaluating "risk" with the benefit of hindsight. the "risk" is dependent fully on marrone's faith in the defense...which had held them to 3 and out in the three prior possessions, and had held them to a whole lot of nothing in all drives prior to that with the exception of the lone TD drive. now, add in the benefit of hindsight, and remove their TD drive to start the second half, that was pretty much the case all day. the dolphins moved the ball opportunistically, but not consistently, far from it. so in that respect, the risk was relatively low. i suppose, but i guess my point is giving a team acting opportunistically an opportunity is the risk. its possible im weighing it too heavily, but i was upset when he dropped back, not half time after the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 How many times did we fans torch Jauron for not even trying to score at the end of a half. Now we got a guy who tries to score and still no one is happy. If he scores or at least gets first downs, everyone is happy. I'll take Marrone ANY DAY over what we've had in the past. I like the aggression and I don't give a damn who's stadium we're playing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 How many times did we fans torch Jauron for not even trying to score at the end of a half. Now we got a guy who tries to score and still no one is happy. If he scores or at least gets first downs, everyone is happy. I'll take Marrone ANY DAY over what we've had in the past. I like the aggression and I don't give a damn who's stadium we're playing in. the issue is its a situational call - if you always push the pedal to the floor, or always walk away there you are doing it wrong. you have to make the call based on the players and the way the game is unfolding. a lot of terrible coaches are ALWAYS aggressive or ALWAYS conservative. its about picking your spots well and i just didnt think THAT was the spot. thats not a scathing indictment or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 A couple of things everyone conviently forgets - We all knew there was gonna be bumps in the road with a rookie HC....why do people keep forgetting that - We have played some pretty darn good teams on our schedule - We have been decimated by injury...guys are playing right now that really should be sat down to heal - We have been in EVERY game.....beat last years Super Bowl Champs....and just beat a division rival on the road He is doin ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 i suppose, but i guess my point is giving a team acting opportunistically an opportunity is the risk. its possible im weighing it too heavily, but i was upset when he dropped back, not half time after the score. but they weren't playing opportunistically up to that point. we can call them opportunistic in hind sight only because they scored to end the first half and start the second. they were "acting" terribly at that point in the game, as i said: three straight three and outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 being aggressive is one thing but when your up 17-7 in the 1st half on your own 20 yard line with a 4th string QB on the road against a great secondary, you run the ball hoping to get a first down. if you get a first down then you can start being aggressive. in my opinion theres a fine line of being aggressive and stupidity and I think he crossed it + 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 + 1 it's a shame you didn't keep reading this thread to know that AT THAT POINT in the game, there was virtually no reason to doubt the Bills defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) it's a shame you didn't keep reading this thread to know that AT THAT POINT in the game, there was virtually no reason to doubt the Bills defense. did you, for instance, think that we werent going to let them score again? it was about us weighing the odds of us being productive passing 3 times there vs the possibility of fumble, interception, or them have a shot at finding some gift points on offense if we gave it back. they also already had 2 60+ yard drives, so its not like there was NO reason to think they could move the ball. Edited October 21, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 did you, for instance, think that we werent going to let them score again? it was about us weighing the odds of us being productive passing 3 times there vs the possibility of fumble, interception, or them have a shot at finding some gift points on offense if we gave it back. they also already had 2 60+ yard drives, so its not like there was NO reason to think they could move the ball. right, with AWilliams pick, there were two strong drives for the dolphins. here were the other ones: two plays: pick six three plays: punt three plays: punt --PICK DRIVE-- --TD DRIVE-- three plays: punt three plays: punt three plays: punt so they had two "good" drives sandwiched between three and outs. how is it that you'd calculate the odds of them marching down the field without needing any time outs from this body of evidence? giving up a touchdown was worst case scenario. as a fan, you never hope that to be the case, and your expectations don't matter for diddly. as a coach: coaching expecting worst case scenario is coaching very very conservatively, especially when you consider the entirety of what miami had done TO THAT POINT. But to answer your question: i actually did expect them to have one more shot at it after we held them to three and out...again. i remember thinking: wow this going to be like four possessions inside of three minutes. this'll be the longest end to a half ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 right, with AWilliams pick, there were two strong drives for the dolphins. here were the other ones: two plays: pick six three plays: punt three plays: punt --PICK DRIVE-- --TD DRIVE-- three plays: punt three plays: punt three plays: punt so they had two "good" drives sandwiched between three and outs. how is it that you'd calculate the odds of them marching down the field without needing any time outs from this body of evidence? giving up a touchdown was worst case scenario. as a fan, you never hope that to be the case, and your expectations don't matter for diddly. as a coach: coaching expecting worst case scenario is coaching very very conservatively, especially when you consider the entirety of what miami had done TO THAT POINT. But to answer your question: i actually did expect them to have one more shot at it after we held them to three and out...again. i remember thinking: wow this going to be like four possessions inside of three minutes. this'll be the longest end to a half ever! but even if the bills defence was playing well why would you keep giving Miami's offence another opportunity? as shown it cost them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 but even if the bills defence was playing well why would you keep giving Miami's offence another opportunity? as shown it cost them ...because "the defence was playing well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 IMO, anyone worried about the coaching needs to get their head checked. I for one have had very little problem with the game management aspect, this team has been decimated by injuries at key positions throughout the year and I believe the game plans have given the Bills a chance to win this week. I think Marrone is going to be a really, really good one. How a group of people can complain about this coaching staff, when we've had such utter incompetence for the last decade-plus, is really beyond me. But, to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 ...because "the defence was playing well... how did that work out for them at the end of the half though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 And I hate that I have to shamlessly wave this flag again: but comparing this team to Jauron's because they were in games too is foolish. Why? Because the fact that Jauron's teams WERE in games was a testament his abilities as a coach. Yep. I said it then, and I'll say it again and again and again: Jauron's coaching was NOT the problem when he was in Buffalo. Are we forgetting about a roster awash with such talented players as John DiGorgio, Ko Simpson, Ashton Youboty, Anthony Cromwell, Ryan Denney, Chris Villarial, Robert Royal...JP LOSMAN!? I agree with the Big Cat. Given the talent on the team, the Bills produced. Maybe over-produced. With Bobby April handling Special Teams and Fewell helping DJ on Defense, we had a good coaching staff. What DJ was lacking was (1) an OC, and (2) players. While his it's-hard-to-win-in-the-NFL public persona seemed uninspiring, the players seemed to lay it on the field for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 did you, for instance, think that we werent going to let them score again? it was about us weighing the odds of us being productive passing 3 times there vs the possibility of fumble, interception, or them have a shot at finding some gift points on offense if we gave it back. they also already had 2 60+ yard drives, so its not like there was NO reason to think they could move the ball. At that point in the game, the Bills D had given up over 200 yards and large chunks. They ended up giving up nearly 300 yards by half time I believe. So, there are a whole lot of reasons to doubt the defense, which going into the game had been worked regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 how did that work out for them at the end of the half though? do you punch yourself in the face AFTER you see the winning lotto numbers? At that point in the game, the Bills D had given up over 200 yards and large chunks. They ended up giving up nearly 300 yards by half time I believe. So, there are a whole lot of reasons to doubt the defense, which going into the game had been worked regularly. Um...are you just making stuff up? I count 135 yards before that drive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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