Jabari Greer mmqb guest

[NoSaint]

 

 

This. I watched all the games. Greer was never any sort of Shutdown corner.he was slower but had a nose for the football. At that point in time McGee was by far the best db on the roster and one of the better DBs in the game. Aside from one Miami game when he was abused by Chris Chambers,he was the bills top db week in and out.

 

McGee was better at man coverage, a better athlete, bigger, stronger and faster. Greer was I guess a better I dunno saint?

 

Greer was a decent zone db who has BTW played only 1 full season as a starter. 1. That was for all the durability pundits out there. He warmed the bench in Buf because of his questionable run support, which McGee also did better.

 

Always love how the "ones that got away" are eulegized into these superstars, and "stats and production don't really exemplify how they played".... Right, ok should we go by what the market decided their play was worth, oh wait, I guess money lies too... Number of probowls, nope can't use that. I guess Greer has a ring, and was fortunate enough to play with two probowl safeties, and might have been roomies with the DB that basically won the game for the saints with a late pick six.

 

Oh well McGee was just much better.

Absurd.

 

You do realize Greer ran track in college? He's a 4.4 forty guy. Noticeably faster than mcgee. He's also well respected as having some of the better footwork in the league in man coverage. Go back and watch Greer battle TO in the Dallas game in 2007 - he was an emerging star even then. Check his scouts.com ranking as the #2 corner available behind dunta Robinson that year in free agency and 4 star rating. His 2009 play had him rated #2 by football outsiders (taken with a grain of salt) behind revis. I don't love rankings but I think it strongly refutes him just being some guy.

 

That corner across from him in New Orleans was also shortly there after demoted to coming off the bench. Roman harpers one of the worst coverage safeties around, though sharper was a fantastic safety in 2009...

 

McGee was also a very good corner. Is it that crazy to say both were very good players at the time?

 

It reads to me like everyone is overstating their case for McGee and Greer.

 

McGee was here for longer, 10 years to 5 years and McGee didn't have to fight to prove himself as much because he was a 4th rounder while Greer was undrafted.

 

That said, to me they were very close as players quality-wise though fairly different in style. McGee continued the tradition of good tackling Bills CBs (following Winfield and Clements) and was a very solid cover man. Greer was outstanding in coverage and as quick over 40 yards as just about any Bills DB I remember this side of Tony Greene. I would give Greer the nod as a cover man but McGee was the better tackler and of course he was an outstanding return man.

 

JMO.

 

Very fair assessment in my opinion. Both solid players.

Edited July 3, 2013 by NoSaint

[boyst]

Interesting and well-written.

 

As a side note: I'm not sure how long it will take me to get over the Bills' decision to pay Terrence McGee $7M/year and let Greer walk for $5.5M/year when he was clearly the superior player (even when both were healthy).

 

New Orleans got a steal; both as a player and person.

Agreed. After we had Winfield, Clements - all that money we didn't spend and let him walk on... I will never get it

[NoSaint]

Agreed. After we had Winfield, Clements - all that money we didn't spend and let him walk on... I will never get it

 

Atleast Clements cost a fortune. Greers contract seemed relatively fair- I was surprised it wasn't a notch higher honestly.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

Absurd.

 

You do realize Greer ran track in college? He's a 4.4 forty guy. Noticeably faster than mcgee. He's also well respected as having some of the better footwork in the league in man coverage. Go back and watch Greer battle TO in the Dallas game in 2007 - he was an emerging star even then. Check his scouts.com ranking as the #2 corner available behind dunta Robinson that year in free agency and 4 star rating. His 2009 play had him rated #2 by football outsiders (taken with a grain of salt) behind revis. I don't love rankings but I think it strongly refutes him just being some guy.

 

That corner across from him in New Orleans was also shortly there after demoted to coming off the bench. Roman harpers one of the worst coverage safeties around, though sharper was a fantastic safety in 2009...

 

McGee was also a very good corner. Is it that crazy to say both were very good players at the time?

 

 

 

Very fair assessment in my opinion. Both solid players.

 

I checked your website. It said Jabari Greer had a solid credit rating and the domain is for sale.

 

I'm ok saying JG was a decent DB, just scoff at the assertion he was better than the guy who topped him on the depth chart every year they competed for the same job and refute That anyone was claiming him the better of the two in 2008.

 

Either way McGees out now so Greers superior play should allow him to get those probowls, tackles, passes defended, starts, and passer rating against up to match career production. So lets see what happens.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I checked your website. It said Jabari Greer had a solid credit rating and the domain is for sale.

 

I'm ok saying JG was a decent DB, just scoff at the assertion he was better than the guy who topped him on the depth chart every year they competed for the same job and refute That anyone was claiming him the better of the two in 2008.

 

Either way McGees out now so Greers superior play should allow him to get those probowls, tackles, passes defended, starts, and passer rating against up to match career production. So lets see what happens.

 

Do we atleast agree that "slower than mcgee" was factually wrong?

 

Would you also say at a 25% premium in pay there's also atleast a discussion on who was better value, even if mcgee was the better cb?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Do we atleast agree that "slower than mcgee" was factually wrong?

 

Would you also say at a 25% premium in pay there's also atleast a discussion on who was better value, even if mcgee was the better cb?

 

In browsing around I saw snippets Greer wanted 7-8 mil from Bills so no on value. And I never saw Greer constantly out running 11 other guys trying to tackle him down the length of a football field.

 

Oh well, the decision makers have changed and Gilmore is more talented then either, so onward and upward.

[NoSaint]

 

 

In browsing around I saw snippets Greer wanted 7-8 mil from Bills so no on value. And I never saw Greer constantly out running 11 other guys trying to tackle him down the length of a football field.

 

Oh well, the decision makers have changed and Gilmore is more talented then either, so onward and upward.

 

Maybe you can google the NCAA track championships, since he didnt return kicks.

 

Agree on the end result though. We are far removed, so the argument matters little (none)

[thebandit27]

Please dig up that post mr fact checkers. Love to see how you thought Greer was a better player than McGee at the end of 2008. Laughable. As spiderweb says revisionists.

 

Everything I've stated about Greers PT in buf was accurate. started only one a full season ever, not in buf, took most of his tenure in buffalo to get off of the bench. Bills kept the better player.

 

It'll take me some time, but I'll find it if you're so inclined to question my honesty.

 

Please dig up that post mr fact checkers. Love to see how you thought Greer was a better player than McGee at the end of 2008. Laughable. As spiderweb says revisionists.

 

Everything I've stated about Greers PT in buf was accurate. started only one a full season ever, not in buf, took most of his tenure in buffalo to get off of the bench. Bills kept the better player.

 

Post #58 in this thread:

 

http://forums.twobil...40#entry1239865

 

Post #9 in this thread:

 

http://forums.twobil...s/#entry1622111

 

Don't ever call me a liar again.

 

EDIT: oh, and one more thing...the only subjective CB analysis I was able to find was this one done by PFF for CB play from 2008 to 2010. Go ahead and show me where McGee shows up on that list.

 

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/25/making-the-grade-cornerbacks-2008-2010/

 

Because I see Greer at No. 9...where's that McGee fella?

 

I checked your website. It said Jabari Greer had a solid credit rating and the domain is for sale.

 

I'm ok saying JG was a decent DB, just scoff at the assertion he was better than the guy who topped him on the depth chart every year they competed for the same job and refute That anyone was claiming him the better of the two in 2008.

 

Either way McGees out now so Greers superior play should allow him to get those probowls, tackles, passes defended, starts, and passer rating against up to match career production. So lets see what happens.

 

Click above links...proceed to publicly admit wrongfulness.

Edited July 3, 2013 by thebandit27

[Willyville Guy]

if i had to choose mcgee at 7 or greer at 5.5, id choose greer easily ....

 

NoSaint is cheap.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

It'll take me some time, but I'll find it if you're so inclined to question my honesty.

 

 

 

Post #58 in this thread:

 

http://forums.twobil...40#entry1239865

 

Post #9 in this thread:

 

http://forums.twobil...s/#entry1622111

 

Don't ever call me a liar again.

 

EDIT: oh, and one more thing...the only subjective CB analysis I was able to find was this one done by PFF for CB play from 2008 to 2010. Go ahead and show me where McGee shows up on that list.

 

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/25/making-the-grade-cornerbacks-2008-2010/

 

Because I see Greer at No. 9...where's that McGee fella?

 

 

 

Click above links...proceed to publicly admit wrongfulness.

 

You got me, I offer the following revision:

 

and refute That anyone "who, watches the games, has a clue about the sport, is unrelated to Jabari, doesn't just spew contrarian- they're all wrong and I'm right bs about front offices, coaching staffs and GMs, general non-trolls"was claiming him the better of the two in 2008.

 

(I see by your linked post you are the contrarian, which I enjoyed reading btw...) I think the roster run down frames your Perspective quite nicely.

 

Thanks for that 08-10 PFT evaluation. That would have been a nice find in 2008.

 

Bottom line:

 

McGee was a better player and has had a better career with better production. He also did this surrounded by inferior talent than in the two year reference window when Greer was surrounded by probowlers. The depth chart in buffalo for 4 years confirms this and that is objective and comparable as it is going to get.

 

You can argue intangibles, hyperbole, or hyper focus in isolation on a smaller time segment where one team had huge success and was loaded with stars, vs an era of dismal failure with a talent-less roster ignoring the list of individual accomplishments and stats. But then you're really arguing at that point with reality, tough...

 

Thanks! Enjoyed it. Please provide the contrarian update for 2013... I'd Love to hear it.

 

[thebandit27]

 

 

You got me, I offer the following revision:

 

and refute That anyone "who, watches the games, has a clue about the sport, is unrelated to Jabari, doesn't just spew contrarian- they're all wrong and I'm right bs about front offices, coaching staffs and GMs, general non-trolls"was claiming him the better of the two in 2008.

 

(I see by your linked post you are the contrarian, which I enjoyed reading btw...) I think the roster run down frames your Perspective quite nicely.

 

Thanks for that 08-10 PFT evaluation. That would have been a nice find in 2008.

 

Bottom line:

 

McGee was a better player and has had a better career with better production. He also did this surrounded by inferior talent than in the two year reference window when Greer was surrounded by probowlers. The depth chart in buffalo for 4 years confirms this and that is objective and comparable as it is going to get.

 

You can argue intangibles, hyperbole, or hyper focus in isolation on a smaller time segment where one team had huge success and was loaded with stars, vs an era of dismal failure with a talent-less roster ignoring the list of individual accomplishments and stats. But then you're really arguing at that point with reality, tough...

 

Thanks! Enjoyed it. Please provide the contrarian update for 2013... I'd Love to hear it.

 

Nothing better than defiance in the face of being proven wrong, both about the statement itself and the sentiment I expressed.

 

Hope you realize how foolish you appear now.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Nothing better than defiance in the face of being proven wrong, both about the statement itself and the sentiment I expressed.

 

Hope you realize how foolish you appear now.

 

Foolish? Oh the contrarian thing again. Nice touch.

[thebandit27]

 

 

Foolish? Oh the contrarian thing again. Nice touch.

 

Oh yes, it must be that.

 

It certainly couldn't be that you claimed that my view was revisionist and accused me of lying about it, and were subsequently proven wrong.

 

Nor could it be that you challenged me regarding who was the better player, when all measurables since 2008 would indicate that it's Greer, and then promptly ignored the data presented.

 

Maybe next time you should refrain from shooting your mouth off about what other people's opinions were 5 year ago, or in the very least show some contrition when you're proven wrong.

 

What a joke...I think we're done here.

 

To the OP, sort for getting off track here. Great guy and great CB.

Edited July 3, 2013 by thebandit27

[NoSaint]

 

To the OP, sort for getting off track here. Great guy and great CB.

 

yea, thread de-railed, but i generally expect that when mentioning former players.

 

its a shame he didnt play longer as a bill but ive gotten to enjoy watching him play for the saints. easy to cheer for him on and off the field.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

NoSaint is cheap.

 

Git 'er done!

 

(Pavlovian response, sorry)

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Oh yes, it must be that.

 

It certainly couldn't be that you claimed that my view was revisionist and accused me of lying about it, and were subsequently proven wrong.

 

Nor could it be that you challenged me regarding who was the better player, when all measurables since 2008 would indicate that it's Greer, and then promptly ignored the data presented.

 

Maybe next time you should refrain from shooting your mouth off about what other people's opinions were 5 year ago, or in the very least show some contrition when you're proven wrong.

 

What a joke...I think we're done here.

 

To the OP, sort for getting off track here. Great guy and great CB.

 

Yup joke. Revisionist contrarian strikes again. Now only a better player since '08... Nice. Foolish is right.

 

Again McGee had a better career and was a better player when decisions were made. Indisputable. More ints, more tackles more money, more passes defended, more probowls and was a playmaker on multiple units.

 

Greer was a great story and went on to be a solid role player in an amazing defense with incredible talent around him.

 

Edit: glad ur done. Please don't revise that.

Edited July 3, 2013 by over 20 years of fanhood

[NoSaint]

 

 

Yup joke. Revisionist contrarian strikes again. Now only a better player since '08... Nice. Foolish is right.

 

Again McGee had a better career and was a better player when decisions were made. Indisputable. More ints, more tackles more money, more passes defended, more probowls and was a playmaker on multiple units.

 

Greer was a great story and went on to be a solid role player in an amazing defense with incredible talent around him.

 

Edit: glad ur done. Please don't revise that.

 

Minus him being the number 1 corner, and one of the best players on that defense, and mcgee no longer being a special teamer by then... Well... Who am I kidding, it's a bit like talking to a wall at this point.

 

 

 

Git 'er done!

 

(Pavlovian response, sorry)

 

Ill try not to sink to your level.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Minus him being the number 1 corner, and one of the best players on that defense, and mcgee no longer being a special teamer by then... Well... Who am I kidding, it's a bit like talking to a wall at this point.

 

 

 

Ill try not to sink to your level.

 

More evidence of poor credibility. "Done here" then grasping at more straws, more caveats to justify a contrarian view unsupported by all statistical measures. Are you done yet?

 

 

[NoSaint]

 

 

More evidence of poor credibility. "Done here" then grasping at more straws, more caveats to justify a contrarian view unsupported by all statistical measures. Are you done yet?

 

Apparently you missed that bandit and I are two different people. It's ok, it really does seem pointless to continue anyway. You can live in your reality and we can live in ours and no ones harming anyone else.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Apparently you missed that bandit and I are two different people. It's ok, it really does seem pointless to continue anyway. You can live in your reality and we can live in ours and no ones harming anyone else.

 

I did miss that, I didn't think there were actually two on this message board that thought Greer has had a better career than McGee and faulted the org for essentially "choosing" the clearly better player of the two at that point in time. And you are certainly right about parallel realities. I choose the one driven by collective stats, contract awards, depth chart decisions.

 

I believe in the market, and the market tells the story.