Mike32282 Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 As a Yankees fan, Id MUCH rater sign Beltran and have him as the CF for 7-8 years then a 41 yr old P who wont be here long, just my opinion. 200187[/snapback] Don't get me wrong. I wanted Beltran badly and would have loved to see him wearing pinstripes...but they needed a left handed solid pitcher like Randy Johnson more. If only they could have dumped Giambi's contract...then they might have gone after Beltran. *sigh* Oh well...we'll have to see who they sign next year or the year after to replace Bernie in CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 If you think Kirby Puckett should automatically be there and you think that line is laughable, then the joke is on you too. 200120[/snapback] Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I don't think Puckett is an "automatic" HOFer. On the other hand, he DOES have two World Series rings that the Twins wouldn't even have sniffed if it weren't for him. Do I think Puckett deserves it before Mattingly? Of course. And anyone not blinded by the pinstripes would agree. I also think that, strictly based on production, Keith Hernandez is a HOFer way before Mattingly. He didn't have the power that Mattingly displayed for about five or six years, but he established the defensive benchmark for that position, won an MVP, and, oh yes, won two World Series rings. He has only himself to blame for the fact he was done by age 35, and I really don't think he's a HOFer, but again, he gets in way before Mattingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I don't think Puckett is an "automatic" HOFer. On the other hand, he DOES have two World Series rings that the Twins wouldn't even have sniffed if it weren't for him. Do I think Puckett deserves it before Mattingly? Of course. And anyone not blinded by the pinstripes would agree. I also think that, strictly based on production, Keith Hernandez is a HOFer way before Mattingly. He didn't have the power that Mattingly displayed for about five or six years, but he established the defensive benchmark for that position, won an MVP, and, oh yes, won two World Series rings. He has only himself to blame for the fact he was done by age 35, and I really don't think he's a HOFer, but again, he gets in way before Mattingly. 200229[/snapback] Not according to the HOF Monitor at BB Reference. Oh, they must be Pinstripe biased too. They have Mattingly at 92nd all time and Hernandez at 181. Carry on. The Numbers Don't Lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastside Oasis Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 The fact of the matter is Beltran is the premier 5 tool player in the game today and he's only 27. He's the first player in MLB history to have 4 straight seasons of 100 runs, 100 rbi, 20 hr, and 30 sb. I will compare him to Jeter if you Yankees fans want, but I'm sure you won't want to. And Jeter makes more money and is older. And yes, Jeter has won rings, but it wasn't Beltran's fault he's been in KC all these years. Put Jeter in KC and see how many rings he wins Beltran certainly did all he could for Houston in his 1st (yes 1st) postseason. Houston wouldn't even have sniffed the WS without him. To pay alot for that type of player does not bother me in the least, especially considering many players who don't have all the 5 tools are paid more (Giambi, Jeter, Ramirez, Sosa, etc) . This is a great signing for the Mets and considering they probably aren't done, will propel them to a great season now that they have a GM that knows what he's doing. Remember, he's the same GM who fleeced the Yankees for Javier Vazquez.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I will compare him to Jeter if you Yankees fans want, but I'm sure you won't want to. And Jeter makes more money and is older. This posts crack me up, keep em coming!!!! Go ahead, compare a SS to a CF, people do that all the time, I see the connection!!! Jeter is older yes and makes more $, but why do you FEEL the need to exploit a Yankee to make a point about Beltran?!? Beltran is a GREAT player, and a GREAT pickup, I applaud the Mets, great signing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastside Oasis Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 This posts crack me up, keep em coming!!!! Go ahead, compare a SS to a CF, people do that all the time, I see the connection!!! Jeter is older yes and makes more $, but why do you FEEL the need to exploit a Yankee to make a point about Beltran?!? Beltran is a GREAT player, and a GREAT pickup, I applaud the Mets, great signing! 200330[/snapback] Many other Yankees fans are saying he's overpaid. I was just proving he's not in comparison to the market that has been set. You have said all along that he is an excellent player, so it's not directed at you. I am pointing out to the other Yankees fans that obviously don't pay attention to other players that there are good ones outside of the Bronx. If you don't like the Jeter comparison, we can always compare him to Bernie Williams. P.S. I am comparing stats, not position anyhow, so I don't see why a SS and CF can't be compared. There are great players at every position nowadays so the comparisons hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elcrusho Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Anyone who makes more money than me is overpaid... I wish I could play baseball for $32,000 a year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Anyone who makes more money than me is overpaid... I wish I could play baseball for $32,000 a year.... 200389[/snapback] You probably don't. The demands on your time and lack of privacy would grate pretty bad for such a paltry sum. I understand the sentiment, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBillsFan Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Many other Yankees fans are saying he's overpaid. I was just proving he's not in comparison to the market that has been set. You have said all along that he is an excellent player, so it's not directed at you. I am pointing out to the other Yankees fans that obviously don't pay attention to other players that there are good ones outside of the Bronx. If you don't like the Jeter comparison, we can always compare him to Bernie Williams. P.S. I am comparing stats, not position anyhow, so I don't see why a SS and CF can't be compared. There are great players at every position nowadays so the comparisons hold up. 200349[/snapback] Compare all you want but Jeter is worth every penny he's paid. This man has ALL the intangibles you need in a super star. He's playing the most important position on the field defensively and has handled all the pressure with ease. He's the perfect role model for class, sportsmanship, and ability and someone that anybody could see is a great ambassador of baseball. He always plays hard, always hustles and always works to improve himself. He has a knack to be in the right place at the right time and always make the key play. There is a ton more to being a great player than numbers alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I don't think Puckett is an "automatic" HOFer. On the other hand, he DOES have two World Series rings that the Twins wouldn't even have sniffed if it weren't for him. Do I think Puckett deserves it before Mattingly? Of course. And anyone not blinded by the pinstripes would agree. I also think that, strictly based on production, Keith Hernandez is a HOFer way before Mattingly. He didn't have the power that Mattingly displayed for about five or six years, but he established the defensive benchmark for that position, won an MVP, and, oh yes, won two World Series rings. He has only himself to blame for the fact he was done by age 35, and I really don't think he's a HOFer, but again, he gets in way before Mattingly. 200229[/snapback] Hernandez was a very good player, and while I'm a bit biased toward Mattingly since he came up when I was still somewhat a fan of baseball and the Yanks, Mattingly played the last 6-7 with a back that most of us would never have been able to play with. I read where he actually a had a 3 hour stretching ritual he had to go through just to play. Hadn't he suffered from a bad back, he would have been great and a hands down HOF'er. Yet due to his final numbers, I'd have to say he is a marginal HOF candidate at best. Hernandez had longevity and consistency that Mattingly and his back did not. But had Mattingly been healthy, there would have been no comparison, none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Anyone who makes more money than me is overpaid... I wish I could play baseball for $32,000 a year.... 200389[/snapback] I'm with ya!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBillsFan Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I'm with ya!!! 200442[/snapback] BF I have to ask. You're avatars aren't hero's of yours are they? I mean, that's your choice but Unger was a Coke addict that died because of his penchant for drugs. You're previous one was of a man nicknamed "dimebag". "Hi, my name is BF and I love drug addicts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Hernandez was a very good player, and while I'm a bit biased toward Mattingly since he came up when I was still somewhat a fan of baseball and the Yanks, Mattingly played the last 6-7 with a back that most of us would never have been able to play with. I read where he actually a had a 3 hour stretching ritual he had to go through just to play. Hadn't he suffered from a bad back, he would have been great and a hands down HOF'er. Yet due to his final numbers, I'd have to say he is a marginal HOF candidate at best. Hernandez had longevity and consistency that Mattingly and his back did not. But had Mattingly been healthy, there would have been no comparison, none at all. 200439[/snapback] I think that if Hernandez hadn't snorted and smoked his way into an early retirement, he would have easily reached 3,000 hits and won about fifteen consecutive Gold Gloves. That's not an argument for him to get into the Hall though. My argument for him rests on his defense. Nobody played first base like Keith Hernandez. Nobody since him has played it like him either. Mattingly was an outstanding defensive first baseman, but Hernandez was simply nonpareil. He was to first basemen what Ozzie Smith was to shortstops. Offensively, he was the quintessential #3 hitter. Let's not forget that unlike Mattingly, Hernandez played just about his entire career before home runs started to explode in 1987, and he was a lefthanded hitter without the short porch Mattingly enjoyed. Hernandez was a clutch hitter, too, and I'm not talking about the GWRBI stat in which he usually led the league before it was mercifully shitcanned. I'm talking about the fact that he was ALWAYS the guy you wanted at the plate with runners on in a tight spot -- and the fact that he usually seemed to save a good portion of his 15-18 home runs -- and a hell of a lot of doubles -- for spots like those. He has nobody but himself to blame for the fact he's not in the Hall. He let his body go to hell and he was just done at an age where guys today seem to be almost just getting started. But if you talk about a healthy Keith Hernandez and a healthy Don Mattingly for 20 years, well, I hardly think the discussion would be "not even close." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 BF I have to ask. You're avatars aren't hero's of yours are they? I mean, that's your choice but Unger was a Coke addict that died because of his penchant for drugs. You're previous one was of a man nicknamed "dimebag". "Hi, my name is BF and I love drug addicts." 200460[/snapback] Yes Stu Ungar died because of drugs. Thank you for the history lesson. I don't believe I would call Stu Ungar a hero by any means. Under my avatar it says "The Greatest". Stu Ungar is in fact the greatest no limit Texas Hold 'Em player ever. And yes I had an avatar featuring Dimebag Darrell Abbott who was one of my favorite guitar players and was gunned down on stage durring a concert last month. I was showing respect to one of my favorite musicians who was taken far too soon. If you would like to read what I think about Stu Ungar go check out my blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Hernandez was a very good player, and while I'm a bit biased toward Mattingly since he came up when I was still somewhat a fan of baseball and the Yanks, Mattingly played the last 6-7 with a back that most of us would never have been able to play with. I read where he actually a had a 3 hour stretching ritual he had to go through just to play. Hadn't he suffered from a bad back, he would have been great and a hands down HOF'er. Yet due to his final numbers, I'd have to say he is a marginal HOF candidate at best. Hernandez had longevity and consistency that Mattingly and his back did not. But had Mattingly been healthy, there would have been no comparison, none at all. 200439[/snapback] I disagree. They were remarkably similiar players with the only real exception being Mattingly almost NEVER struck out and rarely walked (Hernandez did more of both). He was one of the best contact hitters in baseball history. Defensively, the roll call of players that are/were their equals is VERY short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBillsFan Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Yes Stu Ungar died because of drugs. Thank you for the history lesson. I don't believe I would call Stu Ungar a hero by any means. Under my avatar it says "The Greatest". Stu Ungar is in fact the greatest no limit Texas Hold 'Em player ever. And yes I had an avatar featuring Dimebag Darrell Abbott who was one of my favorite guitar players and was gunned down on stage durring a concert last month. I was showing respect to one of my favorite musicians who was taken far too soon. If you would like to read what I think about Stu Ungar go check out my blog. 200487[/snapback] Just giving you sh--. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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