A Question on certain positions

[KeisterHollow]

When I look at the prospects coming out in the draft this year, and especially when I hear the network analysts talking about certain guys, a question comes to me. There are some tackles coming out that played pretty good in college, but when they're evaluated they are said to be likely to go to Guard in the NFL. Usually it's because they don't possess enough speed, or they don't have long enough arms.

 

Also, you hear about college DE's who are projected to be OLB'ers in the NFL because they're too small. That makes sense enough to me.

 

My question focuses on two positions, but any responses are welcome. Are the guys playing Tackle in college playing that position because its the best position for their frame, or because they're the best, most talented guy on the roster that fits that body type? I'm wondering if a guy - Kyle Long from Oregon fits this question good - who played Tackle successfully would automatically be a better Guard? Does being a good Tackle qualify you, or mean you're capable of being an even better Guard? I ask because if this is the case, perhaps Buffalo can fix their Guard positon by going after a college tackle who was good in college, but might not be prototypical in size, and therefor could slip to the mid-rounds?

 

An even more pertinent position for this question, in regards to this draft and the Bills, is the difference between OLB and ILB. There are so many exciting prospects in this draft at the OLB position, but there aren't near as many at the ILB position. When I look at these prospects measurables, something keeps popping out at me. Many of the mid-round prospects - Trevardo Williams, an OLB from Connecticut, measuring at 6' 1'' tall, 240lbs, and runs a 4.57 forty, is ranked 12th on Walterfootball for OLB'ers - have better measurables than the top ILB'er prospects! Compare Trevardo with Alec Ogletree, who is 6' 3'', 236 lbs, and runs a 4.7 forty. Wouldn't these OLB'ers who weigh in about the same, but who are generally faster, be even better suited for ILB? It just seems like a no-brainer to take the later round guys who might be better suited, and likely drafted higher, at another position.

Edited April 10, 2013 by KeisterHollow

[Green Lightning]

As for the tackle/guard quesiton, Buddy is on record as saying he rather draft tackles and move them inside if they don't pan out. ILB's and OLB's have very different roles and are not really interchangeable. Depending on where in this hybrid defense they are playing, each could be called upon to have rush skills, run support or coverage skills. One size doesn't fit all.

[NoSaint]

As for the tackle/guard quesiton, Buddy is on record as saying he rather draft tackles and move them inside if they don't pan out. ILB's and OLB's have very different roles and are not really interchangeable. Depending on where in this hybrid defense they are playing, each could be called upon to have rush skills, run support or coverage skills. One size doesn't fit all.

 

the tackle to guard issue is commonly addressed this way. marrone has some of it in his coaching past with both carl nicks and jahri evans being midround tackles that were elite guards for the saints (and now TB, in nicks case)

 

any of the skills that got you the chance outside in college, even if not good enough for the pros, translate into great assets for a pro guard.

Edited April 10, 2013 by NoSaint

[Joe Miner]

I only read the title, but if you're asking this question on the internet, I'd stick with missionary for now.

[Tommy]

I only read the title, but if you're asking this question on the internet, I'd stick with missionary for now.

 

[Green Lightning]

the tackle to guard issue is commonly addressed this way. marrone has some of it in his coaching past with both carl nicks and jahri evans being midround tackles that were elite guards for the saints (and now TB, in nicks case)

 

 

That's right. Good catch. All in all I have been very comfortable with the moves made on the OL because of Marrone's experience.

[NoSaint]

 

 

That's right. Good catch. All in all I have been very comfortable with the moves made on the OL because of Marrone's experience.

 

my only concern is that instead of investing in his strength, he could figure he can outcoach the other team despite deficiencies (ala the feeling many had with chan regarding fitz and the offense in general)

[Green Lightning]

my only concern is that instead of investing in his strength, he could figure he can outcoach the other team despite deficiencies (ala the feeling many had with chan regarding fitz and the offense in general)

 

You may be right but i hope that's not the case. I'm figuring he has a certain type of player in mind and will plug the position accordingly.

[NoSaint]

 

 

You may be right but i hope that's not the case. I'm figuring he has a certain type of player in mind and will plug the position accordingly.

 

i have no reason to really believe that, just that it happens occasionally. we havent seen one way or the other yet. sometimes guys neglect their strengths the worst, sometimes they invest heavily in them to make those strengths carry the team. We will see which he is. for now i just kind of try to leave comments like that balanced by mentioning the flip side

[boyst]

[music]Here I am to save the day![/music]

 

Basic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linebacker

43

The outside linebacker's job is to cover the end to make sure a run doesn't escape, and to watch the pass and protect from it. The middle linebacker's job is to stop runs between the tackles and watch the entire field to see the play develop.

34

Generally, the primary responsibilities for both outside linebackers are to stop the run and rush the quarterback in passing situations, in which they line in front of the tackles like true defensive ends. The outside linebackers in a 3-4 defense are players who are very skilled are rushing the quarterback and they would be playing defensive end in a 4-3 defense. When it comes to the inside linebackers, one is generally a run stuffing player who is better able to handle offensive linemen and stop running backs when the offense features a running play, while the other is often a smaller, faster player who excels in pass coverage. However, the smaller or cover LB should also be able to scrape and plug running lanes decently.

 

 

Inside LB's, Mike's, are the hardest position to find. Many teams went to the 43 originally to put two big guys in front of their average, at best, MLB's. Other teams went to a 34 and got him some help inside. Remember 2010? Sorry, I had to bring it up. In 2010 we had KWilliams at NT - a position he could not play but did well at because the scheme was just f'd up. KWilliams was a rushing NT which totally exposed our weak MLB's. Ray Lewis would have been raped and had 5 kids playing in that defense. Poz, though good, could not do it alone. Even with whoever we tried to throw in there to help him inside could not do anything and that is why we saw Whitner lighting up ball carriers 8 or 9 yards deep.

 

So, for a 34 MLB to make it in this league he is going to have to fight through traffic that outweighs him by 50-60 lbs, on average (OL), and determine the appropriate reaction at full go. Not many rookies come in with a high enough level of comprehension to do this and the adjustment to pro speed is incredibly underappreciated.

 

In the 43, if you do not have a big gelatinous mess of DT's in front of your Mike you are going to get punished. Think of the layout, the 43. The OLB's have to stay home and maintain the outside for the sweep. So, that leaves, sometimes, 3 gaps for the MLB to cover. If your DT's are head over the G or just slightly outside then you have a whole heap of OC coming right at you. Mix in a FB and you need a tremendous MLB.

 

If you have specific questions or want far far more detail, ask.

[KeisterHollow]

Thanks for the feedback! Still, I don't see why an OLB, who has timed speed faster than that of most ILB'ers, and who has to tackle RB's on the outside, stay with TE's, couldn't drop into coverage in the middle, and plug holes between tackles. After all, they're generally bigger than the MLB/ILB'ers, aren't they? It's something I'd try, at least with the OLB'ers weighing in at 250 lb range. Maybe a guy like Ansah or Jordan, who both are very tall and rangy in body type, would have a hard time getting the leverage between the tackles, but a shorter OLB prospect, somewhere in the 6' 1'' - 6' 2'' range, should be okay with that. Just my take, but I'd give some later round OLB'ers with speed a shot at the middle.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Still, I don't see why an OLB, who has timed speed faster than that of most ILB'ers, and who has to tackle RB's on the outside, stay with TE's, couldn't drop into coverage in the middle, and plug holes between tackles. After all, they're generally bigger than the MLB/ILB'ers, aren't they? It's something I'd try, at least with the OLB'ers weighing in at 250 lb range. Maybe a guy like Ansah or Jordan, who both are very tall and rangy in body type, would have a hard time getting the leverage between the tackles, but a shorter OLB prospect, somewhere in the 6' 1'' - 6' 2'' range, should be okay with that. Just my take, but I'd give some later round OLB'ers with speed a shot at the middle.

 

I don't know why this doesn't happen more often either although I'd guess it's because when you have players with this level of athleticism that it seems natural to put them on the outside where they can attack the edges.

 

However Cornelius Bennett was a good ILB when given the chance to play there and I thought that Matthias Kiwanuka looked very good at ILB when the Giants were forced to play him there due to injuries.

 

Really what is Urlacher? A fast, rangy, long defender who played safety in college.

 

I think the type of athlete you describe can excel on the inside but the NFL coaches tend to put those guys on the outside.