Our Society is soooo F'd Up

[BringBackFergy]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/27/us/colorado-transgender-girl-school/index.html

 

 

Little boy, age 5, born with male sex organs...as a Kindergarten student "suddenly realizes he is a girl inside"...not sure how a kid who can barely use the toilet or tie his own shoes has this revelation that he is actually more comfortable as a girl. Anyone think Mom and Dad had some type of influence on this child's behavior?

 

Will this "boy" be bullied? Yes

Will the parents sue to have Obamacare pay for a genital reassignment in the next three years?? You betcha

 

*shaking my head* Craziness. I feel bad for my three kids and what they will have to witness when they are adults.

[Maury Ballstein]

agree........PC nonsense.............and uber pro gay/transgender sentiment seems to be a little much

 

wacky stuff.

[DrDawkinstein]

Transgender is not equivalent to gay. Actually quite the opposite.

 

Gender Identity Dysphoria is a real thing, and has been observed in children this young. Waaaay, waaaay different than a child saying they are gay.

 

edit: To elaborate, Id say the recognition in this mental/physical disorder shows how far our society has come, not fallen. Years ago, the kid would have been forced to live a painful, emotionally and psychologically tormented life. Decades or Centuries ago, they may have even been killed. The fact that we know this is a real disorder and can help that person in a number of ways, is a pretty good step for humanity.

Edited March 1, 2013 by DrDareustein

[BringBackFergy]

Transgender is not equivalent to gay. Actually quite the opposite.

 

Gender Identity Dysphoria is a real thing, and has been observed in children this young. Waaaay, waaaay different than a child saying they are gay.

 

Not gay...my only concern is that the parents may have influenced this behavior. At the early onset of this child's questioning (which may have been an innocent question about "why do I have a penis and not a hoo haa?") the parents may have gone into full "I have a female child" mode.

 

The lawsuit at this time is unnecessary. Help the kid along but don't make a spectacle of Him...or her.

[KD in CA]

Transgender is not equivalent to gay. Actually quite the opposite.

 

Gender Identity Dysphoria is a real thing, and has been observed in children this young. Waaaay, waaaay different than a child saying they are gay.

 

edit: To elaborate, Id say the recognition in this mental/physical disorder shows how far our society has come, not fallen. Years ago, the kid would have been forced to live a painful, emotionally and psychologically tormented life. Decades or Centuries ago, they may have even been killed. The fact that we know this is a real disorder and can help that person in a number of ways, is a pretty good step for humanity.

Bullsh--. Little kids pretend. Sometimes they pretend to be a monkey or a tree or a different gender. It's how they explore the world. It's only an issue when you add idiot parents to the equation who give the kid a girl's haircut and tell him that he can really be a girl instead of simply saying "no, you're a boy and you use this bathroom".

 

 

Not gay...my only concern is that the parents may have influenced this behavior. At the early onset of this child's questioning (which may have been an innocent question about "why do I have a penis and not a hoo haa?") the parents may have gone into full "I have a female child" mode.

 

The lawsuit at this time is unnecessary. Help the kid along but don't make a spectacle of Him...or her.

Bingo. "We really wanted a little girl" is the root cause of this nuttiness.

[Maury Ballstein]

not saying gay/transgender is the same..............just seems like with child psychiatrists and all these new symptoms/phobias............a lot of this stuff seems like BS.

 

i do support the gay/transgender community and have no issues with how people live their lives..........it just seems like everything is so pro-gay/alternative lifestyle that some are being pushed towards it to a degree that are just confused young ones.

[DrDawkinstein]

Not gay...my only concern is that the parents may have influenced this behavior. At the early onset of this child's questioning (which may have been an innocent question about "why do I have a penis and not a hoo haa?") the parents may have gone into full "I have a female child" mode.

Bullsh--. Little kids pretend. Sometimes they pretend to be a monkey or a tree or a different gender. It's how they explore the world. It's only an issue when you add idiot parents to the equation who give the kid a girl's haircut and tell him that he can really be a girl instead of simply saying "no, you're a boy and you use this bathroom".

 

Bingo. "We really wanted a little girl" is the root cause of this nuttiness.

 

Rarely, in any case of GID, has it been proven that the parents were the cause. The attitude expressed in these two quoted posts is exactly the kind that helps perpetuate intolerance and even violence towards these people. "Must just be environment. Wacky parents made this kid a nutjob. No need to take them seriously, just scoff at them."

 

You are assuming a WHOLE LOT in how the parents handled their child, and/or how the child has expressed their issues.

 

This is how people with this disorder end up living a tormented life. It's the equivalent of a child telling you they are depressed, and ignoring it. You are letting a real, physical problem eat away at the child due to you not understanding the issue.

 

Im not even acknowledging the lawsuit part of this story because that is the real issue with our society. But it's an entirely different conversation.

 

You say: "I feel bad for my three kids and what they will have to witness when they are adults."

 

What they'll hopefully witness is a society full of tolerance and acceptance, and not ridicule and doubt. I dont see how that is a bad thing, and would hope that is exactly what you are teaching them.

[DANCOCK]

Sounds like a lot of you guys were influenced to be douche bags by your parents.

[DrDawkinstein]

Sounds like a lot of you guys were influenced to be douche bags by your parents.

 

Boom! Exactly.

 

Worry less about what these parents are having to go through, and more about raising your children to not be afraid of things/people that are different than them.

[BringBackFergy]

Bullsh--. Little kids pretend. Sometimes they pretend to be a monkey or a tree or a different gender. It's how they explore the world. It's only an issue when you add idiot parents to the equation who give the kid a girl's haircut and tell him that he can really be a girl instead of simply saying "no, you're a boy and you use this bathroom".

 

 

 

Bingo. "We really wanted a little girl" is the root cause of this nuttiness.

 

I can't help but think as vigilant as the parents are to bring a lawsuit to force the school to allow their boy to use the girl's bathroom, they are equally capable of forcing a doctor to reassign this child's sex organs at the age of 10, 11, 12 or even sooner. This may be a matter of first impression, but common sense dictates that parents should let nature takes its course until the child is an adult...at which time the child can decide if they want to reassign with their own money. We'll see what happens in the future. I feel bad for the child and am not a bigot...just frustrated with the types of cases taking up court space and we can't even say "Merry Christmas" anymore without offending some.

 

If you search google you will find another crazy case where an inmate at a state prison (in Connecticut I believe) sued the state for gender reassignment and WON...

[Maury Ballstein]

Sounds like a lot of you guys were influenced to be douche bags by your parents.

 

is this the part where the alternative lifestylers rage against the machine?

 

open forum, the douchebag comments aren't needed.

[DrDawkinstein]

is this the part where the alternative lifestylers rage against the machine?

 

open forum, the douchebag comments aren't needed.

 

agreed that "doughebags" was harsh, but the point stands if we are talking about parental influence.

[RkFast]

Boom! Exactly.

 

Worry less about what these parents are having to go through, and more about raising your children to not be afraid of things/people that are different than them.

 

When I, as a taxpayer, have to pay to accommodate these folks and situations, then it IS my worry. Lawsuits on the state and local level, and then later, surgery paid for on a Federal level. Yeah...Im kicking in to that every step of the way. So it IS my right to stand up to this "rights group" and express my opinion on the subject. We have skin in the game, no pun intended. So we have a say in the matter.

 

And on that note, what a shame that this POS group of people, who are supposed to be advocates, are using this child and family as a pawn. Absolutely disgusting.

Edited March 1, 2013 by RkFast

[DrDawkinstein]

http://www.cnn.com/2...hool/index.html

 

 

Little boy, age 5, born with male sex organs...as a Kindergarten student "suddenly realizes he is a girl inside"...not sure how a kid who can barely use the toilet or tie his own shoes has this revelation that he is actually more comfortable as a girl. Anyone think Mom and Dad had some type of influence on this child's behavior?

 

Going back through the article, where did you pull this idea and quote? The article clearly and explicitly states: "Coy was born with male sex organs but has identified as female since she could express herself, her mother said."

 

And that is usually the case in GID. From the moment the child can express itself, it shows signs and even talks directly about it.

 

Guess what?

 

When I, as a taxpayer, have to pay to accommodate these folks, then it IS my worry.

 

This ought to be rich. What are you paying for exactly?

[BringBackFergy]

Rarely, in any case of GID, has it been proven that the parents were the cause. The attitude expressed in these two quoted posts is exactly the kind that helps perpetuate intolerance and even violence towards these people. "Must just be environment. Wacky parents made this kid a nutjob. No need to take them seriously, just scoff at them."

 

You are assuming a WHOLE LOT in how the parents handled their child, and/or how the child has expressed their issues.

 

This is how people with this disorder end up living a tormented life. It's the equivalent of a child telling you they are depressed, and ignoring it. You are letting a real, physical problem eat away at the child due to you not understanding the issue.

 

Im not even acknowledging the lawsuit part of this story because that is the real issue with our society. But it's an entirely different conversation.

 

You say: "I feel bad for my three kids and what they will have to witness when they are adults."

 

What they'll hopefully witness is a society full of tolerance and acceptance, and not ridicule and doubt. I dont see how that is a bad thing, and would hope that is exactly what you are teaching them.

I value your opinion and apparently you are a professional in this field. You are obviously knowledgeable and demonstrate a good grasp of the issue (unlike me). However, to call me a douche because I feel the way I do or imply that I am a neanderthal for wanting my son and two daughters to live "sexually unconfused" lives is suspect. Do you really want to hear what I think or only parts? Do you wish to force your opinion on others or consider the other side?

 

The fact that my son and daughter have been bullied in school does not create an immediate cause of action in my mind to sue the school. I sit down with my kids and talk to them. We have dinner together every night at a table with home cooked meals. My wife and I support our children but do not hold them on a pedestal or believe they should get special treatment. They are taught to rely on their own instincts as best as possible but we are here to help if it becomes unbearable. We will provide them with opportunity but it is their own choice to excel.

 

How is it then that these parents are teaching their child a lesson? That if you have questions you should sue? That if you are confused you should disrupt the school with lawsuits? Is "home school" a possibility? Would it make better sense to help the child along as a "boy" until the child is old enough to make a decision on their own (traditionally, age 11 is the time when a child can make a determination of right vs wrong).

 

It's a complex issue - but in this case and at this age (1st grader)...yes, you bet...the parents have contributed to this issue.

[boyst]

I hope many people in this world never have kids. I am keeping a list and adding names.

 

This is just an f'd world we live in... and here we are worrying about some kid. He is not your kid. He clearly has issues that need to be addressed. There is no write and wrong with psychological "disorders." There just is psychology. How we express ourselves is viewed culturally. So to say this kid has a disorder or needs help is a personal belief. However, these cases still need counseling. Not to scare them or cheer them. Just to help them understand their choice. Live and let live.

[BringBackFergy]

I hope many people in this world never have kids. I am keeping a list and adding names.

 

 

 

I already have kids..you can keep my name on the list if need be.

[DrDawkinstein]

When I, as a taxpayer, have to pay to accommodate these folks and situations, then it IS my worry. Lawsuits on the state and local level, and then later, surgery paid for on a Federal level. Yeah...Im kicking in to that every step of the way. So it IS my right to stand up to this "rights group" and express my opinion on the subject. We have skin in the game, no pun intended. So we have a say in the matter.

 

And on that note, what a shame that this POS group of people, who are supposed to be advocates, are using this child and family as a pawn. Absolutely disgusting.

 

The fact that my son and daughter have been bullied in school does not create an immediate cause of action in my mind to sue the school. I sit down with my kids and talk to them. We have dinner together every night at a table with home cooked meals. My wife and I support our children but do not hold them on a pedestal or believe they should get special treatment. They are taught to rely on their own instincts as best as possible but we are here to help if it becomes unbearable. We will provide them with opportunity but it is their own choice to excel.

 

How is it then that these parents are teaching their child a lesson? That if you have questions you should sue? That if you are confused you should disrupt the school with lawsuits? Is "home school" a possibility? Would it make better sense to help the child along as a "boy" until the child is old enough to make a decision on their own (traditionally, age 11 is the time when a child can make a determination of right vs wrong).

 

It's a complex issue - but in this case and at this age (1st grader)...yes, you bet...the parents have contributed to this issue.

 

Ok, if we're talking strictly about the lawsuit part of this story, then yes, I completely agree with both of you based on the little we know about this specific case. I stated that above as well, and even called it the "real issue with our society".

 

However, the overly litigious nature of our society has nothing to do with whether GID in children is a real issue. And this child should not be pushed aside because you think the parents are stupid.

 

I think most of our "disagreement" comes from discussing two separate parts of this story as one.

 

 

I value your opinion and apparently you are a professional in this field. You are obviously knowledgeable and demonstrate a good grasp of the issue (unlike me). However, to call me a douche because I feel the way I do or imply that I am a neanderthal for wanting my son and two daughters to live "sexually unconfused" lives is suspect. Do you really want to hear what I think or only parts? Do you wish to force your opinion on others or consider the other side?

 

I wasnt the one who used the term, and already said it was too harsh. My apologies if you took the quoted post personally, it wasnt from me, and I certainly wasnt aiming it at anyone specific.

 

However, you should not dismiss the long road this child faces just because you dont like the actions of the parent.

 

I also dont know how your children would live "sexually confused lives" if they have a clear understanding of gender and sexuality issues? Environment/Nurture play very little, if at all, into these types of things. The more your children know, the better off they will be.

[BringBackFergy]

Rarely, in any case of GID, has it been proven that the parents were the cause. The attitude expressed in these two quoted posts is exactly the kind that helps perpetuate intolerance and even violence towards these people. "Must just be environment. Wacky parents made this kid a nutjob. No need to take them seriously, just scoff at them."

 

You are assuming a WHOLE LOT in how the parents handled their child, and/or how the child has expressed their issues.

 

This is how people with this disorder end up living a tormented life. It's the equivalent of a child telling you they are depressed, and ignoring it. You are letting a real, physical problem eat away at the child due to you not understanding the issue.

 

Im not even acknowledging the lawsuit part of this story because that is the real issue with our society. But it's an entirely different conversation.

 

You say: "I feel bad for my three kids and what they will have to witness when they are adults."

 

What they'll hopefully witness is a society full of tolerance and acceptance, and not ridicule and doubt. I dont see how that is a bad thing, and would hope that is exactly what you are teaching them.

 

Here's the link on the MA convicted murderer who is entitled to reassignment surgery. http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/health/massachusetts-sex-change-surgery-inmate

 

Once again, it is a difficult discussion with my kids...i.e. why someone who murdered his wife should be allowed to have his organs changed at taxpayer expense.

 

My fear, in the Colorado case, is that the parents will force this type of reassignment surgery on a child before the child is legally able to make that decision himself/herself...that is not tolerance for the child (IMO)

[DrDawkinstein]

Would it make better sense to help the child along as a "boy" until the child is old enough to make a decision on their own (traditionally, age 11 is the time when a child can make a determination of right vs wrong).

 

No, not at all. Just because you are arbitrarily deciding what age is old enough to make the decision doesn't mean that is how it works in reality. In cases like this where GID shows up from basically birth, it is even more damaging to force the child to live as the "wrong" gender.