Dean Cain Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I would think Fitzpatrick could benefit from wearing gloves like Kurt Warner. Phil Simms explains in this YouTube video how the glove works for Warner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Or if we had a QB who would not throw INTs at the absolute worst time. I don't understand how people cannot comprehend that. As poorly as the defense played, they stopped the Pats twice in the fourth qtr and gave us a chance to win but Fitz pissed it away. What I don't understand is when the coach, the WR, and another WR all say it was Graham's fault, you still blame Fitz. That is what I cannot comprehend? The Pats scored on every one of their first half drives and the offense started from the twenty yard line each time. No turnovers by the defense. No short fields to work with. And the offense still put up 31. Why do you not blame FJ for pissing away a TD at the one yard line or almost pissing away the game with a fumble Wood had no business recovering. Perspective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Fitz is a tough as nails guy, no question. He played with broken ribs last year when he should have been sitting. Unfortunately the Bills don't have a very good back up so Gailey kept him starting The thing is, Gailey should have never put a rookie WR is that situation with the game on the line Fitz could do better if he had an OC who would rein him in rather then let him go. First off, TJ Graham as the primary WR on the play was just wrong as he is a rookie. Second, Stevie Johnson also mentioned that even he thought is was a mistake to put a rookie in that situation. Particularly someone who had never run that play in practice. "So it's no blame on T.J. at all, because he's never run that route in practice http://espn.go.com/n...-loss-patriotse Yea, gotta love the guy, even when he screams like a little girl... Edited November 15, 2012 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I'd say his W - L record as a starter points to how bad he is. That's because you're under the mistaken belief that the QB alone controls wins and losses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 That's because you're under the mistaken belief that the QB alone controls wins and losses When the ball is in his hands in the final minutes and he turns it over, I'd say yeah, he has a pretty good hand in it. I could care less if we are losing 98 - 94 or 6 - 0. With the ball in your hands at the end of the game, you need to pull it out. He didn't. He doesn't. He won't. That's the difference between a winner and just another QB. Fitz is the latter. I'd love him to prove me wrong, but he consistently proves me right. If he threw 3 picks every game, but drove us for the winning TD in those games, I'd love the guy. Because at the end of the day, the only stat that really matters is the W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) [i posted this elsewhere, and my apologies for doing so again.] Fitzpatrick is not a franchise quarterback by any means, but he is not really the issue with this team. The offense is 14th overall and his rating is a very respectable 87.5. He is having his best season in yards per attempt, completion percentage, and in overall QB rating, and is also on pace to throw 30 TDs (he has 17 through 9 games). Take a look around the league at some of the other QB situations (e.g., the Jets!!), and you'll see that the Bills' QB situation is simply not that bad. Another good receiver would help immensely. The real issue, as everyone knows (or should know), is a truly abysmal defense. It is allowing 410 ypg, which is the worst in team history by far (the previous worst was 371). Before casting more stones at Fitzpatrick, think about that for a moment. Edited November 15, 2012 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 What I don't understand is when the coach, the WR, and another WR all say it was Graham's fault, you still blame Fitz. That is what I cannot comprehend? The Pats scored on every one of their first half drives and the offense started from the twenty yard line each time. No turnovers by the defense. No short fields to work with. And the offense still put up 31. Why do you not blame FJ for pissing away a TD at the one yard line or almost pissing away the game with a fumble Wood had no business recovering. Perspective... my opinion of Fitz is not based off of this one play. In this instance, maybe Fitz's mistake was throwing to Graham in the first place. Maybe he should have looked for a less risky play. As I've said, I like Fitz. I think he is better than any QB we've had in a long time, I just don't think he is good enough and in my opinion the #1 goal for the front office should be finding a new QB. Since it is very difficult to get good QB's in UFA or trade, I think it should be a priority for the upcoming draft. I am not making the case that our defense is not also in need of upgrades, but I think finding a top tier QB should be Priority #1. Next in line of priorities: 1.) I've lost confidence in Buddy and Chan (not that I had much condfidence in them to begin with). I think it is time for a complete front office overhaul. 2.) Assuming #1 does not happen - we need upgrades at LB, CB and more weapons on offense (WR/TE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 [i posted this elsewhere, and my apologies for doing so again.] Fitzpatrick is not a franchise quarterback by any means, but he is not really the issue with this team. The offense is 14th overall and his rating is a very respectable 87.5. He is having his best season in yards per attempt, completion percentage, and in overall QB rating, and is also on pace to throw 30 TDs (he has 17 through 9 games). Take a look around the league at some of the other QB situations (e.g., the Jets!!), and you'll see that the Bills' QB situation is simply not that bad. Another good receiver would help immensely. The real issue, as everyone knows (or should know), is a truly abysmal defense. It is allowing 410 ypg, which is the worst in team history by far (the previous worst was 371). Before casting more stones at Fitzpatrick, think about that for a moment. Why does it have to be an either / or thing? Can't both be lousy when it counts? The defense is historically bad, who is arguing different? The defense is the MAIN REASON WE ARE 3 - 6. There....it's been documented. Happy? The defensive woes do not absolve the offense of choking when the game is on the line. The QB leads the offense. He is not getting it done in crunch time. When we have the opportunity to win the game, with the ball in our hands, we have to come through. That's what winning teams do. Conversely, if the other team has the ball in their hands, the D has to come through. Neither is. Period. So it's not a this side - that side thing, it's a team thing. However, clutch QB play can overcome a lot of evils. Ours isn't clutch. I wish that wasn't so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 When the ball is in his hands in the final minutes and he turns it over, I'd say yeah, he has a pretty good hand in it. I could care less if we are losing 98 - 94 or 6 - 0. With the ball in your hands at the end of the game, you need to pull it out. He didn't. He doesn't. He won't. That's the difference between a winner and just another QB. Fitz is the latter. I'd love him to prove me wrong, but he consistently proves me right. If he threw 3 picks every game, but drove us for the winning TD in those games, I'd love the guy. Because at the end of the day, the only stat that really matters is the W. Your offense scores 94 points and your defense gives up 98 points and your QB fails on the last drive to get 99 points and it's the QBs fault the team lost. Why that's, PERFECT @#*%$! LOGIC, what was I thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Why does it have to be an either / or thing? Can't both be lousy when it counts? The defense is historically bad, who is arguing different? The defense is the MAIN REASON WE ARE 3 - 6. There....it's been documented. Happy? The defensive woes do not absolve the offense of choking when the game is on the line. The QB leads the offense. He is not getting it done in crunch time. When we have the opportunity to win the game, with the ball in our hands, we have to come through. That's what winning teams do. Conversely, if the other team has the ball in their hands, the D has to come through. Neither is. Period. So it's not a this side - that side thing, it's a team thing. However, clutch QB play can overcome a lot of evils. Ours isn't clutch. I wish that wasn't so. I'll confess to being a bit of a stats geek and not all that sympathetic to the concept of "clutch." The reason Fitzpatrick finds himself in situations where he has to produce in the last couple of minutes is because despite putting 25-35 points on the board, the defense gives up 6 more. Late second quarter is just as important as late fourth quarter in the grand scheme of things - stop your opponents early on so that you don't need to stop them later, and score early on so that you don't need to pull out a last second TD later. I tend to look at averages over time - and by that measure Fitzpatrick is having his best season. That said, he's not the answer. I realize that. The only sort of QB that can overcome a defense like the Bills' is a Brees, Rogers, or Brady (who have all done this). But they're very rare. The middle tier of QBs would suffer here just like Fitzpatrick has - because of the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I'll confess to being a bit of a stats geek and not all that sympathetic to the concept of "clutch." The reason Fitzpatrick finds himself in situations where he has to produce in the last couple of minutes is because despite putting 25-35 points on the board, the defense gives up 6 more. Late second quarter is just as important as late fourth quarter in the grand scheme of things - stop your opponents early on so that you don't need to stop them later, and score early on so that you don't need to pull out a last second TD later. I tend to look at averages over time - and by that measure Fitzpatrick is having his best season. That said, he's not the answer. I realize that. The only sort of QB that can overcome a defense like the Bills' is a Brees, Rogers, or Brady (who have all done this). But they're very rare. The middle tier of QBs would suffer here just like Fitzpatrick has - because of the defense. I agree with what you have said, but in the Bills 6 losses their offense would have had to average 40.7 points. Even Brady, Brees, Rodgers are not capable of doing this, nobody is, yet because Fitz didn't do this, and nobody in their right mind should expect him to, he is considered garbage. It really is mind boggling to the Fitz haters as to what they want from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I agree with what you have said, but in the Bills 6 losses their offense would have had to average 40.7 points. Even Brady, Brees, Rodgers are not capable of doing this, nobody is, yet because Fitz didn't do this, and nobody in their right mind should expect him to, he is considered garbage. It really is mind boggling to the Fitz haters as to what they want from him. Like not turning the ball over in the final minutes of a close game? Yep. Mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Is Fitz good enough to take a team to the playoff? Yes. Is he good enough to overcome this horrid defense? No. Fitzpatrick lies somewhere in between serviceable and better than avg. A QB like that can win games in this league w a good HC, a good OL, good running game and a good D. See Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson and Jim Mcmahon. I would take Fitz over any of them. Fitz has a good OL and a good running game, thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurt Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 On the Spikes hit, I wouldn't mind to see some other Bills players jump on Spikes and beat the **** out of him. I think on some other team you would see that. I meant rip off his helmet and give him a real beating and send him to the hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Is Fitz good enough to take a team to the playoff? Yes. Is he good enough to overcome this horrid defense? No. Fitzpatrick lies somewhere in between serviceable and better than avg. A QB like that can win games in this league w a good HC, a good OL, good running game and a good D. See Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson and Jim Mcmahon. I would take Fitz over any of them. Fitz has a good OL and a good running game, thats it. You must have been hazed and confused when you wrote this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 More I see this hit the more I think we need put little flags on the QB's. 10 years ago a QB complained about this hit he be laughed at. (All QB's do this now just sucks..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Is Fitz good enough to take a team to the playoff? Yes. Is he good enough to overcome this horrid defense? No. Fitzpatrick lies somewhere in between serviceable and better than avg. A QB like that can win games in this league w a good HC, a good OL, good running game and a good D. See Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson and Jim Mcmahon. I would take Fitz over any of them. Fitz has a good OL and a good running game, thats it. Couldn't agree more. Look at Jay Cutler, Eli Manning, Matt Schaub, Phillip Rivers, & Tony Romo. These guys reputations as good but below elite QBs is based entirely on the fact that they have: A - an elite receivers (Cutler, Manning, Schaub, River, Romo), B - an elite defense & special teams (Cutler, Manning, Schaub), C - an elite head coach (Manning). It should come as NO surprise that the QB with the elite coach is the only guy above who has a Super Bowl ring. Edited November 15, 2012 by BigCountryBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 You must have been hazed and confused when you wrote this. Really? Which one of those great QB's would you take over Fitz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Really? Which one of those great QB's would you take over Fitz? Rypien and McMahon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Rypien and McMahon. You have to be kidding. Neither was any good outside of one season by Rypien, and McMahon never even played a full season. In Rypien's one great year, he had one of the best offensive lines ever in front of him plus a great receiver corps. He had only one other season where is qb rating was above 80 (1989). The ones I'd take over Fitz are Hostetler, who was productive for a long time for a challenged team ( http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HostJe00.htm ) and Johnson, who also had a pretty good career ( http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnBr00.htm ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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