So far looks like the Bills made a good choice in Cordy Glenn

[eme123]

I thought Glenn would turn out to be a disappointment at LT. So far he is proving me wrong which is great!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The LT position continues to evolve, particularly with teams placing an emphasis on passing the ball and rushers who possess great speed and quickness. The days of 6'5-6'7 330+ behemoths handling blind side duties are probably over.

 

http://www.nationalf...in-the-NFL.html

 

Glenn may be able to make up for less than stellar foot speed with his arm length, but he's not the prototype either. That's not to say Glenn can't be good, but he doesn't fit the mold.

 

Hey Vet.

 

As far as the link, the author's argument is weak on three points, IMO.

 

Firstly he points to two examples to back up his argument. One of those players hasn't yet played a regular season game (Kalil) so he only gives one proven example in Joe Thomas to back his argument. I guess he could have cited D'Brick too but D'Brick isn't really that good, IMO… certainly not in the company of those great (and much larger) players mentioned upthread. This is not much of a sample to back up his advocacy of a new age offensive tackle.

 

My second criticism is that the author states that pass rushers today are smaller, faster players.

 

However NFL pass rushers have almost always been smaller, faster players. If you look at the list of the NFL's All Time Sack Leaders, the list is very strongly slanted towards speed guys, not power guys.

 

The All Time Sack list is dominated by guys like Lawrence Taylor (LB), Bruce Smith (albeit a natural 300 pounder who cut up to play at around 262 in his prime), Kevin Greene (LB) Chris Doleman (tweener) Charles Haley (tweener/LB), Derrick Thomas (LB), Ricky Jackson (LB), Leslie O'Neal (tweener), Pat Swilling (LB)… these guys were all about speed and in fact, this is the predominant pass rush prototype. They are the model for those who came later like DeMarcus Ware, John Abraham, Shawne Merriman, Terrell Suggs, Von Miller etc. So the author is right that these great pass rushers are smaller but they've always been smaller.

 

Guys that were primarily bull/club rushers like Reggie White are the exception. On the All Time list, there are very few of this kind of player. In today's game, the only power rusher I can think of is Jason Pierre Paul and he's very fast and athletic so he's not exclusively a power player.

 

There is a third type but they are more similar to the speed rusher/tweeners than they are the bull rushers. These are the long, athletic, slender pass rushers… guys like Jason Taylor, Simeon Rice, Jevon Kearse, Richard Dent, Clyde Simmons, Sean Jones, Trace Armstrong… all 6'5" and athletic. Long bodies, long arms. Today's example of this type of player are Jared Allen and San Francisco's Aldon Smith… tall, slender, and very long arms.

 

So the author is wrong about the physical characteristics of pass rushers. Those characteristics have not changed.

 

Thirdly and finally I think he's also wrong about smaller tackles being more effective. Virtually every great pass rusher sets up his opponent with speed and when the tackle overplays the edge, the pass rusher counters with a bull rush, driving the blocker back into the quarterback. This has been true from the beginning of the NFL's modern era. (You can't try to run someone over and if that doesn't work, beat them to the outside… the great pass rushers start with speed and counter with force)

 

I'm not a physics guy but when you combine 260 pounds of speed and power, you need an equal force to negate that speed and power. However because pass rushers go forward… pass blockers must go backwards.

 

In order to absorb the force of the smaller but faster pass rushers, the pass blockers need to have enormous mass to anchor themselves. The prototypical long arms allow a pass blocker to steer the rusher away without overcommitting his movement towards the outside. The prototypical mass allows the pass blocker to anchor against bull rushes.

 

I think this will always be true and IMO, Cordy Glenn is a prototypical left offensive tackle. To the author's contention, even though pass rushers are smaller, a smaller tackle who can mirror will get overpowered too often because he's moving backwards trying to absorb someone moving forward.

 

In response to the suggestion that Walter Jones had a finesse aspect to his greatness, that's true of all the great offensive tackles. But Jones' feats in the weight room are legendary and his workouts included wearing a body harness and lanyard attached to a car and pulling that car across a parking lot, repeatedly.

[Malazan]

Thank you, San Jose Bills Fan. That is an excellent deconstruction.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Thanks, Jeremy. I probably spend way too much time thinking about this stuff.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Hey Vet.

 

As far as the link, the author's argument is weak on three points, IMO.

 

Firstly he points to two examples to back up his argument. One of those players hasn't yet played a regular season game (Kalil) so he only gives one proven example in Joe Thomas to back his argument. I guess he could have cited D'Brick too but D'Brick isn't really that good, IMO… certainly not in the company of those great (and much larger) players mentioned upthread. This is not much of a sample to back up his advocacy of a new age offensive tackle.

 

My second criticism is that the author states that pass rushers today are smaller, faster players.

 

However NFL pass rushers have almost always been smaller, faster players. If you look at the list of the NFL's All Time Sack Leaders, the list is very strongly slanted towards speed guys, not power guys.

 

The All Time Sack list is dominated by guys like Lawrence Taylor (LB), Bruce Smith (albeit a natural 300 pounder who cut up to play at around 262 in his prime), Kevin Greene (LB) Chris Doleman (tweener) Charles Haley (tweener/LB), Derrick Thomas (LB), Ricky Jackson (LB), Leslie O'Neal (tweener), Pat Swilling (LB)… these guys were all about speed and in fact, this is the predominant pass rush prototype. They are the model for those who came later like DeMarcus Ware, John Abraham, Shawne Merriman, Terrell Suggs, Von Miller etc. So the author is right that these great pass rushers are smaller but they've always been smaller.

 

Guys that were primarily bull/club rushers like Reggie White are the exception. On the All Time list, there are very few of this kind of player. In today's game, the only power rusher I can think of is Jason Pierre Paul and he's very fast and athletic so he's not exclusively a power player.

 

There is a third type but they are more similar to the speed rusher/tweeners than they are the bull rushers. These are the long, athletic, slender pass rushers… guys like Jason Taylor, Simeon Rice, Jevon Kearse, Richard Dent, Clyde Simmons, Sean Jones, Trace Armstrong… all 6'5" and athletic. Long bodies, long arms. Today's example of this type of player are Jared Allen and San Francisco's Aldon Smith… tall, slender, and very long arms.

 

So the author is wrong about the physical characteristics of pass rushers. Those characteristics have not changed.

 

Thirdly and finally I think he's also wrong about smaller tackles being more effective. Virtually every great pass rusher sets up his opponent with speed and when the tackle overplays the edge, the pass rusher counters with a bull rush, driving the blocker back into the quarterback. This has been true from the beginning of the NFL's modern era. (You can't try to run someone over and if that doesn't work, beat them to the outside… the great pass rushers start with speed and counter with force)

 

I'm not a physics guy but when you combine 260 pounds of speed and power, you need an equal force to negate that speed and power. However because pass rushers go forward… pass blockers must go backwards.

 

In order to absorb the force of the smaller but faster pass rushers, the pass blockers need to have enormous mass to anchor themselves. The prototypical long arms allow a pass blocker to steer the rusher away without overcommitting his movement towards the outside. The prototypical mass allows the pass blocker to anchor against bull rushes.

 

I think this will always be true and IMO, Cordy Glenn is a prototypical left offensive tackle. To the author's contention, even though pass rushers are smaller, a smaller tackle who can mirror will get overpowered too often because he's moving backwards trying to absorb someone moving forward.

 

In response to the suggestion that Walter Jones had a finesse aspect to his greatness, that's true of all the great offensive tackles. But Jones' feats in the weight room are legendary and his workouts included wearing a body harness and lanyard attached to a car and pulling that car across a parking lot, repeatedly.

 

The numbers still seem relative. Joe Thomas is a big man at 6'6" and 310# and that's still bigger than the defenders he's going against. Even though I wouldn't call Thomas small, it is true that he isn't dragging around that 50+ extra pounds every play like some of the behemoths of past generations. The article is right in that there are (plenty of) differences between him and Mike Williams and among them is that he is truly athletic, can move fluidly and quickly, and is very powerful. Fat Mike was drafted in the mold of the Nate Newtons of the 80s, a huge body coated in baby fat, a big tree that defenders would have to run around and try not to have fall on them ("timber!") in the running game. Texas was still using the super-size model of lineman and the Bills bought in, but Fat Mike, Derrick Dockery, Leonard Davis, and Jonathan Scott haven't exactly set the NFL on fire.

[Luxy312]

When all is said and done, Cordy Glenn looks like the LT that this team has needed since Jason Peters departure. The good news here too is that he doesn't have to look like an all-pro in his first year. Fitzpatrack was STILL sacked less than any other QB starting 16 games last year due to his quick decision making. Let's hope that decision making gets a little better this year and the interceptions come down. Maybe having that extra 0.5-1.0 second will help. I will say it's fun being optimistic this time of the year. For the most part, this is the time when we see no flaws in our rookies and all of our free agency moves are still "brilliant".

[Orton's Arm]

Hey Vet.

 

As far as the link, the author's argument is weak on three points, IMO.

 

Firstly he points to two examples to back up his argument. One of those players hasn't yet played a regular season game (Kalil) so he only gives one proven example in Joe Thomas to back his argument. I guess he could have cited D'Brick too but D'Brick isn't really that good, IMO… certainly not in the company of those great (and much larger) players mentioned upthread. This is not much of a sample to back up his advocacy of a new age offensive tackle.

 

My second criticism is that the author states that pass rushers today are smaller, faster players.

 

However NFL pass rushers have almost always been smaller, faster players. If you look at the list of the NFL's All Time Sack Leaders, the list is very strongly slanted towards speed guys, not power guys.

 

The All Time Sack list is dominated by guys like Lawrence Taylor (LB), Bruce Smith (albeit a natural 300 pounder who cut up to play at around 262 in his prime), Kevin Greene (LB) Chris Doleman (tweener) Charles Haley (tweener/LB), Derrick Thomas (LB), Ricky Jackson (LB), Leslie O'Neal (tweener), Pat Swilling (LB)… these guys were all about speed and in fact, this is the predominant pass rush prototype. They are the model for those who came later like DeMarcus Ware, John Abraham, Shawne Merriman, Terrell Suggs, Von Miller etc. So the author is right that these great pass rushers are smaller but they've always been smaller.

 

Guys that were primarily bull/club rushers like Reggie White are the exception. On the All Time list, there are very few of this kind of player. In today's game, the only power rusher I can think of is Jason Pierre Paul and he's very fast and athletic so he's not exclusively a power player.

 

There is a third type but they are more similar to the speed rusher/tweeners than they are the bull rushers. These are the long, athletic, slender pass rushers… guys like Jason Taylor, Simeon Rice, Jevon Kearse, Richard Dent, Clyde Simmons, Sean Jones, Trace Armstrong… all 6'5" and athletic. Long bodies, long arms. Today's example of this type of player are Jared Allen and San Francisco's Aldon Smith… tall, slender, and very long arms.

 

So the author is wrong about the physical characteristics of pass rushers. Those characteristics have not changed.

 

Thirdly and finally I think he's also wrong about smaller tackles being more effective. Virtually every great pass rusher sets up his opponent with speed and when the tackle overplays the edge, the pass rusher counters with a bull rush, driving the blocker back into the quarterback. This has been true from the beginning of the NFL's modern era. (You can't try to run someone over and if that doesn't work, beat them to the outside… the great pass rushers start with speed and counter with force)

 

I'm not a physics guy but when you combine 260 pounds of speed and power, you need an equal force to negate that speed and power. However because pass rushers go forward… pass blockers must go backwards.

 

In order to absorb the force of the smaller but faster pass rushers, the pass blockers need to have enormous mass to anchor themselves. The prototypical long arms allow a pass blocker to steer the rusher away without overcommitting his movement towards the outside. The prototypical mass allows the pass blocker to anchor against bull rushes.

 

I think this will always be true and IMO, Cordy Glenn is a prototypical left offensive tackle. To the author's contention, even though pass rushers are smaller, a smaller tackle who can mirror will get overpowered too often because he's moving backwards trying to absorb someone moving forward.

 

In response to the suggestion that Walter Jones had a finesse aspect to his greatness, that's true of all the great offensive tackles. But Jones' feats in the weight room are legendary and his workouts included wearing a body harness and lanyard attached to a car and pulling that car across a parking lot, repeatedly.

I liked reading your post more than I liked the original article. You have dug deeper than the author of the article did.

 

I looked up three great LTs from the past: Orlando Pace, Jon Ogden, and Tony Boselli. All three were known as excellent pass protectors. Their stats were as follows:

 

Orlando Pace: 6'7", 325

Jon Ogden: 6'9", 345

Tony Boselli: 6'7", 322

 

Toward the end of Bruce Smith's career, Tony Boselli completely shut him down in a playoff game. The Bills' first playoff loss at home. As you mentioned, Bruce played at around 265. Today's pass rushing DLs are typically not smaller or lighter than that. And they're certainly not faster or more athletic than Bruce Smith! If a 320 - 330 pound LT could block an elite 265 pound DE back in the '90s, why on Earth has the league "evolved" to make this no longer possible today? That also seems to be the core point of your post; and I'd definitely agree with your core point!

[Doc]

I liked reading your post more than I liked the original article. You have dug deeper than the author of the article did.

 

I looked up three great LTs from the past: Orlando Pace, Jon Ogden, and Tony Boselli. All three were known as excellent pass protectors. Their stats were as follows:

 

Orlando Pace: 6'7", 325

Jon Ogden: 6'9", 345

Tony Boselli: 6'7", 322

 

Toward the end of Bruce Smith's career, Tony Boselli completely shut him down in a playoff game. The Bills' first playoff loss at home. As you mentioned, Bruce played at around 265. Today's pass rushing DLs are typically not smaller or lighter than that. And they're certainly not faster or more athletic than Bruce Smith! If a 320 - 330 pound LT could block an elite 265 pound DE back in the '90s, why on Earth has the league "evolved" to make this no longer possible today? That also seems to be the core point of your post; and I'd definitely agree with your core point!

Boselli may have shut-down Bruce that day, but the Bills lost because the refs screwed up the fumble call (it wasn't a fumble).

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I liked reading your post more than I liked the original article. You have dug deeper than the author of the article did.

 

I looked up three great LTs from the past: Orlando Pace, Jon Ogden, and Tony Boselli. All three were known as excellent pass protectors. Their stats were as follows:

 

Orlando Pace: 6'7", 325

Jon Ogden: 6'9", 345

Tony Boselli: 6'7", 322

 

Toward the end of Bruce Smith's career, Tony Boselli completely shut him down in a playoff game. The Bills' first playoff loss at home. As you mentioned, Bruce played at around 265. Today's pass rushing DLs are typically not smaller or lighter than that. And they're certainly not faster or more athletic than Bruce Smith! If a 320 - 330 pound LT could block an elite 265 pound DE back in the '90s, why on Earth has the league "evolved" to make this no longer possible today? That also seems to be the core point of your post; and I'd definitely agree with your core point!

 

Thanks, EA. I appreciate the encouragement.

 

I'm afraid I obscured my own points.

 

Thanks for giving the much more effective "Cliff Notes" version.

 

[Bill from NYC]

I liked reading your post more than I liked the original article. You have dug deeper than the author of the article did.

 

I looked up three great LTs from the past: Orlando Pace, Jon Ogden, and Tony Boselli. All three were known as excellent pass protectors. Their stats were as follows:

 

Orlando Pace: 6'7", 325

Jon Ogden: 6'9", 345

Tony Boselli: 6'7", 322

 

Toward the end of Bruce Smith's career, Tony Boselli completely shut him down in a playoff game. The Bills' first playoff loss at home. As you mentioned, Bruce played at around 265. Today's pass rushing DLs are typically not smaller or lighter than that. And they're certainly not faster or more athletic than Bruce Smith! If a 320 - 330 pound LT could block an elite 265 pound DE back in the '90s, why on Earth has the league "evolved" to make this no longer possible today? That also seems to be the core point of your post; and I'd definitely agree with your core point!

 

EA, please do not believe that Pace weighed 325. Do trust me on this, he weighed more than this as a college sophmore, and I don't care what he was ever listed at. Pat Williams was also listed at 325 at times, and he was WAY closer to 400 than 325. Pace came into the NFL at an easy 350. EASY!

 

I have been watching football for more than 40 years. Pace (when healthy) is in my top 5 players of all time. Seriously. As a rookie, he was one of the strongest players in the league, if not THE strongest. Pace was the perfect LT. He was the best at power run blocking, pass protection, and he fired out on screens like nobody I have ever seen.

Walter Jones was great. Was he strong like Pace? Hell no. He doubled as a tight end in junior college. He was as agile as any LT I ever watched, but he probably played in his prime at approx. 300 lbs., despite what he was "listed" at.

 

Anyway, this thread was about Glenn. Imo, the highest hope for him would be for him to equal Jumbo Elliot, a man who I met, and spoke about football with for a half hour or so. Btw, Elliot actually coached Jason Peters. We talked a lot about him, but I digress. Elliot was as strong as an ox. He told me that he had NO fear of Bruce Smith as a human being. BUT, he said that if he made a mistake for 1/2 of a second, his QB was finished. PM me if you want more details of our conversation. It was good.

 

But wrt Glenn, he will never have the agility of the GREAT LTs. The good news is that he might not need it. He DOES have the strength, and if he can play at the level of Elliot, Tarik Glenn, or another of my favorites, Brad Hopkins, he will be just what the doctor ordered for the Buffalo Bills football team.

 

Can he? I don't know. I'm just a little uncomfortable with the fact that he played OG at Georgia for a while. But, this doesn't have to matter. I am rooting hard for CG to be a great player. Bills fans really do deserve a prominent LT.

We shall see.

 

Btw, great to see you posting!

[Doc]

I was hoping Glenn would come in at around 330#.