Can Fitzpatrick be an upper echelon QB?

[John from Riverside]

Honestly.....I think this next years draft is the time to draft that QB

 

- The offensive and defensive lines have been addressed....does everybody remember that was the complaint of the offseasons.....we have done this.

 

- We need a 2nd option at WR to emerge

 

- We have resupplied our teams with secondary

 

- Quarterback and Linebacker.....those are areas I want to see addressed early in next years draft.

[Billsrhody]

First of.....thank you for providing honest stats and not trying to skew them.....because when you looked at those healthy number I know you cringed as it did not support your argument.

 

back to the beginning of the post though

 

- AJ green is going to be a special player in this league....Jerome Simpson had an excellent year (it does not matter that they let him walk...he was better then ANYTHING we had as a secondary receiver) and their TE is better then our TE.

 

- The offensive weapons for the bills were in and out of the lineup with injury....which means they probably ARE better overall then Cinci's BUT THEY WERE NOT THERE FOR FITZ TO USE.....it does matter if they are better if they are not on the field.....

 

- The numbers on the running backs are a bit of an enigma and seem to signify that we had two great running backs at the same time.....we didnt...when Fred was healthy....Spiller struggled to make an impact because he wasnt getting the touches....when Fred went down....CJ shined. It is up to Chan to keep both those running backs playing at that level in the same games now......but Fitz did not have 2 running backs running wild for him at the same time.

 

- Cinci had a top 10 defense....this is not factored in anywhere and is extremely important to the whole equation. Have a good defense wipes out mistakes on offense (your going to see that this year when our defense is doing that for Fitzpatrick)

 

- And now healthy games against healthy games....you can see that Fitz numbers are better (by the way...I am a Dalton fan. It has been difficult for me to make this arguement because I AM a Dalton fan. I did not necessarily agree with the Williams pick with Dalton on the board because I truly do believe that Andy could have been Fitzpatricks successor here......but the bills felt that fixing their defense was paramount and Aaron Williams is a very good DB talent who will probably be starting opposite Gilmore...it is very hard to find that combonation in a corner of size and speed and now we have bookend corners who are 6' tall....over 200 pounds.....and hit like trucks.

 

Well its nice to know that you're a Dalton supported. I had guessed otherwise based on your argument. I think theres a lot to like about the kid.

 

I agree with you on AJ Green but not on Jerome Simpson. Jerome Simpsons impact last year was very similar to David Nelsons impact on the Bills. Also I'm not sure what you mean by Fitz's weapons missing time. It doesn't matter if both running backs were good at the same time. Spiller was getting 3 touches a game when Jackson was healthy. Either way, Fitz had a good to great running back start every game last year. And of the top 3 receivers, they missed a total of 3 games (Chandler 2, Nelson 1). Thats the same number of games that the Bengals receivers missed (Gresham 2, Green 1).

 

I agree that Fitz's first half numbers are impressive, but I'm not convinced he can keep up that kind of pace for a whole season. Do you think Fitz will throw for 4000 yds, 30 TDs and 15 INTs with a 66% cmp% next year? I'm not sure I can see him doing that well. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I sure am pulling for him.

[John from Riverside]

Well its nice to know that you're a Dalton supported. I had guessed otherwise based on your argument. I think theres a lot to like about the kid.

 

I agree with you on AJ Green but not on Jerome Simpson. Jerome Simpsons impact last year was very similar to David Nelsons impact on the Bills. Also I'm not sure what you mean by Fitz's weapons missing time. It doesn't matter if both running backs were good at the same time. Spiller was getting 3 touches a game when Jackson was healthy. Either way, Fitz had a good to great running back start every game last year. And of the top 3 receivers, they missed a total of 3 games (Chandler 2, Nelson 1). Thats the same number of games that the Bengals receivers missed (Gresham 2, Green 1).

 

I agree that Fitz's first half numbers are impressive, but I'm not convinced he can keep up that kind of pace for a whole season. Do you think Fitz will throw for 4000 yds, 30 TDs and 15 INTs with a 66% cmp% next year? I'm not sure I can see him doing that well. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I sure am pulling for him.

 

 

- The defensive part of the equation is still the elephant in the room

 

- I dont know that Fitz would have put up those numbers....I DO know that his numbers were not as bad as the 2nd half of his seasn....he was HURT. Cracked ribs take so much out of you...and keep in mind that he isn't a incredible physical talent to begin with.....he did that in the first part of the season because he is a very smart QB who makes the most out of what he has......in a lot of ways that is similar to Dalton.

[San-O]

- The defensive part of the equation is still the elephant in the room

 

- I dont know that Fitz would have put up those numbers....I DO know that his numbers were not as bad as the 2nd half of his seasn....he was HURT. Cracked ribs take so much out of you...and keep in mind that he isn't a incredible physical talent to begin with.....he did that in the first part of the season because he is a very smart QB who makes the most out of what he has......in a lot of ways that is similar to Dalton.

 

 

Q: Has anyone ever confirmed the injury question? From the Bills front office or management?

[paintmyhouse]

There are always going to be people who defend whoever the Bills QB is, regardless of performance or production.

 

o Some were all into RJ, who if only had an O line and corrected his sack problem was the real deal. I bit some on that one.

 

o Some were all exited about JP, who had a few good games throwing the ball downfield to Evans for nice TDs.

 

o Some were all exited about TE, who also had a nice stretch to start a season, and looked promising. I thought he was going to make it. For a short time.

 

o Now Fitz is the guy under center, and again there are those diehard supporters.

 

 

I think anyone can have a good series of games in the NFL, until D coordinators figure them out and take away what they do well.

 

Fitz has shown he can be an "upper echelon" QB for a few games, and that's about it. He was absolutely brutal in many games last

year, insert plausible reason here, and needs to show he can be at least a reasonable NFL QB for an entire season, or I'm drafting a

QB very high.

 

IMO.

 

FWIW: I do think Fitz can have success, by throwing much less and an O that runs much more, but Gailey seems to be averse to this from what I have seen.

 

I agree with your last sentence, Gailey is a huge problem for this team. He is very stubborn, and to be he has the stubborness of Jauron, even. He is in love with passing the ball, and for those that think he designed this offense to use Fitz's strengths, they are nuts. If he really did that it would be running the ball a lot more and not having Fitz throw as much, Fitz is proven to be unreliable and to be a turnover machine and a guy who starts slow and then has to force things in games. Rarely is he good in the first half of games.

[Luxy312]

For his career he has 68 TDs and 65 INTs.

 

That seams more of a decision issue than mechanics, IMO.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/ryanfitzpatrick/2506581/profile

 

According to Lee, his mechanics are a flaw. For his career thus far, his mechanics have been bad. Post all the numbers you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

[San-O]

According to Lee, his mechanics are a flaw. For his career thus far, his mechanics have been bad. Post all the numbers you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

 

 

Huh?

 

So you are in agreement with previous poster it's not decisions, but mechanics then?

 

Just asking.

[eball]

I agree with your last sentence, Gailey is a huge problem for this team. He is very stubborn, and to be he has the stubborness of Jauron, even. He is in love with passing the ball, and for those that think he designed this offense to use Fitz's strengths, they are nuts. If he really did that it would be running the ball a lot more and not having Fitz throw as much, Fitz is proven to be unreliable and to be a turnover machine and a guy who starts slow and then has to force things in games. Rarely is he good in the first half of games.

It'd be nice if you spoke from somewhere other than your backside.

 

Gailey, as OC of Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996: 477 pass attempts, 525 rushes

Gailey, as OC of Pittsburgh Steelers, 1997: 486 pass attempts, 572 rushes

Gailey, as HC of Dallas Cowboys, 1998: 493 pass attempts, 499 rushes

Gailey, as HC of Dallas Cowboys, 1999: 531 pass attempts, 491 rushes

Gailey, as OC of Miami Dolphins, 2000: 449 pass attempts, 496 rushes

Gailey, as OC of Miami Dolphins, 2001: 480 pass attempts, 473 rushes

 

So, for those of you scoring at home (or even if you're alone), that puts the "stubborn, pass-happy, can't play to his team's strengths" Gailey at 2916 passing attempts and 3056 rushing attempts in his pre-Buffalo NFL career as an OC or HC.

 

Try again, house painter. Let's see what Gailey does on a team with some actual talent (and a defense) this year.

[Buffalos#1Fan]

It'd be nice if you spoke from somewhere other than your backside.

 

Gailey, as OC of Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996: 477 pass attempts, 525 rushes

Gailey, as OC of Pittsburgh Steelers, 1997: 486 pass attempts, 572 rushes

Gailey, as HC of Dallas Cowboys, 1998: 493 pass attempts, 499 rushes

Gailey, as HC of Dallas Cowboys, 1999: 531 pass attempts, 491 rushes

Gailey, as OC of Miami Dolphins, 2000: 449 pass attempts, 496 rushes

Gailey, as OC of Miami Dolphins, 2001: 480 pass attempts, 473 rushes

 

So, for those of you scoring at home (or even if you're alone), that puts the "stubborn, pass-happy, can't play to his team's strengths" Gailey at 2916 passing attempts and 3056 rushing attempts in his pre-Buffalo NFL career as an OC or HC.

 

Try again, house painter. Let's see what Gailey does on a team with some actual talent (and a defense) this year.

 

do you have the statistics for this ratio while in Buffalo? And I feel like our run game is a lot stronger than our pass game.

[Billsrhody]

- The defensive part of the equation is still the elephant in the room

 

- I dont know that Fitz would have put up those numbers....I DO know that his numbers were not as bad as the 2nd half of his seasn....he was HURT. Cracked ribs take so much out of you...and keep in mind that he isn't a incredible physical talent to begin with.....he did that in the first part of the season because he is a very smart QB who makes the most out of what he has......in a lot of ways that is similar to Dalton.

 

The defense should lead to more wins if it is significantly better than last year's unit (which it should be). However, its probably not going to have a huge impact on the number of INTs and TDs Fitz throws. He's always going to be a QB who takes risks with some throws and tries to gun some balls into tight windows.

 

Yes, I know he was hurt. But the fact is that we haven't seen him put together a good full season yet in his career. Hopefully this will be the year.

[San-O]

do you have the statistics for this ratio while in Buffalo? And I feel like our run game is a lot stronger than our pass game.

 

 

Buffalo was 10th in pass attempts / game in 2011, and 27th in rush attempts / game in 2011. Per NFL.com

 

Interestingly enough, they were also 4th in rushing yards/attempt and tied for 22nd in receiving yards/attempt.

 

 

Keep throwing Chan.

[eball]

do you have the statistics for this ratio while in Buffalo? And I feel like our run game is a lot stronger than our pass game.

They are completely skewed towards the pass -- 553 to 401 in 2010, and 601 to 391 last year -- and that's my point. The teams Gailey coached in the NFL previously all had strong offensive lines and strong defenses, and he took advantage of it.

 

It's easy to look at Jackson and Spiller and their yards per carry and say "strong running game" but the success of the running game was predicated on spreading the defense out.

 

Now that the Bills have acquired defensive talent and appear to be stronger on the OL, let's see how he calls a game.

[paintmyhouse]

It'd be nice if you spoke from somewhere other than your backside.

 

Gailey, as OC of Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996: 477 pass attempts, 525 rushes

Gailey, as OC of Pittsburgh Steelers, 1997: 486 pass attempts, 572 rushes

Gailey, as HC of Dallas Cowboys, 1998: 493 pass attempts, 499 rushes

Gailey, as HC of Dallas Cowboys, 1999: 531 pass attempts, 491 rushes

Gailey, as OC of Miami Dolphins, 2000: 449 pass attempts, 496 rushes

Gailey, as OC of Miami Dolphins, 2001: 480 pass attempts, 473 rushes

 

So, for those of you scoring at home (or even if you're alone), that puts the "stubborn, pass-happy, can't play to his team's strengths" Gailey at 2916 passing attempts and 3056 rushing attempts in his pre-Buffalo NFL career as an OC or HC.

 

Try again, house painter. Let's see what Gailey does on a team with some actual talent (and a defense) this year.

 

ANd he never won big at any of those places either. He won some, he had some good players. He had some good running backs too. I don't need to try, it is the truth. He is presently undervaluing the Bills running game, and it is a fact.

 

You are hilarious, you are the one that needs to try harder. 10 years ago in the NFL is ancient times, the game has totally changed in the last 10 seasons, you just make yourself look like a fool trying to compare today to 10 years ago. Pretty sad effort really.

[Luxy312]

Huh?

 

So you are in agreement with previous poster it's not decisions, but mechanics then?

 

Just asking.

 

Part of it is mechanics and part of it is decision making. At the end of the day, he was trying to make throws that his mechanics didn't allow him to make. As Lee explained it in an interview, you generally don't want a QB for example rolling right and throwing across his body left. Generally, most QB's are too "closed" and it results in mistakes. However, by modifying mechanics and opening up where you plant your feet when you're making the throw, you can actually make that play. Look at Fitzpatrick's mistakes last year and you can see plenty of issues like that. Throwing across his body; being in a bad position to try to make a throw; etc. Let's keep in mind too that 17 of his interceptions came in the 10 games AFTER he cracked his ribs. I don't know if you've ever cracked a rib, but honestly I'm not sure how he was even getting it in the air.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Luxy312

[Rocky Landing]

ANd he never won big at any of those places either. He won some, he had some good players. He had some good running backs too. I don't need to try, it is the truth. He is presently undervaluing the Bills running game, and it is a fact.

 

You are hilarious, you are the one that needs to try harder. 10 years ago in the NFL is ancient times, the game has totally changed in the last 10 seasons, you just make yourself look like a fool trying to compare today to 10 years ago. Pretty sad effort really.

Hilarious? A "sad effort?"

 

eball uses stats and actual numbers to make his point and you blather in return.

 

Seriously. Stop trolling.

[paintmyhouse]

Part of it is mechanics and part of it is decision making. At the end of the day, he was trying to make throws that his mechanics didn't allow him to make. As Lee explained it in an interview, you generally don't want a QB for example rolling right and throwing across his body left. Generally, most QB's are too "closed" and it results in mistakes. However, by modifying mechanics and opening up where you plant your feet when you're making the throw, you can actually make that play. Look at Fitzpatrick's mistakes last year and you can see plenty of issues like that. Throwing across his body; being in a bad position to try to make a throw; etc. Let's keep in mind two that 17 of his interceptions came in the 10 games AFTER he cracked his ribs. I don't know if you've ever cracked a rib, but honestly I'm not sure how he was even getting it in the air.

I am sick of this cracked rib thing, if he was legitinately hurt that bad, there is no way he would have been cleared to play. This Bills had given him huge money, if there was a risk for him to play he would not have. It is shameful for Gailey to have played a guy who be that hurt.

 

You are way over exaggerating the injury.

 

You can also keep in mind that he has a weak arm and canno play at all in November and December, that is his history, not just last season.

 

Best case for the playoffs is he gets hurt and Young plays.

[San-O]

Part of it is mechanics and part of it is decision making. At the end of the day, he was trying to make throws that his mechanics didn't allow him to make. As Lee explained it in an interview, you generally don't want a QB for example rolling right and throwing across his body left. Generally, most QB's are too "closed" and it results in mistakes. However, by modifying mechanics and opening up where you plant your feet when you're making the throw, you can actually make that play. Look at Fitzpatrick's mistakes last year and you can see plenty of issues like that. Throwing across his body; being in a bad position to try to make a throw; etc. Let's keep in mind two that 17 of his interceptions came in the 10 games AFTER he cracked his ribs. I don't know if you've ever cracked a rib, but honestly I'm not sure how he was even getting it in the air.

 

 

Right, some of both. Hopefully the new QB coach will help, as some including Fitz had stated.

 

I've never cracked a rib, however had injured/torn cartilage a couple times, and I am rather suspicious of the rib injury

myself.

[Luxy312]

I am sick of this cracked rib thing, if he was legitinately hurt that bad, there is no way he would have been cleared to play. This Bills had given him huge money, if there was a risk for him to play he would not have. It is shameful for Gailey to have played a guy who be that hurt.

 

You are way over exaggerating the injury.

 

You can also keep in mind that he has a weak arm and canno play at all in November and December, that is his history, not just last season.

 

Best case for the playoffs is he gets hurt and Young plays.

 

Young is a mental midget. Not buying that. Be sick of it if you want to. Lee is a hell of a QB coach and will help him improve from where he was.

[paintmyhouse]

Hilarious? A "sad effort?"

 

eball uses stats and actual numbers to make his point and you blather in return.

 

Seriously. Stop trolling.

 

Dude I post real stats and your same sorry excuse is that they are one sided, so go ahead and give your little friend a hug. His "real" numbers are 10 years old, if you cannot see the game is different now then you really should not be talking about football, you are not qualified. I am not trolling. I give real numbers too.

 

Fitz in November and Decemeber he has 39 TDs and 47 INTs, he has 57.9 completion percentage, he has 6.17 yards per attempt, he has 192 yards passing a game, that is is career, I went through the games. That is a 70.4 QB rating, I was wrong, he actually did make it 70.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FitzRy00.htm

 

He is a bad player, and Gailey does him no favors at all by passing as much as he does.

[SactoBillFan]

I am sick of this cracked rib thing, if he was legitinately hurt that bad, there is no way he would have been cleared to play. This Bills had given him huge money, if there was a risk for him to play he would not have. It is shameful for Gailey to have played a guy who be that hurt.

 

You are way over exaggerating the injury.

 

You can also keep in mind that he has a weak arm and canno play at all in November and December, that is his history, not just last season.

 

Best case for the playoffs is he gets hurt and Young plays.

 

Are you related to the crayon eater?