BiggieScooby Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I am a recovering Liberal who has been turned by Herman Cain. Here is why, I love the 9 9 9 plan! 9% corporate tax - cutting the Top Business Tax Rate from 35% to 9% will help businesses create more jobs. 9% individual tax rate - cutting from 35% to 9% for all is fair, not class warfare. Yes the rich will pay less in taxes, but that will allow the wealthy to save more on taxes so they can create more jobs. 47% of all Americans currently pay 0% Federal Income Tax actually pay Social Security and Medicare Tax known as Payroll Taxes 6.65% of their income. Now they will be paying 9%, which is only 2.35% more than what they currently play. These folks would lose Social Security taxed at(4.2%) and Medicare taxed at (1.45%), their employer also pays this same percentage. The 9 9 9 Plan eliminate these taxes, and therefore these "social" programs and would shift the burden to the individual. The state, church, charity and business would replace the Federal Social Security & Medicare. 9% federal sales tax - this tax known as consumption tax will encourage people who don't make much money to save and think twice before they do. To recap this will reward people who work and penalize those that don't. There are plenty of jobs out there especially after we deport all the 12 million illegal aliens who are working jobs at below minimum wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I am a recovering Liberal who has been turned by Herman Cain. Here is why, I love the 9 9 9 plan! 9% corporate tax - cutting the Top Business Tax Rate from 35% to 9% will help businesses create more jobs. 9% individual tax rate - cutting from 35% to 9% for all is fair, not class warfare. Yes the rich will pay less in taxes, but that will allow the wealthy to save more on taxes so they can create more jobs. 47% of all Americans currently pay 0% Federal Income Tax actually pay Social Security and Medicare Tax known as Payroll Taxes 6.65% of their income. Now they will be paying 9%, which is only 2.35% more than what they currently play. These folks would lose Social Security taxed at(4.2%) and Medicare taxed at (1.45%), their employer also pays this same percentage. The 9 9 9 Plan eliminate these taxes, and therefore these "social" programs and would shift the burden to the individual. The state, church, charity and business would replace the Federal Social Security & Medicare. 9% federal sales tax - this tax known as consumption tax will encourage people who don't make much money to save and think twice before they do. To recap this will reward people who work and penalize those that don't. There are plenty of jobs out there especially after we deport all the 12 million illegal aliens who are working jobs at below minimum wage. Not that it affects me personally but the 9% sales tax will push consumers towards the black market. The tax is also regressive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Not that it affects me personally but the 9% sales tax will push consumers towards the black market. The tax is also regressive... Wow... Americans are a lost cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I am a recovering Liberal who has been turned by Herman Cain. Here is why, I love the 9 9 9 plan! 9% corporate tax - cutting the Top Business Tax Rate from 35% to 9% will help businesses create more jobs. 9% individual tax rate - cutting from 35% to 9% for all is fair, not class warfare. Yes the rich will pay less in taxes, but that will allow the wealthy to save more on taxes so they can create more jobs. 47% of all Americans currently pay 0% Federal Income Tax actually pay Social Security and Medicare Tax known as Payroll Taxes 6.65% of their income. Now they will be paying 9%, which is only 2.35% more than what they currently play. These folks would lose Social Security taxed at(4.2%) and Medicare taxed at (1.45%), their employer also pays this same percentage. The 9 9 9 Plan eliminate these taxes, and therefore these "social" programs and would shift the burden to the individual. The state, church, charity and business would replace the Federal Social Security & Medicare. 9% federal sales tax - this tax known as consumption tax will encourage people who don't make much money to save and think twice before they do. To recap this will reward people who work and penalize those that don't. There are plenty of jobs out there especially after we deport all the 12 million illegal aliens who are working jobs at below minimum wage. Here's the problems: 1. This affords the federal government a new tax. They have abused every single tax vehicle they have ever created. The federal income tax used to be 15%, for only what those that would be billionaires today. At the time, most people said "well that's OK, they can afford it". Look how much they FUBARed that. We can't trust that they won't FUBAR the 9% sales tax. We can't. 2. It's regressive, and therefore easily attacked. It will cost a TON of political capital to withstand the "you are taxing poor people more" attacks that we will hear from the media and then Democrats every day, all the time. Here's some potential solutions: 1. The only way 999 works is if we pass a Constitutional amendment that either locks in 9%, meaning another amendment would be required to adjust it. Or, we build in some sort of "emergency" contingency that requires a 2/3 majority in the House, etc., for things like catastrophe, war, etc. This way, you reassure the Ron Paul people and the Tea Party people that you aren't casually adding a new tax. 2. The cool part here is that 9% income is separate from 9% sales. You could very easily convince people that the income part can be made progressive, depending on the economy. Meanwhile the sales can be adjusted separately. IF you do #1 to cap the max %, then you can allow Congress to adjust the two individual taxes as needed. In all cases, the corporate 9 is NEVER allowed to be touched. This way, you take that argument away from the left. If Democrats are in power and they decide low middle poor need help: Ok, we will reduce sales to 5% for grocery stores, home improvement and clothing, cut their income tax to 2%, and we will raise all sin stuff, and all luxury stuff to 10%". If you want that, you vote for democrats. If not, you vote Republican. 3. No matter what happens, every tax adjustment expires after 1 year, and, if not replaced, everything goes back to 999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I've been thinking about this plan a little more and I have added in a few things that would make it a bit more palpable. Income tax rate= Instead of taxing 9% to everyone, have it broken off to four subsections 3% for low income 7% for middle 10% upper income earners 13% for the wealthy National Sales tax Essentials such as food (grocery food, not dining),rentals, medicine etc should be excluded Gasoline and utilities 4% Corporate taxes stay at 9% Something likethis would make his plan less regressive, and would at least have some sort of a progressive tax rate on incomes, which would give it a much better shot of getting bipartisan support. Also the exclusions and deductions in the National Sales tax would be offset with the increases from the upper income and wealthy income taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Not that it affects me personally but the 9% sales tax will push consumers towards the black market. The tax is also regressive... Wow... Americans are a lost cause. You do know that meazza is a Canuck right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 As i live in a "40-15-20" country sometimes i just wonder why i don't just lay on the floor and wait for the state to take care of me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 As i live in a "40-15-20" country sometimes i just wonder why i don't just lay on the floor and wait for the state to take care of me... The state needs willing victims to survive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 As i live in a "40-15-20" country sometimes i just wonder why i don't just lay on the floor and wait for the state to take care of me... Floors can be uncomfortable. You should lay on the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Floors can be uncomfortable. You should lay on the bed. my "made in china" bought with a tax discount bed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 As i live in a "40-15-20" country sometimes i just wonder why i don't just lay on the floor and wait for the state to take care of me... Because you might get run over by rioters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Because you might get run over by rioters... Rioters? where? Everyday on TV you have leaders from the left telling us that "enough is enough" and that the "people is angry and asking for radical changes" and i have never seen a fall season (the usual french season for social mess) with so few demonstrations and strikes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Not that it affects me personally but the 9% sales tax will push consumers towards the black market. The tax is also regressive... If by regressive you mean fair or even, then yes. I've been thinking about this plan a little more and I have added in a few things that would make it a bit more palpable. Income tax rate= Instead of taxing 9% to everyone, have it broken off to four subsections 3% for low income 7% for middle 10% upper income earners 13% for the wealthy National Sales tax Essentials such as food (grocery food, not dining),rentals, medicine etc should be excluded Gasoline and utilities 4% Corporate taxes stay at 9% Something likethis would make his plan less regressive, and would at least have some sort of a progressive tax rate on incomes, which would give it a much better shot of getting bipartisan support. Also the exclusions and deductions in the National Sales tax would be offset with the increases from the upper income and wealthy income taxes. This distroys the simplicity of the tax code. Once you start sticking in special rates and exceptions (which is already being proposed: 2nd hand products are tax free to help the poor, and buying US materials are deductible to strengthen domestic manufacturing), you wind up on the slope of a complicated tax code where everybody suspects that the guy with the best accountant wins. Also, it gives up on what should be a seminal question: why should *rates* be progressive? Isn't it enough already that the more you make the more you pay? Shouldn't we be treated equally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 If by regressive you mean fair or even, then yes. I said regressive, not fair. I'm not here to define what fair is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I think there are a lot of things to like about both 999 and Herman Cain, but somebody told me last night that 999 would give the federal government the ability to tax states. I'm not sure I like that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) If by regressive you mean fair or even, then yes. This distroys the simplicity of the tax code. Once you start sticking in special rates and exceptions (which is already being proposed: 2nd hand products are tax free to help the poor, and buying US materials are deductible to strengthen domestic manufacturing), you wind up on the slope of a complicated tax code where everybody suspects that the guy with the best accountant wins. Also, it gives up on what should be a seminal question: why should *rates* be progressive? Isn't it enough already that the more you make the more you pay? Shouldn't we be treated equally? Because disposable incomes matter much more as incomes go down. I could go into a long explanation as to why regressiveness matters and how it would impact our economy negatively, but frankly I just don't have it in me today to do so. So the initial statement that I made in this post pretty much says it all. And no, it doesn't complicate it that much at all. I don't see how one could use food, gasoline or their utility bill as a massive tax shelter to avoid taxes. Also, on a sidenote, when you see that his plan gets savaged over the next couple weeks, you'll see what I mean, even though you still won't agree with me. I said regressive, not fair. I'm not here to define what fair is. Good point, using the word "fair" sounds like a play straight out of the liberal playbook. Edited October 14, 2011 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I like Herman Cain and I like parts of his plan. I just have a few questions that I hope he answers: 1. Several exemptions have been added recently to his flat income tax model. Will this continue? Does it complicate what is supposed to be a transparent model? 2. How does he address international sourcing of components, and products that have a global developmental process? 3. How will he guard against his flat tax model devolving into a Value Added Tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I like Herman Cain and I like parts of his plan. I just have a few questions that I hope he answers: 1. Several exemptions have been added recently to his flat income tax model. Will this continue? Does it complicate what is supposed to be a transparent model? 2. How does he address international sourcing of components, and products that have a global developmental process? 3. How will he guard against his flat tax model devolving into a Value Added Tax? Do you have a link to these exemptions? I would be interested in reading them if you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) Do you have a link to these exemptions? I would be interested in reading them if you. I was reading in the Washington Times recently that he would exempt any used goods (including homes), allow businessness to deduct new equipment purchases from their 9% corporate income tax responsibility, and preserve the deduction for charitable donations. Not saying that I don't agree; it's just that exemptions, exceptions and interpretations of who qualifies is part of the reason that the current tax code is so convoluted. I'm hoping that 999 is not a slippery slope. I don't have a link but I'll try to locate one for ya this afternoon. Edited October 14, 2011 by Juror#8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 If Cain doesn't win the nomination, I hope he would accept a cabinet position. He seems like a good man with some good ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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