Pat Williams, 3 year $13 million deal

[jack_spikes]

 

Well, we did get a Super Bowl winning QB in return..

 

Sort of..

 

Tom Flores was a QB for the Raiders before the trade. And later, as HC, his Raiders (with Chandler#81) beat Philly in the SB.

 

So we got that goin' for us..

In that trade, we also gave Oakland Glenn Bass, a good hands, fast receiver who was also a great downfield blocker, for Art Powell, a loud mouth locker room cancer.

[crazyDingo]

On the bright side, at least the Bills got some sweet new uniforms from old Whitey.

 

Nicely, done, Tom. You are due to get another NFL job any time...yep...any time at all...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

In that lone particular instance, yes. But the fact is that Ralph was a meddling owner for 90% of his 50 years. The one time he wasn't was, as mentioned above, when he hired the big name guy at the time, Tom Donahoe, who demanded full control. Ralph took an uncharacteristic back seat and gave TD the Presidency title and total control. It bit Ralph in the ass as TD became a tyrant, alienated a lot of people, hired some bad coaches and made some questionable personnel decisions. When Ralph got rid of him, he went back to his meddling ways.

And to back up this assertion, one of Ralph's complaints upon letting Donahoe go was that Old Whitey never returned his phone calls.

[Red]

I think one of the things that has set the Bills apart from more successful organizations over the past 10 years (not in a good way) is their habit of relying too much on young players who they feel have more talent and will be better than the current ones, but are not at the moment they are thrust intot he lineup. If you look at good teams, they draft replacement players, while still holding ontot he veteran players who are to be replaced. While we just replace the player and hope the younger player comes into his own. I understand there's a lot to be said for getting the player into the game to show what he can do, but I think doing that to a young player (any position) too early in his career actually damages their career path.

 

A perfect example of a team doing this with a player is the Steelers and Lawrence Timmons(sp?). The guy was a first round draft pick, but played second or thrid string for his first 2 to 3 seasons in the league. He basically played spot duty for them. Now he's starting and capable, whiel they never had a really big drop-off at that position during the switch-over.

 

Now look at the London Fletcher/Poz switch. They basically dumped the vet for the rookie in one offseason. Now Poz hasn't been terrible (he has been injured), but he certainly hasn't been a world-beater. There was definitely an initial drop-off between the two (and you could argue there still is depending on the situation).

 

I think the true value of having the vets still on the team with the younger, replacement players is that they develop a mentor-protege relationship, which allows the rookies to more easily assimilate intto the NFL. They have a more experienced player to assist them in learning the nuances of the scheme they are in (any football player who gets drafted can learna playbook, but it takes a while for them to really understand their role and be able to improvise within the scheme). I also think it goes past the actual on-field work and into the offseason program, weight lifting program, and practicing. The veteran players can show the younger guys how they should be working (i.e. practicing) and provide a benchmark for their progress. If it's all young guys, they might tend to have certain bad habits crop up that only experience tells you is a killer for the team. Not to mention the vets provide at least a baseline production on the field in the event that the rookies fall apart during the season.

 

Despite the fact that there probably isn't any one Bills fan who was really happy about the extension of Kelsey, this is the one good thing that can be taken out of it: The organization seems to be willing to spend money on players who are marked to be replaced, but serve a purpose as leaders, so they can help to endoctrinate the younger players with the culture of the club. Obviously if the culture is poor you might not want those vet players fostering that culture to be retained to train the younger kids, but, at least in Kelsey's case, I think the problem is more talent than attitude, which makes him somewhat of a good fit for this (hopefully) temporary role.

 

That's exactly my point!

 

Those dynasties always had a replacement waiting in the wings when the veteran retired or left via free agency. The Patriots were an amazing bunch. They kept losing receivers and defensive backs, running backs, and offensive lineman and simply plugged in free agents and rookies where needed. They never lost a step. Eventually ofcourse, it will wear out (as the Patriots are now showing consistent signs of their demise).

 

The Colts also had this going for a few years, only to have free agency and retirement begin to take their effects on the roster. And that is even WITH Bill Polian as GM. All that money in Manning has sacrificed the defense.

 

Heck, even the Bills had it nice for a few years. Wolford leaves, no problem we've got Fina. Ritcher retires? We've got Ruben Brown. Kelso and Smith retire and leave, we've got Henry Jones and Kurt Schulz.

 

That is the reason why the Bills have really sucked this past decade: they make 1 step forward, then take 2-3 steps back. Example: Using 2 first round draft picks in 3 years for QB's that failed (Bledsoe and Losman). Trading back into the first round for John McCargo. Selecting Maybin instead of Oher or Orakpo. Drafting Whitner over Ngata. Allowing Fletcher, Williams, and Winfield to walk without grooming their replacements.

 

I'll say it again. With shrewd drafting and some free agent signings, this would be an incredible defense: Not letting Cameron Wake go to Miami. Drafting Ngata. Drafting Orakpo. Keeping Fletcher, Pat Williams, and Antoine Winfield. Who could run on us with Big Pat and Ngata in the middle with Kyle Williams filling in? Winfield on the edge, and Fletcher sideline to sideline. Cameron Wake, Schobel, and Orakpo rushing the passer?

 

We'd be a different team.

 

The thing that really stings to me, is that those guys WANTED to stay, and the moves are so slight and were all in the realm of the possible.

[Mr_Blizzard]

That's exactly my point!

 

Those dynasties always had a replacement waiting in the wings when the veteran retired or left via free agency. The Patriots were an amazing bunch. They kept losing receivers and defensive backs, running backs, and offensive lineman and simply plugged in free agents and rookies where needed. They never lost a step. Eventually ofcourse, it will wear out (as the Patriots are now showing consistent signs of their demise).

 

The Colts also had this going for a few years, only to have free agency and retirement begin to take their effects on the roster. And that is even WITH Bill Polian as GM. All that money in Manning has sacrificed the defense.

 

Heck, even the Bills had it nice for a few years. Wolford leaves, no problem we've got Fina. Ritcher retires? We've got Ruben Brown. Kelso and Smith retire and leave, we've got Henry Jones and Kurt Schulz.

 

That is the reason why the Bills have really sucked this past decade: they make 1 step forward, then take 2-3 steps back. Example: Using 2 first round draft picks in 3 years for QB's that failed (Bledsoe and Losman). Trading back into the first round for John McCargo. Selecting Maybin instead of Oher or Orakpo. Drafting Whitner over Ngata. Allowing Fletcher, Williams, and Winfield to walk without grooming their replacements.

 

I'll say it again. With shrewd drafting and some free agent signings, this would be an incredible defense: Not letting Cameron Wake go to Miami. Drafting Ngata. Drafting Orakpo. Keeping Fletcher, Pat Williams, and Antoine Winfield. Who could run on us with Big Pat and Ngata in the middle with Kyle Williams filling in? Winfield on the edge, and Fletcher sideline to sideline. Cameron Wake, Schobel, and Orakpo rushing the passer?

 

We'd be a different team.

 

The thing that really stings to me, is that those guys WANTED to stay, and the moves are so slight and were all in the realm of the possible.

 

Yup that's the stuff that drives me crazy thinking about it. To this day, I wonder if we had kept Smerlas and John Kidd on our roster in 1990, I think we win the Superbowl. Tuten was not a good punter and we were pretty strong on "D", but not that great against the run. Could have made all kinds of difference that year..

[Dawgg]

I remember Marv Levy was doing color commentary for one of the preseason games after Pat Williams was let go and he was astonished that such a thing could happen.

Well, Marv, a lot of people are astonished that one could draft such underachievers as McCargo, Marshawn Lynch, and sign retreads like Peerless Price and Tutan Reyes.

 

**** happens, I guess.

 

<cue the "figurehead" defense>

[billsintaiwan]

I still can't get past the CookieGilchrist trade. Never got over it.

 

i stopped following the sabres after the tom barrasso trade. really.

[Tcali]

I know this has been beaten to death but we let big Pat walk for a 3 year $13 million dollar deal (he said he wouldve taken even less)and we just signed Kelsay to a 4 year $24 million dollar deal. Talk about organizational inconsistency.

 

I don't care who your GM is at the time, if you have an astute owner he doesn't let that type of athlete and team leader leave to save a few peanuts. I understand letting Clements and even Winfield walk because of the FA money they wanted, but I feel embarassed for Ralph and how disconnected he has been to his team for so long now when you look at moves like big Pat's.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and yes he was getting older and at that questionable age for performance and durability, but he didn't want a long term deal anyway or crazy upfront money.

 

I don't expect an NFL owner to be a talent judge or a financial expert, but you need them to be involved to the point that players feel some loyalty to them and vice versa. I hope our next owner brings this to the organization.

 

I agree with you. I still find the kelsay extension very disturbing.

A bad organization makes more poor decisions than good ones.-And the Bills have been phenomenally inept over most of their 50 year history w/ the exception of the Polian years,the couple of Knox yrs and the couple of saban years.Naturally Ralph either fired or made the work environment intolerable for these guys.--The amount of bad decisions this organization makes dwarfs the amount of good moves they make.-We obviously need LBs and DEs this draft.We all hope some of that gets done.But Kelsay was extended under Nix's watch---so we can't be confident that we won't draft another complete fraud like Maybin or average players like Poz or Whitner with valuable high picks.