Aaron Maybin is playing out of position

[Punch]

Agree. Look at London Fletcher. He is smaller than Maybin, went undrafted out of John Carroll College, yet he has been in the NFL for 13 years without ever missing a game. Coaches love him because he brings it. He has been a captain on every team he was on. He had a SB ring, pro bowls, 1000-ish tackles and lots of big plays.

 

I look at Maybin and I don't see anything.

Comparing 13 seasons of NFL accomplishments to those of a 22 year old kid that should still be in college like Maybin is not really an apt comparison. I hate hate hated the draft pick and don't necessarily feel he will ever live up to expectations--- but if you're going to compare him to London Fletcher it should be in the proper context:

 

Fletcher only started one game his rookie year and contributed next to nothing overall (just like Maybin). And although he attended a Division III school he did stay for 4 years (unlike Maybin and part of why he was a terrible draft choice). Fletcher did start at the beginning of his 2nd season but didn't exactly light the league on fire. Fletcher had 2 extra years of college experience and a full year of physical development on Aaron Maybin.

 

If anything, this comparison says the Bills should give him time to develop rather than cut him outright, because he could potentially blossom into an NFL player as Fletcher did--- the expectations are just much higher for the 11th pick in the draft than they are for a DIII hopeful. Again, I'm not optimistic that it will happen but I'm not going to rush to toss him to the side.

[LancasterSteve]

Ever heard of "denial"?

 

Need to accept the fact that "Maybe" can't play on this level... unless it's at ball boy. He won't even be on an NFL roster after this season.

 

If Maybin had been a 4th or 5th round pick, he'd have been gone by now. The only reason the Bills are even holding on to him is because of their investment as the 11th pick.

 

If he were worth a flying crap at all, he'd have shown some "flashes" by now. And, I don't mean "flashing" by an OT 10 yards beyond the QB. There is just nothing there to indicate he can play... even on special teams.

 

Accept the fact that he does not want to play this game. He does not have the toughness nor interest.

 

 

When Maybin was inactive on Sunday, that wasn't a message. That was his ticket out of town being punched.

 

The chance of Maybin being with the Bills next year are slim to none per Chris Brown (his opinion) at the Bills Booster meeting tonight.

 

I also asked Chris Brown to confirm what I had heard from someone else in the organization that both the Maybin and Whitner picks were made by Jauron. His response was that Marv Levy was not your typical GM and that there was a void at the top in personnell decisions. Dick Jauron took control and filled this void, so yes he made the Whitner and Maybin picks. I have no way of knowing this and didn't have a chance to ask Chris Brown a follow-up question; who stacked the draft boards...Jauron and Levy, with or without help from Tom Modrack or other scouts or Jauron and Russ Brandon..help from Modrack or other scouts? I do know that Tom Modrack was not in the Bills draft warroom when the Maybin pick was made. Jauron didn't want Tom Modrack around. Some day when I have a chance to talk with Tom Modrack, IM going to ask him if Jauron drafted any players that he had recommended.

Buddy Nix as long as I've known him has been a striaght shooter who doesnt lie or beat around the bush. The Bills have hired two more scouts and at least 2-3 more are needed. The purge of scouts that Tom Donahoe started has really hurt this team

[Sisyphean Bills]

So your advocating dropping a 1st rd pick that was deemed 1st round worthy by all analysts

"All analysts" is factually incorrect.

(yes, of course they can be wrong) and replacing him with players who "can" contribute. I'm assuming you mean adding guys via FA which makes no sense because a) our GM has already ruled out that approach and b) any FAs that do happen to be signed during this rebuilding process are stop gaps at best.

What the !@#$ are you talking about?

 

The GM has already ruled out getting better talent? Got a link to that? What sort of moron GM says he's not going to upgrade talent on an 0-6 team?!?

 

OK, you mean Nix said he's not going to bring in top free agents. Big deal. Reggie Torbor was a free agent, not a top free agent, and he's already well ahead of Maybin on the depth chart. So, your point doesn't hold any water whatsoever.

 

But, no, I didn't mean go out and go crazy in free agency just to replace a guy that is 50-something on your roster. Why do that? An undrafted free agent might actually be an upgrade to Maybin at this point. Is it not clear that he's playing himself off the roster?

 

And, that UDFA doesn't have to come today. I never said that Maybin had to be cut immediately. I have nothing against him coming to practices for the rest of the season. If he improves, fine. If he doesn't, well, he's a bust, which I said he probably would be minutes after he was drafted on this board. None of that means he gets a free ride into the starting lineup though.

Do you want Maybin who in theory has potential and is still owed lots of money, or do you want more Akin Ayodele and Reggie Torbors?

What the !@#$ are you talking about?

 

The only important thing about his contract is the guaranteed money, which he will make no matter what -- that's what they mean by the word guaranteed. But, that's for damn sure not a reason to rush him into the starting lineup. Unless you're an ignorant tool who is trying to lose games and the confidence of the rest of the team.

It's easy to spend other people's money, but no owner will cut lose a big investment in just two years cause he sucks. What's the point, you can pay him his guaranteed 16mil over two years, a bitter pill indeed, or take a gamble and pay it over three years and hope he turns into something useful.

Sure. That's the only reason he is still here, btw. Nice to have you on board.

I'm down on Maybin just like the next guy but to assume we'll get anything better in the short-term w/ our drafting history and no-free agency approach is not sound thinking.

You're making **** up here. I never said cut him today. But, it is totally clear that the guy was given chances by this coaching staff to prove things to them. They tried him at OLB with his hand off the ground and he couldn't do it. They tried him as a DE in pre-season and he couldn't do it. The tried him as a pass rushing specialist and he couldn't do it. They played him on special teams and he couldn't do it.

 

And, yet there are still people that think if the coaches would just line him up with his hand off the ground, which they tried in training camp, he'd instantly be a good player. Talk to me about "sound thinking" there.

 

The die for this season is cast. We're past the trading deadline, etc. It is ridiculous to just give Maybin chances he hasn't earned and doesn't deserve. There are other players on the roster named Moats and Coleman that deserve to get a shot. Moats, in particular, has been working his ass off in practice and improving.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Sisyphean Bills

[Sisyphean Bills]

The chance of Maybin being with the Bills next year are slim to none per Chris Brown (his opinion) at the Bills Booster meeting tonight.

 

I also asked Chris Brown to confirm what I had heard from someone else in the organization that both the Maybin and Whitner picks were made by Jauron. His response was that Marv Levy was not your typical GM and that there was a void at the top in personnell decisions. Dick Jauron took control and filled this void, so yes he made the Whitner and Maybin picks. I have no way of knowing this and didn't have a chance to ask Chris Brown a follow-up question; who stacked the draft boards...Jauron and Levy, with or without help from Tom Modrack or other scouts or Jauron and Russ Brandon..help from Modrack or other scouts? I do know that Tom Modrack was not in the Bills draft warroom when the Maybin pick was made. Jauron didn't want Tom Modrack around. Some day when I have a chance to talk with Tom Modrack, IM going to ask him if Jauron drafted any players that he had recommended.

Buddy Nix as long as I've known him has been a striaght shooter who doesnt lie or beat around the bush. The Bills have hired two more scouts and at least 2-3 more are needed. The purge of scouts that Tom Donahoe started has really hurt this team

Thanks for the info, Steve. Yes, it is pretty clear what they think of Maybin's talent and where that train is headed.

 

It's a shame you didn't get to follow up on the Modrak questions. It seems surreal that a team would employ a VP of College Scouting and then the HC would ignore all of his input and make up his own draft board. Maybe Jauron just called Kiper to get the "good vibes" on players or something. And they gave all this power to a guy that was a walking disaster at shopping for groceries in Chicago? Nothing (and I mean that) would really be that surprising though.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Sisyphean Bills

[Hapless Bills Fan]

That may be the single smartest thing you've ever said here.

 

+1 When the man is right, he's right

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Jauron was coaching for his life last year and it showed. Steve's info doesn't surprise me at all. Jauron was looking for home run hitters last year and took control, since it was his neck on the line. He made the Maybin pick.

 

Aaron's astronomical single season numbers fit Jauron's "plan" and we know Jauron was enamored with speed guys. Jauron was a colossal failure without a real strategy for this team so he rolled the dice with gimmicks like AM.

 

Maybin needed at least another year in college. Maybe the lightbulb goes on and he corrects himself before he gets drummed out of the league, he's got time to try to turn it around. But i blame the wasted roster spot that Maybin currently occupies solely on Dick Jauron.

[EC-Bills]

Maybin's in the exact position he should be playing, PE (Pine End). Weight is irrelevant for this position.

[stony]

"All analysts" is factually incorrect.

 

What the !@#$ are you talking about?

 

The GM has already ruled out getting better talent? Got a link to that? What sort of moron GM says he's not going to upgrade talent on an 0-6 team?!?

 

OK, you mean Nix said he's not going to bring in top free agents. Big deal. Reggie Torbor was a free agent, not a top free agent, and he's already well ahead of Maybin on the depth chart. So, your point doesn't hold any water whatsoever.

 

But, no, I didn't mean go out and go crazy in free agency just to replace a guy that is 50-something on your roster. Why do that? An undrafted free agent might actually be an upgrade to Maybin at this point. Is it not clear that he's playing himself off the roster?

 

And, that UDFA doesn't have to come today. I never said that Maybin had to be cut immediately. I have nothing against him coming to practices for the rest of the season. If he improves, fine. If he doesn't, well, he's a bust, which I said he probably would be minutes after he was drafted on this board. None of that means he gets a free ride into the starting lineup though.

 

What the !@#$ are you talking about?

 

The only important thing about his contract is the guaranteed money, which he will make no matter what -- that's what they mean by the word guaranteed. But, that's for damn sure not a reason to rush him into the starting lineup. Unless you're an ignorant tool who is trying to lose games and the confidence of the rest of the team.

 

Sure. That's the only reason he is still here, btw. Nice to have you on board.

 

You're making **** up here. I never said cut him today. But, it is totally clear that the guy was given chances by this coaching staff to prove things to them. They tried him at OLB with his hand off the ground and he couldn't do it. They tried him as a DE in pre-season and he couldn't do it. The tried him as a pass rushing specialist and he couldn't do it. They played him on special teams and he couldn't do it.

 

And, yet there are still people that think if the coaches would just line him up with his hand off the ground, which they tried in training camp, he'd instantly be a good player. Talk to me about "sound thinking" there.

 

The die for this season is cast. We're past the trading deadline, etc. It is ridiculous to just give Maybin chances he hasn't earned and doesn't deserve. There are other players on the roster named Moats and Coleman that deserve to get a shot. Moats, in particular, has been working his ass off in practice and improving.

 

Wow...I never insinuated that you said to cut him now. In your oft-repeated words, "what the !@#$ are you talking about."

 

First off, it is well documented that Buddy Nix has mentioned time and time again, he will forgo free agency in favor of the draft. I didn't think I needed to link common knowledge.

 

Your defending Reggie Torbor, who you claim is way ahead of Maybin on the depth charts when in reality Torbor has been rapidly losing playing time as well. He sucks, and defending him as a good FA pick-up is pointless. Miami fans can't thank us/laugh at us for having their re-tread on our roster.

 

You say an undrafted FA might be better than Maybin at this point. If its Coleman, play him all you like. I never said play Maybin over better qualified people. All I said, and I don't see a rebuttal for it, there is no harm letting the season ride out and seeing how he adjusts in the offseason. This makes financial and roster sense. Hell, if he doesn't do anything through training-camp next year, that might be good enough.

Edited October 27, 2010 by stony

[Sisyphean Bills]

Wow...I never insinuated that you said to cut him now. In your oft-repeated words, "what the !@#$ are you talking about."

 

First off, it is well documented that Buddy Nix has mentioned time and time again, he will forgo free agency in favor of the draft. I didn't think I needed to link common knowledge.

 

Your defending Reggie Torbor, who you claim is way ahead of Maybin on the depth charts when in reality Torbor has been rapidly losing playing time as well. He sucks, and defending him as a good FA pick-up is pointless. Miami fans can't thank us/laugh at us for having their re-tread on our roster.

 

You say an undrafted FA might be better than Maybin at this point. If its Coleman, play him all you like. I never said play Maybin over better qualified people. All I said, and I don't see a rebuttal for it, there is no harm letting the season ride out and seeing how he adjusts in the offseason. This makes financial and roster sense. Hell, if he doesn't do anything through training-camp next year, that might be good enough.

I never said cut Maybin immediately. I never said go out and throw big money at a big name free agent. I had no idea what you meant when you said the GM had said he was against bringing in better talent over the long haul, but gathered you must be referring to his claim he wasn't going at big name free agents. Someone should tell Buddy that big name free agents aren't interesting in coming to Buffalo.

 

The fact is Torbor is ahead of Maybin on the depth chart and he was a free agent signing. He played in the last game and here is the link.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/54954/BLT_Gamebook.pdf

I never made any claims about "Torbor greatness". Again: ?!? I'm not "defending" him. Your assessment that he "sucks" does nothing to dispute the points that he is ahead of Maybin on the depth chart and a free agent signing, which blow any argument that the Bills won't upgrade Maybin's position via free agency completely out of the water.

 

You came on here and argued that I wasn't using "sound thinking" with respect to Aaron Maybin when all I argued was that it doesn't make any sense to play a bad player and that Maybin is playing his way off the team. Arguments that the Bills spent (wasted) a lot of money on him and that he is young are irrelevant to playing him. See: JaMarcus Russell or other big busts. Arguments that he's got a good attitdue, a quick first step, and is "athletic" really don't support the contention that he would be an upgrade at LB nor that he could be moved quickly to TE.

 

You haven't made any plausible argument as to why the Bills should play a bad player over better players, haven't explained why Maybin would be a better player if he stood up at the snap of the ball, haven't explained why the Bills should keep a roster spot available for an inferior player over a better player long-term, and haven't defended why the Bills should do everything possible to develop Aaron Maybin because he was labeled as a talent by someone. Those were the talking points in discussion, not the army of straw-men. Hence: What the !@#$ are you talking about?

 

Instead, you agree with my original point that Maybin should, at best, ride the pine and prove he can do something on a football field to earn his playing time. And, if not, then the Bills should cut their losses and move on.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Sisyphean Bills

[stony]

I never said cut Maybin immediately. I never said go out and throw big money at a big name free agent. I had no idea what you meant when you said the GM had said he was against bringing in better talent over the long haul, but gathered you must be referring to his claim he wasn't going at big name free agents. Someone should tell Buddy that big name free agents aren't interesting in coming to Buffalo.

 

The fact is Torbor is ahead of Maybin on the depth chart and he was a free agent signing. He played in the last game and here is the link.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/54954/BLT_Gamebook.pdf

I never made any claims about "Torbor greatness". Again: ?!? I'm not "defending" him. Your assessment that he "sucks" does nothing to dispute the points that he is ahead of Maybin on the depth chart and a free agent signing, which blow any argument that the Bills won't upgrade Maybin's position via free agency completely out of the water.

 

You came on here and argued that I wasn't using "sound thinking" with respect to Aaron Maybin when all I argued was that it doesn't make any sense to play a bad player and that Maybin is playing his way off the team. Arguments that the Bills spent (wasted) a lot of money on him and that he is young are irrelevant to playing him. See: JaMarcus Russell or other big busts. Arguments that he's got a good attitdue, a quick first step, and is "athletic" really don't support the contention that he would be an upgrade at LB nor that he could be moved quickly to TE.

 

You haven't made any plausible argument as to why the Bills should play a bad player over better players, haven't explained why Maybin would be a better player if he stood up at the snap of the ball, haven't explained why the Bills should keep a roster spot available for an inferior player over a better player long-term, and haven't defended why the Bills should do everything possible to develop Aaron Maybin because he was labeled as a talent by someone. Those were the talking points in discussion, not the army of straw-men. Hence: What the !@#$ are you talking about?

 

Instead, you agree with my original point that Maybin should, at best, ride the pine and prove he can do something on a football field to earn his playing time. And, if not, then the Bills should cut their losses and move on.

 

There is some sort of disconnect going on.

 

I never attempted to. Whatever, an argument about Maybin is counterproductive at this point I suppose.

[BreezeMafia]

At his current size, I have no idea why the Bills coaches want him at Defensive End in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4. He's getting man handled by offensive tackles out there. And we don't know how to play him in a true 3-4 anyway.

 

He is 6'4" and he most likely weighs about 235-240. That puts him in the same category (size wise) as Keith Bulluck, Derrick Johnson (Chiefs), Brian Urlacher, Karlos Dansby, etc. I'm not saying he can play like these guys, but we should at least put him in a position to succeed.

 

If we're going to play a "heavy" 4-3 defense, I would line it up like this:

 

Kelsay - Stroud/Johnson - Williams/Troup - Edwards/Moats

 

Poz - Davis - Maybin

 

 

It's worth looking at the defense like this. Ayodele and Torbor don't seem to show up on Sundays anyway. I think we end up being better against the run with this lineup in the game. And we can take a look at whether Maybin has the skills to play in the open field at linebacker. Because he appears to have the athleticism to play football, I just don't know if he has the intangibles.

 

 

Yes he is. he was drafted with our team running a "4-3". we are now back to a "4-3". What he does have is speed. However, he is not strong and he does not yet know how to "hand fight" with O-Lineman, like what Jason Taylor had to master.

[LancasterSteve]

Thanks for the info, Steve. Yes, it is pretty clear what they think of Maybin's talent and where that train is headed.

 

It's a shame you didn't get to follow up on the Modrak questions. It seems surreal that a team would employ a VP of College Scouting and then the HC would ignore all of his input and make up his own draft board. Maybe Jauron just called Kiper to get the "good vibes" on players or something. And they gave all this power to a guy that was a walking disaster at shopping for groceries in Chicago? Nothing (and I mean that) would really be that surprising though.

 

Your welcome. They were spreading out the questions with all the Backers and just ran out of time before it was Jonathan Stupar's turn to speak. Nice kid BTW with good sense of humor.

 

Maybe Jauron read tea leaves or Kiper..take your pick; but he sure didn't look at the Ourlad's guide. They had Maybin as a third round projection. 11th best DE. Here is a bit on what they said about Maybin:

 

"Struggles to get off blocks. Lacks functional strength to separate and disengage the blocker. Can be manhandled and pushed up the field. Undisciplined in his play. NOT AN INSTINCTIVE PLAYER. May be a situation pass rusher only. Proj: third round"

 

And in Ourlad's Review after the draft:

 

"Aaron Maybin was a surprise selection at the eleventh pick for a variety of reasons. One, Chris Kelsey is undersized like Maybin and has an injury history that keeps him off the field. Secondly he lacks the strength to play the run and the ability to separate from hugh linemen."

 

I highly recommend "Ourlad's Guide" www.ourlads.com for anyone interested in the annual NFL Football Draft

[Punch]

"Struggles to get off blocks. Lacks functional strength to separate and disengage the blocker. Can be manhandled and pushed up the field. Undisciplined in his play. NOT AN INSTINCTIVE PLAYER. May be a situation pass rusher only. Proj: third round"

WOW, that sounds like an in-season review of his play the past 2 years, rather than a predraft scouting report... still so upset by Jauron being given control over the pick

[Thoner7]

I think we are seeign maybins last days as a Bill. I dont think he will be active again. I just have a hunch that with his benching, they are poising themselves to pick up Merriman. It makes too much sense not to.

[KD in CA]

I highly recommend "Ourlad's Guide" www.ourlads.com for anyone interested in the annual NFL Football Draft

 

Can you mail a copy to OBD before the next draft?

 

It's almost sickening to read that summary of Maybin. How can people that get paid millions of dollars to know this stuff miss something so obvious?

[tonyjustbcuz]

At his current size, I have no idea why the Bills coaches want him at Defensive End in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4. He's getting man handled by offensive tackles out there. And we don't know how to play him in a true 3-4 anyway.

 

He is 6'4" and he most likely weighs about 235-240. That puts him in the same category (size wise) as Keith Bulluck, Derrick Johnson (Chiefs), Brian Urlacher, Karlos Dansby, etc. I'm not saying he can play like these guys, but we should at least put him in a position to succeed.

 

If we're going to play a "heavy" 4-3 defense, I would line it up like this:

 

Kelsay - Stroud/Johnson - Williams/Troup - Edwards/Moats

 

Poz - Davis - Maybin

 

Only read the topic, but I don't think waterboy is included on the 53 man roster!

 

 

It's worth looking at the defense like this. Ayodele and Torbor don't seem to show up on Sundays anyway. I think we end up being better against the run with this lineup in the game. And we can take a look at whether Maybin has the skills to play in the open field at linebacker. Because he appears to have the athleticism to play football, I just don't know if he has the intangibles.

[LancasterSteve]

WOW, that sounds like an in-season review of his play the past 2 years, rather than a predraft scouting report... still so upset by Jauron being given control over the pick

 

Yep, I just went back and re-read it for the first time since the '09 draft and thought the same thing.

 

Sad that Ralph Wilson trusted Marv Levy to hire Jauron as his head coach. "The Ivy League Connection" for all their supposed smarts royally screwed this football team.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Your welcome. They were spreading out the questions with all the Backers and just ran out of time before it was Jonathan Stupar's turn to speak. Nice kid BTW with good sense of humor.

 

Maybe Jauron read tea leaves or Kiper..take your pick; but he sure didn't look at the Ourlad's guide. They had Maybin as a third round projection. 11th best DE. Here is a bit on what they said about Maybin:

 

"Struggles to get off blocks. Lacks functional strength to separate and disengage the blocker. Can be manhandled and pushed up the field. Undisciplined in his play. NOT AN INSTINCTIVE PLAYER. May be a situation pass rusher only. Proj: third round"

 

And in Ourlad's Review after the draft:

 

"Aaron Maybin was a surprise selection at the eleventh pick for a variety of reasons. One, Chris Kelsey is undersized like Maybin and has an injury history that keeps him off the field. Secondly he lacks the strength to play the run and the ability to separate from hugh linemen."

 

I highly recommend "Ourlad's Guide" www.ourlads.com for anyone interested in the annual NFL Football Draft

It's not very often you see a guy that is a red shirt sophomore and backup to start the college season, start less than a season's worth of college games, and become the #11 overall draft pick. Probably won't see it again for a long time, I bet.

[qdawg in philly]

Maybin's in the exact position he should be playing, PE (Pine End). Weight is irrelevant for this position.

Lmao!!!!!

[Lucien K]

 

"Struggles to get off blocks. Lacks functional strength to separate and disengage the blocker. Can be manhandled and pushed up the field. Undisciplined in his play. NOT AN INSTINCTIVE PLAYER. May be a situation pass rusher only. Proj: third round"

 

And in Ourlad's Review after the draft:

 

"Aaron Maybin was a surprise selection at the eleventh pick for a variety of reasons. One, Chris Kelsey is undersized like Maybin and has an injury history that keeps him off the field. Secondly he lacks the strength to play the run and the ability to separate from hugh linemen."

 

I highly recommend "Ourlad's Guide" www.ourlads.com for anyone interested in the annual NFL Football Draft

 

It is sickening how dead on that is. YouTube footage of his sacks at PSU, much like his stronger preseason play against weaker talent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQfKvO0a_WQ