It's time to extend Tom Donahoe

[Albany,n.y.]

I know a few weeks ago half this board wanted to fire the guy, but the bottom line is he has put us in a position to be a major player for Super Bowl XL in Detroit, Ralph's home town.

Sure his W-L record to date sucks, but the goal all along has been to bring a Super Bowl Championship to Buffalo and we're very close in the next 2-3 years. Looking over his drafts, undrafted free agents & NFL free agent pickups he's been as good as we could have possibly expected. Everyone makes some mistakes as GM, but the better ones don't back down in pursuit of a championship. His biggest mistake was Gregg Williams when he could have chosen John Fox (Lewis didn't want to be here). I can't view the Drew trade as a big mistake because he was trying to give his coach a fair shot at success and the top 2 QB prospects were gone before we drafted Mike Williams at 4.

Here are the guys who he brought in as rookies who are still on the roster, it's more impressive than most give him credit for:

2001: Clements, Schobel, Henry, Edwards, Jennings. He also signed some obscure punter from NFL Europe named Brian Moorman.

2002 (his worst of 4 years): M. Williams, Reed, Denney, Wire, Bannan, Thomas, Pucillo, Burns.

2003: McGahee, Kelsay,Crowell, McGee, Aiken, Haggan, Dorenbos, Also picked up ST dynamo Josh Stamer

2004: Evans, Losman, Anderson, Euhus, McFarland, J(F) Smith, Baker, Greer, Peters, Ritzman, S. Williams.

This year alone, 11 rookies (minus 1-Ritzman who is now on IR) are on the 53 man roster. Evans looks like a star, Euhus should be starting or be a major contributor next year, Baker, an undrafted FA is starting, Freddie Smith has a solid ST future, Losman, Anderson & Peters may be major players in a year or 2.

The 2003 draft is starting to look outstanding with McGahee approaching Superstar status, Kelsay playing solid ball, McGee a starting CB & KR star, Aiken becomming a solid #3 receiver because Moulds & Evans are so good.

The 2002 may have only Williams and 1 or 2 other reserves left when we reach the promised land.

Based on the 1st 3 rounds including some good trade downs for extra picks, 2001 rates as a solid draft.

If you take a look at the Polian years, 1986-1992, Donahoe rates pretty darn good on draft day. TD's 2002 draft is no worse than BP's 1989 or 1992 drafts.

 

Additionally TD has brought in the following NFL FAs who are starting:

Spikes, Posey, Fletcher, Milloy, Adams, Villarrial, Teague, Shelton (a find off the scrap heap). He also brought in M. Price, Vincent (who may still be a major contributor next year) & Lindell who the jury is still out on.

He hasn't spent millions for outright FA busts as others have done.

 

TD has us on the verge of being a dominant team, wait till next year really means something this time. He deserves an extension and the time is now.

[nodnarb]

great post. no arguments here.

[BillsSouth]

The 2002 draft was just horrible. And it was the draft we had the best draft slots of the ones TD was at the helm.

 

The 2001 draft is still the best one by a significant margin. Every pick in the first three rounds are playing or have played major roles in this team.

[Corp000085]

i say the jury's still out on TD, at best. i'll judge him in 10 years.

[Albany,n.y.]

Why?

We haven't made the playoffs with him here and, despite our recent success it doesn't look like we will this year.

 

Until we put together a FULL season of success, why should we extend him?

140416[/snapback]

 

He wasn't brought here to get us to barely qualify for the playoffs and then go out early like the Dolphins were doing during the JJ years and the early Wanny years. If you'd rather we were the Dolphins of the late 90's I have a different opinion. He has put together the foundation of a solid team for years to come. Maybe it has taken a little longer than expected, but the future is very bright. I'd hate to see a guy leave when his contract expires in a year from now because he took the bold path of building a championship team instead of an annual make the playoffs & exit quickly team. I believe he's got us on the verge of greatness, just like the 1987 Bills, I'd hate to see him not be around when the seeds he's planted bloom.

[CircleTheWagons]

No extension yet, although I think he is doing a pretty good job.

 

We have started to beat the average teams in the league and I would say that we are above average, but not by a lot.

 

We need to beat some good teams and win a couple of tough road games before I'm ready to say this team is going to the promised land.

 

Baltimore and New England are still painful to think about.

[CosmicBills]

He wasn't brought here to get us to barely qualify for the playoffs and then go out early like the Dolphins were doing during the JJ years and the early Wanny years.  If you'd rather we were the Dolphins of the late 90's I have a different opinion.   He has put together the foundation of a solid team for years to come.  Maybe it has taken a little longer than expected, but the future is very bright. I'd hate to see a guy leave when his contract expires in a year from now because he took the bold path of building a championship team instead of an annual make the playoffs & exit quickly team.  I believe he's got us on the verge of greatness, just like the 1987 Bills, I'd hate to see him not be around when the seeds he's planted bloom.

140427[/snapback]

 

The other thing I would throw into your post (which I agree alot with) is that a big reason the turn around is taking so long is because TD missed on Drew slightly. He expected (and so did I for one) Drew to come in and be the probowler he was in NE from the start. He didn't forsee a decline in Drew's performance.

 

This misjudgment, coupled with the poor offensive staff of Killdrive's, forced TD to go back to the drawing board at the QB position earlier than TD had expected. He obvioulsy didn't expect Drew to be the long term solution at QB, but he did expect a couple playoff runs from him.

 

Now, with a better offensive system in place, Drew has been decent to good for parts of this year. But a big upcoming hurdle this team will have to clear to reach the championship level you is how to handle JP without falling into another another "rebuilding" year.

 

Of course, if Drew continues to play as well as he has down this current stretch, the Bills should be in great shape heading into 2005 and a run at the Super Bowl isn't out of the question. But then you have to wonder...what happens in 2006? Say the Bills make it deep into the playoffs in 2005 with Drew as the starter...do you keep JP on the bench for another year? Or do you do what Cincy did and replace Drew with JP right then and there? And what effect will that have on the team's chemistry?

 

It's an interesting personel decision that will be coming up soon for TD. How he (and MM) handle that situation will be very telling.

[pm73]

I know a few weeks ago half this board wanted to fire the guy, but the bottom line is he has put us in a position to be a major player for Super Bowl XL in Detroit, Ralph's home town. 

Sure his W-L record to date sucks, but the goal all along has been to bring a Super Bowl Championship to Buffalo and we're very close in the next 2-3 years.  Looking over his drafts, undrafted free agents & NFL free agent pickups he's been as good as we could have possibly expected.  Everyone makes some mistakes as GM, but the better ones don't back down in pursuit of a championship.  His biggest mistake was Gregg Williams when he could have chosen John Fox (Lewis didn't want to be here).  I can't view the Drew trade as a big mistake because he was trying to give his coach a fair shot at success and the top 2 QB prospects were gone before we drafted Mike Williams at 4. 

Here are the guys who he brought in as rookies who are still on the roster, it's more impressive than most give him credit for:

2001: Clements, Schobel, Henry, Edwards, Jennings.  He also signed some obscure punter from NFL Europe named Brian Moorman. 

2002 (his worst of 4 years): M. Williams, Reed, Denney, Wire, Bannan, Thomas, Pucillo, Burns.

2003: McGahee, Kelsay,Crowell, McGee, Aiken, Haggan, Dorenbos, Also picked up ST dynamo Josh Stamer

2004: Evans, Losman, Anderson, Euhus, McFarland, J(F) Smith, Baker, Greer, Peters, Ritzman, S. Williams.

This year alone,  11 rookies (minus 1-Ritzman who is now on IR) are on the 53 man roster.  Evans looks like a star, Euhus should be starting or be a major contributor next year, Baker, an undrafted FA is starting, Freddie Smith has a solid ST future, Losman, Anderson & Peters may be major players in a year or 2. 

The 2003 draft is starting to look outstanding with McGahee approaching Superstar status, Kelsay playing solid ball, McGee a starting CB & KR star, Aiken becomming a solid #3 receiver because Moulds & Evans are so good. 

The 2002 may have only Williams and 1 or 2 other reserves left when we reach the promised land. 

Based on the 1st 3 rounds including some good trade downs for extra picks, 2001 rates as a solid draft. 

If you take a look at the Polian years, 1986-1992, Donahoe rates pretty darn good on draft day.  TD's 2002 draft is no worse than BP's 1989 or 1992 drafts.

 

Additionally TD has brought in the following NFL FAs who are starting:

Spikes, Posey, Fletcher, Milloy, Adams, Villarrial, Teague, Shelton (a find off the scrap heap). He also brought in M. Price, Vincent (who may still be a major contributor next year) & Lindell who the jury is still out on. 

He hasn't spent millions for outright FA busts as others have done.

 

TD has us on the verge of being a dominant team, wait till next year really means something this time.  He deserves an extension and the time is now.

140405[/snapback]

 

 

well done, i agree with almost everything. my one beef is rian lindell. in my mind the jury is back and the verdict is in. he sucks. he's just so inconsistant and really hasn't had ONE big time kick for us in the year and a half he's been here.

 

what really makes it worse is TD's first go round with the kicker. he brings in that waste jake arians who goes on to be the worst kicker the bills have had since at least i've been watching. then makes a good decision that anyone would be better so drops him and picked up an unknown named shayne graham. now SG wasn't great, but he wasn't awful. in fact i was starting to think that he could develop into something. i had about as much confidence in him as i did moorman at the time. then TD goes and replaces him with RL. well we all see how that has turned out. SG is becoming a top NFL kicker, and we just let him go to way overpay for a very very mediocre kicker.

 

I like all the moves you mentioned and I am all for TD sticking around but that was one move I did not like when he made it, and like even less now in hindsight.

[jarthur31]

Why?

We haven't made the playoffs with him here and, despite our recent success it doesn't look like we will this year.

 

Until we put together a FULL season of success, why should we extend him?

140416[/snapback]

 

 

I'm sure others were saying the same thing about Polian before 1988.

[Pete]

Great post Albany! You are spot on

[ajzepp]

Great post.....it's about time someone took the time to give TD the praise he deserves. I think it was Alaska Darin who made the comment that TD was both patient and smart, which is a big part of the reason he's a top notch GM. And as I've said all along, those who continue to focus on the ways TD has not been perfect will miss him when he's gone. He's a blessing to this team and he's a key component to establishing and maintaining us as a competitive team, which we are on the verge of becoming. The team has made great strides over the past 12 weeks. Unfortunately losing a few tight games early on has all but ruined our chances for the post season. But this team is on the verge of becoming a very, very good team. TD is largely responsible for that, and it's time some of you TD bashers recognize this.

[nodnarb]

people are so quick to cast aside the fact that in 3 years, donahoe rebuilt a defense that was #2 overall last season and is even better this season, in INTs, sacks, pressures, and every other conceivable stat. In a tougher schedule. The defense is stacked and poised to be good for many years.

 

Look around the league and tell me how many franchises went from a rebuilding year to a consistently dominating defense in 3 years, with long term, cap friendly contracts.

 

Mularkey will take the offense to the level that our defense and special teams are playing. And when we get there, watch out. We've seen it two weeks straight. Keep watching. Your support of Tom DOnahoe will crystalize.

[ATBNG]

Yikes. You guys are drinking the Kool-aid big time after those easy wins.

 

McGahee has been great but let's see how he holds up.

 

The Losman trade was still an embarassing fleece job.

 

The Bledsoe trade, and subsequent extension, were two huge errors.

 

He has put together a very good defense, but a lot of its key components (Adams, Milloy, Vincent, Fletcher) are getting up there quickly in age. None of the above four fall into the category of "bargains."

 

This year the specials have played well enough that he seems to have done better in terms of filling out the lower half of his roster.

 

I still say he is the fundamental problem with the team, and should be canned at the end of the year.

[CosmicBills]

The Losman trade was still an embarassing fleece job.

 

The Bledsoe trade, and subsequent extension, were two huge errors.

 

140562[/snapback]

 

So, let's just get this straight.

 

You say the trade for Drew was a "huge error". But you fault TD for trying to rectify it by making a move to get the best possible QB available in the draft for the cost of only 2 picks?

 

So how would you suggest he fix the QB problem one without getting a new QB?

You're getting him both ways. You can't do that and be fair.

 

Come on, use your head a little before making claims like that.

[ATBNG]

So, let's just get this straight.

 

You say the trade for Drew was a "huge error". But you fault TD for trying to rectify it by making a move to get the best possible QB available in the draft for the cost of only 2 picks?

 

So how would you suggest he fix the QB problem one without getting a new QB?

You're getting him both ways. You can't do that and be fair.

 

Come on, use your head a little before making claims like that.

140566[/snapback]

 

I think I am using my head and being completely fair.

 

I think there is a blind spot that solutions at the QB position have to be made in the first round of the draft. Warner (UDFA), Dilfer (1st, but available for much less at this point in his career), Brady (6th), Brad Johnson (9th), and Brady (6th) are your last five Super Bowl winning QB's. TD has expended two first round picks in four years on QB's and hasn't yet put together a team that is +.500.

 

Bledsoe was a huge error because he gave up too much for him considering that no one else seemed to be in the bidding, he really can't play at the level of his salary (divisional rival has no problem playing against him twice a year), he's at the end of his career, and he's too one-dimensional/athletically limited.

 

Losman was a huge error because he got fleeced on the trade in terms of value. Even if the Bills finish 9-7 and draft somewhere around 15th, you'll still have traded picks 15, 43 and 144 for pick 22, and that is a horrible, terrible, atrocious deal!

 

That type of management at that level is going to kill the team in the long run even if JP works out, because it seems to indicate that TD thinks he's smarter than all the other GM's, but his record indicates otherwise.

[JimBob2232]

Yikes. You guys are drinking the Kool-aid big time after those easy wins.

 

McGahee has been great but let's see how he holds up.

 

The Losman trade was still an embarassing fleece job.

 

The Bledsoe trade, and subsequent extension, were two huge errors.

 

He has put together a very good defense, but a lot of its key components (Adams, Milloy, Vincent, Fletcher) are getting up there quickly in age. None of the above four fall into the category of "bargains."

 

This year the specials have played well enough that he seems to have done better in terms of filling out the lower half of his roster.

 

I still say he is the fundamental problem with the team, and should be canned at the end of the year.

 

Perhaps many are "drinking the kool-aid" as you say, but I think this is the setiment that was out there to start the season. We always thought this team was close to greatness, but the first half of the season had us doubting TD, MM and the entire team. What we are seeing now is IMO, a return to where we thought we would be at this point.

 

The losman trade was not an "embarassing fleece job". Okay, so say we kept that first rounder. Now today we have only drew and shane matthews and some other random do-nothing third string guy. We would desperatly need someone to take over for drew. We go into this draft looking for a QB with a mid-round selection. Who do you take? Mel Kipers Big board of the top 25 draft eligible prospects includes ONE quarterback (charie frye of akron). Now who would you rather have? Honestly. Perhaps Leinert and Aaron Robers come out, but they will be top 5 picks, and we wouldnt have a chance at them anyway.

 

The drew blesdoe trade was, at the time, a great trade. We absolutley needed to get a good quarterback here, and drew was left high and dry in new england. The way drew played that first season here shows this was not a bad trade. The decline was unexpected and somewhat unexplainable. But one thing this trade did was re-energize the demoarlized fanbase who was about to see the team with AVP as its starter. Also, it showed the league we were making good strides to be competitive, and im sure this move (and others like it), contributed to the signing of guys like takeo spikes. The extension...Well...our hands were kinda tied. I didnt like it either, but on one hand we pay the guy a huge signing bonus and activate the rest of his 100 million dollar contract, or we cut him in november (which with the wya he was playing, might not have been a bad option at that point). The other thing you have to remember is that drew knows his time is limited here, and he still chose to sign an extension for a year he will probably be on the bench. This shows class and character, and he isnt a terrible backup either!

 

All in all, im happy with the personnel we have on this team. As you pointed out, our defense is getting up there in years and some of our young guys (clements) are coming up on FA here soon. My fear is that by the time the O comes around, the D will look like Kansas Citys... But at least thats more exciting football to watch than what we saw the first 9 weeks.

[CosmicBills]

 

Losman was a huge error because he got fleeced on the trade in terms of value. Even if the Bills finish 9-7 and draft somewhere around 15th, you'll still have traded picks 15, 43 and 144 for pick 22, and that is a horrible, terrible, atrocious deal!

 

140571[/snapback]

 

It is not an atrocious deal when you consider the QBs available in FA this coming season and the QBs in the draft. There are none that have the potential that JP does. Zero.

 

To give up 2 picks and address your teams biggest weakness (as percieved by some) is nothing. If JP turns out to be a probowler would you still consider this an awful trade?

[Pete]

 

Losman was a huge error because he got fleeced on the trade in terms of value. Even if the Bills finish 9-7 and draft somewhere around 15th, you'll still have traded picks 15, 43 and 144 for pick 22, and that is a horrible, terrible, atrocious deal!

 

 

140571[/snapback]

 

 

That is not a horrible, terrible, atrocious deal if Losman turns to be Brett Favre. Let the kid play for a couple seasons before you say we got ripped off. JP is an unknown quantity to TBD but TD thought enough of him to warrant the move.

[CosmicBills]

That is not a horrible, terrible, atrocious deal if Losman turns to be Brett Favre.  Let the kid play for a couple seasons before you say we got ripped off.  JP is an unknown quantity to TBD but TD thought enough of him to warrant the move.

140574[/snapback]

 

Amen, brother.

[MikeInRoch]

You are failing to consider also that the #22 is a YEAR earlier. How many draft picks is it worth to have a QB with an extra year experience?