The Council of Trent

[It's in My Blood]

I know I know, just me...but hear me out first...

 

Okay, first...he's only started 32 games and is one of the most sacked QB's in the league because of our horrible O-Line...going first on statistics...has he been that bad?...

 

Trent Edwards: First 32 starts....61 comp %...........5498 yards....24 tds/25 ints.......3 percent of his passes are picked

 

Joe Montana: First 32 starts.....64 comp %............5456 yards...35 tds/22 ints.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Tom Brady: First 32 starts......63 comp %............6,613 yards.....46 tds/26 ints....4 percent of his passes were picked

(and yes Brady threw LESSSSS than Trent has in his first 32 starts making his int percentage a bit higher)

 

Steve Young: First 32 starts.....53 comp %.........4,467 yards.......24/24.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Phillip Rivers: First 32 starts.......58 comp %.......5,111 yards......33/18.......2 percent of his passes were picked

 

Drew Brees: First 32 starts........58 comp %.......5,612 yards......28/31.......5 percent of his passes were picked

 

 

Okay so they are pretty comparable numbers to some GREAT QB's...now I'm not suggesting that Trent is ANY OF THOSE...but what I'm suggesting is that we still haven't seen enough evidence to say he isn't either...

 

Outside of statistics...he has a fluid motion and is still young in the game....he has a decent arm and when given time can do some damage...his two concusions have him gun shy back there, but who can blame him?...now enter Chan's offense...run first presumably because we cannot draft a stud and there are none available unless we pry D Mac from philly...so a run first ball club will rarely throw it around to millions of different wide outs...one deep threat and TE's and Backs out of the backfield....that's Trent's staple isn't it?...he never got on the same page with T.O....and since he's gone....I don't think Trent will be pressured to throw it more than twenty times a game except on rare occasions...

 

He is the ultimate efficient QB...to a fault sometimes...but in a run first defensive team...isn't that what you want?...I think it would be a mistake to draft a QB high in THIS draft, and I think with a Run stuffing DT and a couple OT's...you have a whole new ball game where Trent is concerned...he's intelligent and just needs to get over being gun shy...which I think he can do...now, again...I am not saying he's pro bowl material, but I think he is capable...and I think that we do not have enough evidence to criticize him yet...not when his numbers are comparable...his win loss is comparable as well to some of them...and I think he can be much more effective with a better O-Line

 

 

What sets Trent Edwards apart from those other Qbs , is that the other Qbs have balls.

[Celtic_soulja]

And other QB's have Tackles that can block for them...

[bbillyfootballcoach]

I know I know, just me...but hear me out first...

 

Okay, first...he's only started 32 games and is one of the most sacked QB's in the league because of our horrible O-Line...going first on statistics...has he been that bad?...

 

Trent Edwards: First 32 starts....61 comp %...........5498 yards....24 tds/25 ints.......3 percent of his passes are picked

 

Joe Montana: First 32 starts.....64 comp %............5456 yards...35 tds/22 ints.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Tom Brady: First 32 starts......63 comp %............6,613 yards.....46 tds/26 ints....4 percent of his passes were picked

(and yes Brady threw LESSSSS than Trent has in his first 32 starts making his int percentage a bit higher)

 

Steve Young: First 32 starts.....53 comp %.........4,467 yards.......24/24.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Phillip Rivers: First 32 starts.......58 comp %.......5,111 yards......33/18.......2 percent of his passes were picked

 

Drew Brees: First 32 starts........58 comp %.......5,612 yards......28/31.......5 percent of his passes were picked

 

 

Okay so they are pretty comparable numbers to some GREAT QB's...now I'm not suggesting that Trent is ANY OF THOSE...but what I'm suggesting is that we still haven't seen enough evidence to say he isn't either...

 

Outside of statistics...he has a fluid motion and is still young in the game....he has a decent arm and when given time can do some damage...his two concusions have him gun shy back there, but who can blame him?...now enter Chan's offense...run first presumably because we cannot draft a stud and there are none available unless we pry D Mac from philly...so a run first ball club will rarely throw it around to millions of different wide outs...one deep threat and TE's and Backs out of the backfield....that's Trent's staple isn't it?...he never got on the same page with T.O....and since he's gone....I don't think Trent will be pressured to throw it more than twenty times a game except on rare occasions...

 

He is the ultimate efficient QB...to a fault sometimes...but in a run first defensive team...isn't that what you want?...I think it would be a mistake to draft a QB high in THIS draft, and I think with a Run stuffing DT and a couple OT's...you have a whole new ball game where Trent is concerned...he's intelligent and just needs to get over being gun shy...which I think he can do...now, again...I am not saying he's pro bowl material, but I think he is capable...and I think that we do not have enough evidence to criticize him yet...not when his numbers are comparable...his win loss is comparable as well to some of them...and I think he can be much more effective with a better O-Line

 

geez its nice to see someone still knows how to skew statistics and basically lie or at least fantasize whatever they want. Anyone can have a high td to int ratio if you throw dump offs every 3 out of 4 passes. Trents other pass is the 5 yard hook to the tight end and the long sideline ball that is extremely hard to pick off. FLUID RELEASE???? you know nothing of mechanics to make that statement. Cutler has a fluid release, Aikman had a fluid release. Saying fluid doesnt even mean much. Marino and Elway did not have a fluid release but were well...Marino and Elway. Trent has NO tools that i can see except the ability to hide his weaknesses for 2 years until last year when defenses crept up and took away the dump off. What a piece of sh^% Trent really is. A total fraud of a QB...with an attitude. He reminds me of the goodlooking guy in college who was really just a wuss and a dipsh&^^% cheated on all his exams and probably wet the bed at night. F Edwards.

[Sweet Lou]

I know this is a little off topic; but it's a really good scenario for leadership qualities. So hell with the stats for a sec. If we were "all" firemen, would you follow Trent Edwards into a burning building? I wouldn't ! Because I have followed real leaders into battle... and into burning buildings. And Trent Edwards is no leader. Sorry Trent Edwards fans, you just need to face reality. I'm sure he's a good dude, just not a good football player.

[CardinalScotts]

Yeah but if he did that...how would he have yardage comparable to the many great QB's I put stats up for?....only Brady had substantially more yardage...and Trent has more yardage than Montana, Young, and Rivers through the first 32 starts...

 

It's too early to tell...that's my opinion anyway...yes he needs to stop being a scared little girl...but the talent is there and Kerry Collins went through this with his second concusion then came back and brought the Gmen to the SB...so...I mean...I'm not willing to throw away two and a half years of development on another Rookie that will take three more years to develop...not until another season goes by and we see what we got

 

You say about the rule changes..that's why I have Rivers and Brees in there as well...same rules...similar numbers...we're judging Trent too harshly IMO

 

the passing rules of the last 5 years have made it EASY to put up 3500 yards in a season even for a mediocre quarterback while back in the late 70's early 80's if i guy threw for 2800-3100 yards a season it was a HUGE year

[thewildrabbit]

Sorry, Rabbit but Fairchild was still the OC in '07.

 

Everyone was psyched to see JP continue his breakout after '06 but I had my reservations because after he and Evans burned Houston on consecutive 83 yard TD bombs, DCs made it their mission that Evans would see very little single coverage from that point on. JP and Lee did little damage with the long ball after that game.

 

People have posted here numerous times saying that we changed our O in '07 but we didn't. JP just didn't have a clue about taking what defenses were giving him. He certainly knew, as did Fairchild, what they WEREN'T giving him but he couldn't make the adjustments. Why would an OC, coming off a promising '06 season with what everyone thought was a JP that had turned the corner in his development, DELIBERATELY change anything to hinder his further development? He wouldn't, Fairchild didn't but JP couldn't make adjustments. That's the main reason they kept Edwards in that year. He simply made more positive plays when his first option wasn't there. He was always better at going through his progressions than JP was. Yeah, it's frustrating to see all the checkdowns but GENERALLY positive plays are better than non-positive plays.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I disagree, Fairchild was never a real OC as Mike Martz called the plays in St Louis. Besides, look how many changes JP had to endure as his QB coach,head coach and offensive coordinator. It was like a constant revolving door on offense. How could any player develop properly under those conditions?

 

Kinda funny how each and every QB since JP has regressed game after game, they start out looking decent and eventually turn to crap. JP-TE-Fitz

 

Did you notice that the Vince Lombardi super bowl trophy is named after a coach and not a player or owner! Coaches make or break teams IMO, and the Bills have had horrible offensive coaches for 10 years or more.

[Guest dog14787]

I know this is a little off topic; but it's a really good scenario for leadership qualities. So hell with the stats for a sec. If we were "all" firemen, would you follow Trent Edwards into a burning building? I wouldn't ! Because I have followed real leaders into battle... and into burning buildings. And Trent Edwards is no leader. Sorry Trent Edwards fans, you just need to face reality. I'm sure he's a good dude, just not a good football player.

 

 

A little off topic, you think?

 

If we were "all" firemen, would you follow Trent Edwards into a burning building? brilliant, where do you guys come up with this stuff?

 

I'll bite though, If TE was my captain and folks were inside and needed to be rescued, your damn right I would, so you can wait outside and watch us rescue these folks and stay nice and safe.

 

but I'm going in... (welcome aboard Sweet Lou)

[thewildrabbit]

The final nine games of 2006 Losman had a 5.6 T.D. percentage ,ranked second in the NFL. We finish 5 and 4 in the final 9 games after starting 2 and 5. Those final nine games ,the teams we played againts had a combine 85 W and 59 L. We only played two teams with a below 500% record that final nine games. The following year he looses his job after two games.

Do you remember the Denver game in 07, JP drives down the field and the Bills are on the Denver 30 yd line, he looked good and was doing well on that first drive until...

 

First down at the 30, Rookie Marshawn Lynch misses the blitz pick up and JP is sacked back at the 45 yd line. Denver started blitzing, and because the Bills had changed linemen again this off season... the line and protections lacked cohesiveness because of a new O line coach, and a new OC, and new players.

 

Offense takes time to develop, more so then a defense, things need to stay the same year after year and the longer the players work and play together the better they get at it.

 

Jauron changed linemen every year, not to mention play callers changed almost as often, 6 different play callers in 5 years Mularkey took over calling plays from his OC in 05, Fairchild, Schonert, Alex Van Pelt.

 

This past season every player on the entire O line was changed and two rookies started, the other three had very little experience. It was almost like playing behind a complete rookie O line in 09.

 

Is it any wonder why everyone thinks all the Bills QB's suck... Mr. Ralph Wilson blew up the entire coaching staff for a reason

[Guest dog14787]

I disagree, Fairchild was never a real OC as Mike Martz called the plays in St Louis. Besides, look how many changes JP had to endure as his QB coach,head coach and offensive coordinator. It was like a constant revolving door on offense. How could any player develop properly under those conditions?

 

Kinda funny how each and every QB since JP has regressed game after game, they start out looking decent and eventually turn to crap. JP-TE-Fitz

 

Did you notice that the Vince Lombardi super bowl trophy is named after a coach and not a player or owner! Coaches make or break teams IMO, and the Bills have had horrible offensive coaches for 10 years or more.

 

 

Mr. Rabbit, you my friend are one of the most sensible posters on this board in my opinion.

[Celtic_soulja]

geez its nice to see someone still knows how to skew statistics and basically lie or at least fantasize whatever they want. Anyone can have a high td to int ratio if you throw dump offs every 3 out of 4 passes. Trents other pass is the 5 yard hook to the tight end and the long sideline ball that is extremely hard to pick off. FLUID RELEASE???? you know nothing of mechanics to make that statement. Cutler has a fluid release, Aikman had a fluid release. Saying fluid doesnt even mean much. Marino and Elway did not have a fluid release but were well...Marino and Elway. Trent has NO tools that i can see except the ability to hide his weaknesses for 2 years until last year when defenses crept up and took away the dump off. What a piece of sh^% Trent really is. A total fraud of a QB...with an attitude. He reminds me of the goodlooking guy in college who was really just a wuss and a dipsh&^^% cheated on all his exams and probably wet the bed at night. F Edwards.

 

Cutler has a fluid release???? wow...we know YOU are not a QB coach...Aikman I'll give you....Marino not fluid???...only the quickest release maybe EVER...yeah really sloppy....and Elway sure...he was a pitcher...moving on.....

 

Bill Walsh said some good things about Edwards.....hmmmm you or Walsh...yeah, I'll go ahead and stick with Walsh...just a gut feeling he knows QB's a bit better than you...anyway...again moving on...he reminds you of that guy in college because you were the nerd dreaming of getting on a football team...and well, he is...

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

Uhm, he won one last year.

 

Until we get someone better, or Trent or Brohm majorly pick up their game this offseason, Fitz is the MAN until further notice. Fitz is probably in his back yard throwing through a tire (or missing it) while Trent is in sunny CA working on his golf game. That's the difference.

 

The other difference is Fitz is probably the worst quarterback in the NFL today. Fitz is not the man. If you cannot recognize a desperate attempt by a failing coach to shunt the blame onto someone else (see firing of Turk Schonert in preseason), then you are beyond reconciliation with reason.

 

I mean with bantering idiots on TSW calling for DJs blood he had to do something to make it look like it wasn't his fault. And it wasn't entirely his fault (see offensive line). But comon, saying Fitz is better than Trent is just embarrassing for you.

[reddogblitz]

The other difference is Fitz is probably the worst quarterback in the NFL today. Fitz is not the man. If you cannot recognize a desperate attempt by a failing coach to shunt the blame onto someone else (see firing of Turk Schonert in preseason), then you are beyond reconciliation with reason.

 

I mean with bantering idiots on TSW calling for DJs blood he had to do something to make it look like it wasn't his fault. And it wasn't entirely his fault (see offensive line). But comon, saying Fitz is better than Trent is just embarrassing for you.

Fitz is not very good. No arguments from me.

 

The only way to say Trent is better though is to dig up meaningless stats. In the first 6 games when Trent was starter we were 2-4. After that in all games except the Falcons which Brohm played, we were 4-5. In 8 games Trent threw 6 TDs and was sacked 23 times. In 10 games, Fitz threw 9 TDs and was sacked 21 times. (2 less sacks in 2 more games.) This with the same team, same line, same OC. It could even be argued that Trent had a better line since he started with everyone healthy and we continued to lose guys when Fitz came in. Of course Trent's comp % was 60.1 to Fitz' 55.9. Trent rating 73.8, Fitz 69.7.

 

So who's better, the guy with the better completion percentage and rating, or the guy who could motivate the team better and avoid more sacks and win more games?

 

It is not embarassing for me to say Fitz is the class of the Bills QB staff as of right now. Not saying much, but there it is.

[Guest dog14787]

Fitz is not very good. No arguments from me.

 

The only way to say Trent is better though is to dig up meaningless stats. In the first 6 games when Trent was starter we were 2-4. After that in all games except the Falcons which Brohm played, we were 4-5. In 8 games Trent threw 6 TDs and was sacked 23 times. In 10 games, Fitz threw 9 TDs and was sacked 21 times. (2 less sacks in 2 more games.) This with the same team, same line, same OC. It could even be argued that Trent had a better line since he started with everyone healthy and we continued to lose guys when Fitz came in. Of course Trent's comp % was 60.1 to Fitz' 55.9. Trent rating 73.8, Fitz 69.7.

 

So who's better, the guy with the better completion percentage and rating, or the guy who could motivate the team better and avoid more sacks and win more games?

 

It is not embarassing for me to say Fitz is the class of the Bills QB staff as of right now. Not saying much, but there it is.

 

Everyone of course knows I'm a huge TE fan, but I really don't understand why folks are so down on Ryan Fitzpatrick. With the exception of 5 plays Fitz has basically won 9 out of his last 12 games, that kind of win percentage is playoffs folks.

 

Fitz's accuracy is a question mark, but like TE, he deserves a shot at playing behind a decent O-line and I'll be willing to bet when he does, his accuracy will also improve in my opinion.

[ConradDobler]

But comon, saying Fitz is better than Trent is just embarrassing for you.

 

First, it's either common, or come on. Second, neither one is adequate. Third, unfortunately we as fans are stuck with who they play. Fourth, Trent will get hurt. Fifth, No big deal. Sixth, Buh - bye!

[grelit]

My bad, TE's hand speed was clocked at 82 MPH and his reaction time was quicker than the fastest gunslinger in the world.

 

 

NFL QB (TE) vs. fastest known Gunslinger in the world

 

Wish he could display that speed during a game.

[grelit]

Mr. Rabbit, you my friend are one of the most sensible posters on this board in my opinion.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppwfxg7veq4...feature=related

[Sweet Lou]

dog14787

Thank You for the invite, much appreciated. And not to stir up your ire, but you missed the point on following Captain Trent into a burning building to rescue people while I'm nice and safe outside. I speak from experience and not ego.

Trent would NEVER ENTER the burning building, would never lead you into battle, and would never ever lead anyone into a rioting cell block to take back the prison. Trent is the guy that's bigger than me, stronger than me, smarter than me, better looking than me, but he is the one weeping uncontrolably on his knees, racked with fear, because he is an absolute coward.

Your QB is your leader and I know this scenario is a little extreme. But those men I've seen buckled by fear is your same hero Trent. Sorry again

[K-9]

Do you remember the Denver game in 07, JP drives down the field and the Bills are on the Denver 30 yd line, he looked good and was doing well on that first drive until...

 

First down at the 30, Rookie Marshawn Lynch misses the blitz pick up and JP is sacked back at the 45 yd line. Denver started blitzing, and because the Bills had changed linemen again this off season... the line and protections lacked cohesiveness because of a new O line coach, and a new OC, and new players.

 

Offense takes time to develop, more so then a defense, things need to stay the same year after year and the longer the players work and play together the better they get at it.

 

Jauron changed linemen every year, not to mention play callers changed almost as often, 6 different play callers in 5 years Mularkey took over calling plays from his OC in 05, Fairchild, Schonert, Alex Van Pelt.

 

This past season every player on the entire O line was changed and two rookies started, the other three had very little experience. It was almost like playing behind a complete rookie O line in 09.

 

Is it any wonder why everyone thinks all the Bills QB's suck... Mr. Ralph Wilson blew up the entire coaching staff for a reason

 

I think we can agree that Fairchild was not a good OC. I didn't realize that was the point of your post.

 

But he was the OC, regardless of his duties in St. Louis. He did call the plays in '06 and '07. There was a certain lack of continuity along the OL from the previous season (everyone thought we were better). Lynch for McGahee. Reed for Price. But still, there was no reason to believe that JP wouldn't continue his development coming off his great 2nd half of '06. But it was painfully obvious right from the get-go against Denver in '07 that teams were going to continue to deny everything deep, double Evans, crowd the LOL to take away our running game and dare JP to beat us with short and intermediate routes. Teams had NO respect for JP's ability to manage a game when he had no deep threat to stretch a defense. I disagree that its all on the coaches. It speaks more to lack of talented players, especially at QB, than anything else.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Guest dog14787]

dog14787

Thank You for the invite, much appreciated. And not to stir up your ire, but you missed the point on following Captain Trent into a burning building to rescue people while I'm nice and safe outside. I speak from experience and not ego.

Trent would NEVER ENTER the burning building, would never lead you into battle, and would never ever lead anyone into a rioting cell block to take back the prison. Trent is the guy that's bigger than me, stronger than me, smarter than me, better looking than me, but he is the one weeping uncontrolably on his knees, racked with fear, because he is an absolute coward.

Your QB is your leader and I know this scenario is a little extreme. But those men I've seen buckled by fear is your same hero Trent. Sorry again

 

 

Sweet, I didn't miss the point you were trying to convey. For one, comparing football with, war, burning buildings and life and death situations is a bad comparison. Another thing is you are chatting with one of Trent Edwards's biggest fans and given how intelligent Trent Edwards is I would have no problem following his orders.

 

Sorry buddy, but calling Trent Edwards a coward when he has never shown any fear on the football field is ridicules in my opinion. There's no basis for an assumption like that and if you have one I would be happy to hear it. I hear TE doesn't have balls all the time and its usually from posters who plain just can't think of anything better to say.

[K-9]

Sweet, I didn't miss the point you were trying to convey. For one, comparing football with, war, burning buildings and life and death situations is a bad comparison. Another thing is you are chatting with one of Trent Edwards's biggest fans and given how intelligent Trent Edwards is I would have no problem following his orders.

 

Sorry buddy, but calling Trent Edwards a coward when he has never shown any fear on the football field is ridicules in my opinion. There's no basis for an assumption like that and if you have one I would be happy to hear it. I hear TE doesn't have balls all the time and its usually from posters who plain just can't think of anything better to say.

 

I agree fear is the wrong word to use when Edwards will sit there and wait for a play to develop KNOWING he's going to get hammered. He was the same way in college. He has no fear of getting hit. It takes guts to sit in the pocket and let a play develop around you. Especially with our lack of talent up front at the edges.

 

That said, he DOES have SERIOUS confidence issues when it comes to certain plays. At the very least that lack of confidence means he is at least AFRAID to make a mistake. Nobody can play ANY game with that kind of mentality, especially at the most importante position perhaps in all of sports. Certainly on a football team. Like I said, I don't equate lack of confidence with fear. But it IS crippling his game.

 

And, like it or not, that lack of confidence rubs off on the players around him. And that compounds the problem for TE. It's a vicious cycle. Unless he gets off to a redhot start and has a lot of success to build on early this upcoming season, I'm not convinced he's capable of overcoming his confidence issues.

 

That's the ONLY problem with his game as a QB. He's got all the other qualities you'd want. Despite what some of the deeper thinkers would have you believe about his physical attributes. But that confidence problem is not an easy one to overcome. It's the football equivalent to the "yipps."

 

GO BILLS!!!