Get off the McNabb bandwagon

[reddogblitz]

No trading more than a 5th or lower for a vet QB

You get what you pay for. It would help us a lot more than hurt if we traded a #2 and if we have to another player like Lynch or Whitner. Of course if you could give up less all the better.

[CardinalScotts]

Pats, Charger, Ravens, Giants, Colts, all built from the ground up, very few high profile FA's brought in, most of their talent came thru the draft.

 

We don't need Mcnabb, we need to solidify our lines, draft some quality LBs, and develop a QB, STOP LOOKING FOR QUICK FIXES, Mcnabb doesn't even want to play here, very few do. We have to prove we are a relevant franchise before we have a chance to lure in top flight vets.

 

Patriots go get Moss, Welker, Fred Taylor, Sammy Morris, Chris Baker, on O ...Brandon McGowan, Seau, Gary Guyton, Adalius Thomas, Shawn Springs come to mind for NE.....ravens, chargers have built from within Giants have signed plenty of players the big difference with all these teams is they weren't missing the key piece at QB.....

[JESSEFEFFER]

The best football the Cardinals have played in decades came because they brought in Kurt Warner to be a "bridge" to the Leinert era. Whoever their next QB is will be hard pressed to play better football than Warner. Bringing in a guy like McNabb can give the Bills some good to excellent QB play while they try to find or develop someone good enough to take the job from him. That could take a long time.

[CarolinaBill]

Patriots go get Moss, Welker, Fred Taylor, Sammy Morris, Chris Baker, on O ...Brandon McGowan, Seau, Gary Guyton, Adalius Thomas, Shawn Springs come to mind for NE.....ravens, chargers have built from within Giants have signed plenty of players the big difference with all these teams is they weren't missing the key piece at QB.....

and like I said before, when the Pats were winning championships, how many high priced FA's did they have?, when they built those 2001-2005 teams, how was it done? Build thru the draft, low priced FA's and low tender trades.

[Orton's Arm]

Go back a little ways, and Seattle didn't draft Hasselbeck, the Ravens didn't draft Dilfer, the Bucs didn't draft Brad Johnson, and the Raiders didn't draft Gannon. This notion that we have to draft a guy and keep him for 15 years in order to get to or win a SB is over the top. Great if it works. More often than not it doesn't. Getting a proven winner like McNabb plus the talent we have, and we can start winning some now. Nothing starts a culture of winning like winning. Does anyone honestly think that if we put McNabb on the 2009 team we don't win at least 9 games? That's how many the Jets and Ravens won.

 

Just because we take a vet and win now, doesn't mean we can't find another guy to take over, either youngster or another vet. This isn't' the 1980s anymore when the only way to get players was the draft and trade. Even if we do draft a young guy and he comes along, his contract will run out in 3 or 4 years, then what?

 

We've been playing young QBs to try to bring them along for the last 5 years with zero success. Enough is enough. There are NFL QBs out there on the market. Not guys who might one day be good NFL QBs, but guys who are good now. Let's do what we can to get one for 2010.

Seattle traded a draft pick for Hasselbeck at a time when he was a young, unproven player. That's very similar to drafting a player in terms of risk, upside, and--most importantly--the player's potential for remaining in the league for many years to come.

 

The other quarterbacks you mentioned were signed in free agency. Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer went to teams with very good to elite defenses, that just needed some semblance of offense to get them over the top.

 

In none of the cases you mentioned did a relatively talentless, rebuilding team trade away a high draft pick for an aging veteran as some sort of springboard to building a "culture of winning." If you're a rebuilding team, trading away your earliest draft picks for aging vets is not the first step toward turning yourself into a Super Bowl winner!!

 

The Bills need their most valuable draft picks to turn into long-term answers at their respective positions. They cannot afford to do another Bledsoe trade (which is what McNabb would be). Not at this stage, when the team is so devoid of young talent.

[CarolinaBill]

Seattle traded a draft pick for Hasselbeck at a time when he was a young, unproven player. That's very similar to drafting a player in terms of risk, upside, and--most importantly--the player's potential for remaining in the league for many years to come.

 

The other quarterbacks you mentioned were signed in free agency. Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer went to teams with very good to elite defenses, that just needed some semblance of offense to get them over the top.

 

In none of the cases you mentioned did a relatively talentless, rebuilding team trade away a high draft pick for an aging veteran as some sort of springboard to building a "culture of winning." If you're a rebuilding team, trading away your earliest draft picks for aging vets is not the first step toward turning yourself into a Super Bowl winner!!

 

The Bills need their most valuable draft picks to turn into long-term answers at their respective positions. They cannot afford to do another Bledsoe trade (which is what McNabb would be). Not at this stage, when the team is so devoid of young talent.

Thank you, that is exactly what I was getting at, I'm glad somebody else gets it

[billsrcursed]

The best football the Cardinals have played in decades came because they brought in Kurt Warner to be a "bridge" to the Leinert era. Whoever their next QB is will be hard pressed to play better football than Warner. Bringing in a guy like McNabb can give the Bills some good to excellent QB play while they try to find or develop someone good enough to take the job from him. That could take a long time.

 

Nice post.

 

I get the whole, "we're not going to the SB next year anyway, so why give up the picks" argument, but it would be foolish to throw a rookie in right away next year, too. Let him learn under Mcnabb, nothing wrong with that at all.

 

And lulz at the morons calling Mcnabb overrated, that's just retarded....

[reddogblitz]

Seattle traded a draft pick for Hasselbeck at a time when he was a young, unproven player. That's very similar to drafting a player in terms of risk, upside, and--most importantly--the player's potential for remaining in the league for many years to come.

 

The other quarterbacks you mentioned were signed in free agency. Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer went to teams with very good to elite defenses, that just needed some semblance of offense to get them over the top.

 

In none of the cases you mentioned did a relatively talentless, rebuilding team trade away a high draft pick for an aging veteran as some sort of springboard to building a "culture of winning." If you're a rebuilding team, trading away your earliest draft picks for aging vets is not the first step toward turning yourself into a Super Bowl winner!!

 

The Bills need their most valuable draft picks to turn into long-term answers at their respective positions. They cannot afford to do another Bledsoe trade (which is what McNabb would be). Not at this stage, when the team is so devoid of young talent.

I'll guess we'll have to agree to disagree on some of this. First, I don't see the Bills as a "talentless, rebuilding team". We got holes, yeah. But we also have some very good talent. You gotta have a good QB to win in the NFL. The only team that did anything this year without a good QB was the Jets. You are content to sit back and lose another 2 or 3 years until Bradford or Clausen or whoever is ready to win. I'm not. I want us to go balls out and try to win at least 8 or 9 games in 2010 if not 10 and to the playoffs. We're not that far off. Some OLine help, at least a good of defense as we had last year, and good QB and we're in the mix in late December. That's what I'm talkin' about.

 

I'm not married to McNabb either. I'd take a FA. Kyle Orton, Duante Culpepper, Chad Pennington, Tavaris Jackson would all be a step up for us. I'm tired of losing. There's no guarantee that a QB taken in round 1 will ever be good. McNabb or Orton we know are good now.

[SoulMan]

The best football the Cardinals have played in decades came because they brought in Kurt Warner to be a "bridge" to the Leinert era. Whoever their next QB is will be hard pressed to play better football than Warner. Bringing in a guy like McNabb can give the Bills some good to excellent QB play while they try to find or develop someone good enough to take the job from him. That could take a long time.

 

This is the best strategy on this chain and precisely the reason the Bills should make a fair deal for McNabb.

[Nuncha]

Im ok with bringing in a vet, but not at the cost of what mcnabb would fetch, or vick. No trading more than a 5th or lower for a vet QB

 

McScabb will probably end up with the Carolina panthers, or possibly Minnesota ...if Favre makes his mind up soon enough (as if)

[Nuncha]

The best football the Cardinals have played in decades came because they brought in Kurt Warner to be a "bridge" to the Leinert era. Whoever their next QB is will be hard pressed to play better football than Warner. Bringing in a guy like McNabb can give the Bills some good to excellent QB play while they try to find or develop someone good enough to take the job from him. That could take a long time.

 

 

Doug Flutie was supposed to be our "bridge" to the future too...LOL! (Rob Johnson, JP LOSTMAN, Trent Edwards)

[stinky finger]

The only team that did anything this year without a good QB was the Jets.

You should have stopped while you were ahead.

 

You point out the very formula for sustained success in the NFL. And I promise you, it aint by acquiring a 33 year old QB.

 

The Jets already have in place an OL/running game that is among the best. Factor in a defense that was good and only figures to get better. The Jets mix of draft/FA has done wonders (Mangold, D'Brick, Faneca, Woody, McKenzie comes back?). Young drafted talent at RB and TE (Keller, Greene). Decent/good WRs (Cotch, Edwards).

 

Then they make their move for whom they thought will be their franchise QB. In comes Sanchez. Because everything else is in place, Sanchez doesn't have to be brilliant. Yet he figures to get better with each passing season. If he becomes even remotely stud-like, look out.

 

Foritfy your lines, both O & D, bring in players to fit your new defensive scheme and let them become your calling card. The city we play in, the fiber of the people of Buffalo, should be demonstrated by the Bills defense every single Sunday. That is to say hardnosed and passionate. Then go find (draft) who you really believe can QB this team for the next decade.

 

Quick fix? No such thing for a perenial loser.

[1billsfan]

Nice post.

 

I get the whole, "we're not going to the SB next year anyway, so why give up the picks" argument, but it would be foolish to throw a rookie in right away next year, too. Let him learn under Mcnabb, nothing wrong with that at all.

 

And lulz at the morons calling Mcnabb overrated, that's just retarded....

 

 

First off, it's not "cool" to use the r word dude.

 

Secondly, McNabb is overrated. In his last five season's McNabb has only averaged 19 TDs per season. He played in a decade where the NFC was a very bad conference. He had one awesome season where they went to the Superbowl and he deserves a ton of credit for that, but that was six long seasons ago. He's not Kurt Warner, he's a very good west coast "system" guy who enjoyed the fruits of having a very good defense, very good coaching, an awesome offensive line and Brian Westbrook to throw to a few thousand times. He's the Danny White of this generation. It would be an asinine move to trade away any high picks for an over the hill and overrated Donovan McNabb.

[CardinalScotts]

One or two years then back to crap shows no confidence in Nix or Gailey. I would feel that way too if Nix wasn't running things but this guy is different.

[bills in va]

This is the best strategy on this chain and precisely the reason the Bills should make a fair deal for McNabb.

"Fair Deal" The Eagles will demand a premium for McNabb. I would rather use our first two rounders on a LT and QB if possible. Again I am not against bringing him in at all, it is the tall price we'll pay for having him 2-3 years. The posters who think we are ready to make a deep playoff run by trading high draft picks for him are uninformed. We have alot of holes to fill, AND we are switching defense schemes. I have not read one argument on this post that makes me believe we can win a Superbowl by trading for McNabb. We will give up too much and just set us back. I would rather draft well the next two years and build our team that way. Then we'll be ready to compete in 3-4 years for a title.

[Orton's Arm]

I'll guess we'll have to agree to disagree on some of this. First, I don't see the Bills as a "talentless, rebuilding team". We got holes, yeah. But we also have some very good talent. You gotta have a good QB to win in the NFL. The only team that did anything this year without a good QB was the Jets. You are content to sit back and lose another 2 or 3 years until Bradford or Clausen or whoever is ready to win. I'm not. I want us to go balls out and try to win at least 8 or 9 games in 2010 if not 10 and to the playoffs. We're not that far off. Some OLine help, at least a good of defense as we had last year, and good QB and we're in the mix in late December. That's what I'm talkin' about.

 

I'm not married to McNabb either. I'd take a FA. Kyle Orton, Duante Culpepper, Chad Pennington, Tavaris Jackson would all be a step up for us. I'm tired of losing. There's no guarantee that a QB taken in round 1 will ever be good. McNabb or Orton we know are good now.

First, I divide seasons into two categories: 1) those that end in Super Bowl wins, and 2) those that don't. I'm interested in maximizing the probability of a category 1 season, and not all that interested in making fine distinctions between the various gradations of category 2 seasons.

 

What do the Bills have to do to build themselves into a Super Bowl winner? First, let's look at the existing talent they have on both sides of the ball. On defense, their young, good talent in the front 7 currently consists of Kyle Williams and Poz. There are five positions in the front 7 which are either inadequately filled, or filled with aging veterans who will soon need to be replaced. The defensive secondary shouldn't have serious needs for a few years.

 

On offense, the Bills need to re-sign Incognito and move Wood to center. With an interior line of Levitre, Wood, and Incognito, the Bills' offensive line needs would consist of LT (gaping hole) and arguably RT (though they can get by with Butler if they have to). In addition to help at OT, the offense needs a QB and a #1 WR.

 

To summarize this, the team needs the following:

QB

LT

#1 WR

RT (sort of)

NT

RDE

Rushing OLB

OLB

ILB

 

You'll notice that a lot of those positions--including QB, LT, NT, and RDE--are at the elite, hardest-to-fill areas, where you'd typically expect to have to use a top-10 draft pick to get a very good player. It's not like the Bills are short on OGs, for example, where you could plug in some guy from the lower first round and expect to get a consistent Pro Bowler.

 

Filling all of these needs--or even enough of them to win the Super Bowl--within one to two years' time is not a realistic goal. It will probably not be until year 3 of the rebuilding process that the Bills will have turned their existing holes into sources of strength. But in three years time, how well will McNabb really be playing? Even if the answer is "very well," how many more years would that remain the case?

 

As you pointed out, you typically need good to elite play from the QB position to be a serious threat to win the Super Bowl. (Teams with defenses as good as the Ravens of 2000 are exceptions.) If the Bills were to trade for McNabb, then in years 1 and 2 of the project, the Bills would be kept out of the Super Bowl due to the overall team weaknesses described above. In years 3 and 4--as those weaknesses were being corrected--the Bills would be kept out of the Super Bowl by declining play at the QB position. They would then be faced with the task of trying to get their QB of the future at a time when their strength at other positions would keep them out of the top 10 of the draft.

[IHFO]

you should get on the McNabb Bandwagon

[stinky finger]

First, I divide seasons into two categories: 1) those that end in Super Bowl wins, and 2) those that don't. I'm interested in maximizing the probability of a category 1 season, and not all that interested in making fine distinctions between the various gradations of category 2 seasons.

 

What do the Bills have to do to build themselves into a Super Bowl winner? First, let's look at the existing talent they have on both sides of the ball. On defense, their young, good talent in the front 7 currently consists of Kyle Williams and Poz. There are five positions in the front 7 which are either inadequately filled, or filled with aging veterans who will soon need to be replaced. The defensive secondary shouldn't have serious needs for a few years.

 

On offense, the Bills need to re-sign Incognito and move Wood to center. With an interior line of Levitre, Wood, and Incognito, the Bills' offensive line needs would consist of LT (gaping hole) and arguably RT (though they can get by with Butler if they have to). In addition to help at OT, the offense needs a QB and a #1 WR.

 

To summarize this, the team needs the following:

QB

LT

#1 WR

RT (sort of)

NT

RDE

Rushing OLB

OLB

ILB

 

You'll notice that a lot of those positions--including QB, LT, NT, and RDE--are at the elite, hardest-to-fill areas, where you'd typically expect to have to use a top-10 draft pick to get a very good player. It's not like the Bills are short on OGs, for example, where you could plug in some guy from the lower first round and expect to get a consistent Pro Bowler.

 

Filling all of these needs--or even enough of them to win the Super Bowl--within one to two years' time is not a realistic goal. It will probably not be until year 3 of the rebuilding process that the Bills will have turned their existing holes into sources of strength. But in three years time, how well will McNabb really be playing? Even if the answer is "very well," how many more years would that remain the case?

 

As you pointed out, you typically need good to elite play from the QB position to be a serious threat to win the Super Bowl. (Teams with defenses as good as the Ravens of 2000 are exceptions.) If the Bills were to trade for McNabb, then in years 1 and 2 of the project, the Bills would be kept out of the Super Bowl due to the overall team weaknesses described above. In years 3 and 4--as those weaknesses were being corrected--the Bills would be kept out of the Super Bowl by declining play at the QB position. They would then be faced with the task of trying to get their QB of the future at a time when their strength at other positions would keep them out of the top 10 of the draft.

No, no, no. We have to fix this NOW. Bring in McNabb and, well, we'll fudge the rest.

 

It's ALL about the QB.

[1billsfan]

No, no, no. We have to fix this NOW. Bring in McNabb and, well, we'll fudge the rest.

 

It's ALL about the QB.

 

 

 

The only reason those fans are interested in McNabb is because he went to Syracuse (which is kind of near Buffalo, so of course that's the reason to trade valuable picks for him). If he came out of Rutgers and had the same "west coast system guy" career with the Eagles, those same people would be laughing at the thought of sending any of the Bills picks for an aging, often injured and fading star like McNabb.

 

We are definitely in the middle of the silly season here.