Did Mike Leach really find it necessary

[John Cocktosten]

Leach exposed himself as a classless goon on ESPN tonight.

 

Leach probably has some twisted S&M fantasies that he plays out with his wife. How else to explain locking up a 20 year old kid in a closet for 3 hours.

Trent's been in the closet for years and it's only hampered his throwing ability.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Not saying this happened. Suppose an injured player comes to practice wearing shades and is generally clowning around, texting people with his cell phone, and just generally being a disruption. As the coach, is asking him to go sit in a room away from the other players cruel and unusual punishment?

 

The real question here is intent. Leach is an egomaniac, but was he intending to haze the kid? And, if the kid didn't have any sort of agenda then why was he alone in a closet making videos?

[John Cocktosten]

Not saying this happened. Suppose an injured player comes to practice wearing shades and is generally clowning around, texting people with his cell phone, and just generally being a disruption. As the coach, is asking him to go sit in a room away from the other players cruel and unusual punishment?

Adding to your scenerio, what if the team was coming off of a loss and they were having a bad practice. Here comes Adam James, whom he obviously dislikes, wearing shades walking around the track like a dope. That my friends is the pefect storm.

[Stussy109]

for what? having a concussion or complaining about being confined to a shed?

i totally agree with your sentiment.

[NewEra]

for what? having a concussion or complaining about being confined to a shed?

 

a shed...lol. do your research instead of listening to the media's bs.

 

James is a wuss and should be cut. Texas Tech just ruined their football program because of a whiny kid. No doubt about it.

[jester43]

Would you be thumbsup if the Bills took Jester's attitude about player development and weren't pushing a young first rounder like Aaron Maybin harder and instead were content with playing Ryan Denney because he's lower maintenance? We want players developed and the best brought out of them, not too just line up the most willing warm body. I think people are taking this James situation as if it were taking place in the classroom. Football is a tough and sometimes unfair game.

"player development?" how are you helping player development by putting one disrespectful athlete in a position of power by treating him even more disrespectfully? now instead of alienating 1 kid, you have alienated him and all his buddies on the team! how does that help player development? why do you think all those TCU kids were quoted as saying they supported the decision and they feel better now that leach is gone?

 

 

either this guy is not the leader he is cut out to be, or he has sold his soul to the devil by recruiting a whole bunch of low-character prima donnas who don't undertand his own peculiar brand of "tough love." either way he's proven that he's not the right guy to be the face of that program.

[ThreeBillsDrive]

a shed...lol. do your research instead of listening to the media's bs.

 

James is a wuss and should be cut. Texas Tech just ruined their football program because of a whiny kid. No doubt about it.

 

Do we really have the full case history on Leach's employment file? The James case is getting the bulk of the press on Leach. But until we see Leach's full employment file and citations for contravening his employment contract, asserting that TT "ruined their football program because of a whiny kid" is disengenuous.

[bills44]

Leach probably has some twisted S&M fantasies that he plays out with his wife. How else to explain locking up a 20 year old kid in a closet for 3 hours.

 

 

Seriously, though - I still don't understand what Leach was trying to accomplish by putting James in a shed/closet/whatever.

[ThreeBillsDrive]

 

Seriously, though - I still don't understand what Leach was trying to accomplish by putting James in a shed/closet/whatever.

 

Will we ever know?

[John Cocktosten]

either this guy is not the leader he is cut out to be, or he has sold his soul to the devil by recruiting a whole bunch of low-character prima donnas who don't undertand his own peculiar brand of "tough love." either way he's proven that he's not the right guy to be the face of that program.

He has the 8th best graduation rate nationally and tops in the big 12. He's doing it right by teaching his players discipline.

 

Big time programs at the bottom:

#204 Alabama 44%

#204 Minnesota 44%

#204 Cal 44%

#214 Georgia 41%

#216 Texas 40%

#217 Arizona 39%

[jester43]

correction..."WAS" doing it right until he let his massive ego get the best of him and cause him to do something stupid. and remember, my point all along is that he was really stupid, not that he's a criminal or a child abuser. but his bad judgment turned his own team against him.

[Red Squirrel]

...I can't imagine a Joe Paterno or Lou Holtz doing something like this.

 

Paterno I'll give you, but you don't know much about Holtz if you think he hasn't done worse than this.

 

My sense is there are losers all the way around here. Both Craig and Adam James look like crybabies, and Leach comes off like a boss's nightmare. And as others say, the timing of this with the bowl game bonus coming due makes Tech look bad.

[John Cocktosten]

correction..."WAS" doing it right until he let his massive ego get the best of him and cause him to do something stupid. and remember, my point all along is that he was really stupid, not that he's a criminal or a child abuser.

And my point is that Leach IS an egomaniac but he should not have been fired. Far worse stuff happens on a routine basis in all sports, not just football. This had nothing to do with what he "did" to James, TT wanted to fire him all along. I promise you this, James has lost the respect of 90% of his teammates and will disapear into obscurity.

 

Here is something else to think about. This kid destroyed that locker room. For every kid who disliked Leach there are those who love him. How do you think those kids feel about James now? How do you think important alumni like Crabtree feel about it? Ar they still going to support the program? I doubt it.

 

Last question, is The Senator alive?

[coldstorage5]

The kids a baby, the parent is a helicopter, the coach is arrogant.

 

You watch, TT will never be the same

[uforesircher]

I don't agree with Leach ripping them publicly until all the facts are out but I think he was unjustly fired because Adam James is a woos and cried to his dad that he wasn't getting enough playing time. The whole thing got blown out of proportion and it will eventually hurt all the parties involved including Texas Tech the most in the long run.

 

If anything needed to be handled internally, it would be this situation and it wasn't because the player involved has a media outlet in his house. Adam James needs to be released from the team as well IMO.

 

the only real issue i have with your post is what i bolded and up-sized. i can tell you as a former Division I Head Coach what Leach did was an offense worthy of being fired - and to punish an NCAA athelete by releasing him from the team because he had a concussion and reported a clear violation of being punished by putting him in a confined room is beyond wrong on so many levels. just a few points to think about - if James was released that would send a very bad message to the rest of the NCAA coaches on what they could do; also it is totally against the current NCAA's policy on how to treat atheletes with concussions; also it would inhibit other NCAA atheletes from reporting violations by their coaches for fear of being released - and some of them are scholarship atheletes who would lose their scholarships in that instance. it just could not be done.

[jester43]

And my point is that Leach IS an egomaniac but he should not have been fired. Far worse stuff happens on a routine basis in all sports, not just football. This had nothing to do with what he "did" to James, TT wanted to fire him all along. I promise you this, James has lost the respect of 90% of his teammates and will disapear into obscurity.

 

Here is something else to think about. This kid destroyed that locker room. For every kid who disliked Leach there are those who love him. How do you think those kids feel about James now? How do you think important alumni like Crabtree feel about it? Ar they still going to support the program? I doubt it.

 

Last question, is The Senator alive?

those are fair points. although i suppose i could say it was LEACH who destroyed the locker room by giving that kid a soapbox because of his OWN stupidity.

 

in any event, he sounds like a guy who thought he was bigger than the program, which is almost never the case. every coach is replaceable and there is no reason tech has to fade into obscurity just because leach is gone. if anything he proved even a nutjob could win there!

[John Cocktosten]

the only real issue i have with your post is what i bolded and up-sized. i can tell you as a former Division I Head Coach what Leach did was an offense worthy of being fired - and to punish an NCAA athelete by releasing him from the team because he had a concussion and reported a clear violation of being punished by putting him in a confined room is beyond wrong on so many levels. just a few points to think about - if James was released that would send a very bad message to the rest of the NCAA coaches on what they could do; also it is totally against the current NCAA's policy on how to treat atheletes with concussions; also it would inhibit other NCAA atheletes from reporting violations by their coaches for fear of being released - and some of them are scholarship atheletes who would lose their scholarships in that instance. it just could not be done.

How did you punish your kids when they got into fights out on campus? Got caught cheating? Showing up late for position meetings? How about when you thought they weren't working hard?

 

How did you deal with parents who thought you were making the wrong decisions and weren't afraid to tell you about it?

 

I don't care to credential, but I know this is what happens all of the time. 4 of my good friends played at a high level as well and they all have stories. It happens everywhere.

[uforesircher]

Q1: How did you punish your kids when they got into fights out on campus? Q2: Got caught cheating? Q3: Showing up late for position meetings? Q4: How about when you thought they weren't working hard?

 

Q5: How did you deal with parents who thought you were making the wrong decisions and weren't afraid to tell you about it?

 

I don't care to credential, but I know this is what happens all of the time. 4 of my good friends played at a high level as well and they all have stories. It happens everywhere.

 

i can't speak for anyone else but myself. but i am willing to answer your 5 questions.

Q1: talk with them, find out as much as possible and educate them on why that will not be tolerated.

Q2: suspension period - no excuses for cheating.

Q3: a little extra running is always a valid incentive to showing up on time.

Q4: again i'd talk with them and see what is going on in their lives and help to become more productive.

Q5: i listened intensely while they are talking, then explain to them why i made the decisions i made.

 

now i may have taken my job more seriously then some - but giving them the best experience possible and nurturing them into contributive members of society - while improving their atheltic skills was my overall goal.

 

for sure things happen all the time, and they always will, however all that really matters is how they are dealt with.

[Cynical]

You call it victimhood, I call it setting up the groundwork for the legal case.

 

By declaring in public your firing had nothing to do with the "alleged" infractions, but was due to financial reasons?

Granted, I am no lawyer, but unless this is some PR move to pressure the university into a settlement, I cannot see how this helps his legal case.

 

So far, Craig James comes out to be a much bigger whiner, because he's been all over the airwaves this weekend (enough to preempt ESPN from covering the Buddy Nix promotion) claiming that his only concern was about his son's safety. Yet nothing that's come out indicates that Adam was remotely close to being harmed.

 

Did Leach embarrass the kid? Absolutely? Did he perhaps go too far in making an example out of him? Yes. Was this a fireable offense for cause based on the news that's coming out? Doubtful.

 

Does James sound like a spoiled little league dad? Probable.

 

As you pointed out, the James family and their complaints are beginning to look foolish.

Assuming the allegations are complete BS, I still do not see how Leach bashing on those people in public helps his cause, or puts him a better light.

 

As Lori mentioned, there's an owner out there who doesn't mind if his coach almost kills another assistant as long as he delivers a W. The more news that comes out, the worse that James gang looks. Sure, Leach looks petty, but if he was in the right, then memories will be short.

 

And said owner is being ridiculed and mocked, and his organization is probably the most dysfunctional in the NFL.

 

Being a "petty" HC may not matter at the pro level, but at the collegiate level, being a "petty" HC can have an adverse effect on recruiting. Leach can hope and pray that people forget, and after time, people will. Unfortunately, Leach's recruiting competitors will not, and they will gladly remind those recruits (and their parents) of Leach's "pettiness".

 

Of course, that's assuming Leach will be able to land another HC gig at the collegiate level. Schools tend to avoid coaches with negative baggage.

[John Cocktosten]

i can't speak for anyone else but myself. but i am willing to answer your 5 questions.

Q1: talk with them, find out as much as possible and educate them on why that will not be tolerated.

Q2: suspension period - no excuses for cheating.

Q3: a little extra running is always a valid incentive to showing up on time.

Q4: again i'd talk with them and see what is going on in their lives and help to become more productive.

Q5: i listened intensely while they are talking, then explain to them why i made the decisions i made.

I'm not doubting that you were a coach, but I'm doubting that you were a football coach. Most D1 teams have 100 plus players and to play coach and therapist doesn't work with that number of kids. You're lucky to get 5 minutes alone with your HC. I am the type that needs a hard lesson and strict discipline and so were many of my teammates. You don't learn accountabilty from a few laps and a lecture or everyone would join the Armed Services. You learn a lesson by knowing what is on the other side of a poor decision. Believe me, I hate that tough guy mentality but for some players, it's necessary.