just fix the o-line..

[zer0vette]

a solid o-line would go such a long way on both sides of the ball. That's all i want to see. There are quite a few teams going to the playoffs this year who do not have stellar QBs. Just give a guy some time to throw, a few extra seconds on those 3rd down conversions, and the difference would be amazing.... Tired opposing defenses, sustained drives that eat clock, offensive POINTS. Fix the o-line please!!!!

[PushthePile]

a solid o-line would go such a long way on both sides of the ball. That's all i want to see. There are quite a few teams going to the playoffs this year who do not have stellar QBs. Just give a guy some time to throw, a few extra seconds on those 3rd down conversions, and the difference would be amazing.... Tired opposing defenses, sustained drives that eat clock, offensive POINTS. Fix the o-line please!!!!

So far the QBS that have clinched a playoff spot are as follows Manning, Brady, Palmer, Rivers, Romo, Mcnabb, Favre, Rodgers, Brees, and Warner. Good point, alot of bums on that list. Clearly they all benefit from elite o-lines and never have to deal with pressure.

[zer0vette]

So far the QBS that have clinched a playoff spot are as follows Manning, Brady, Palmer, Rivers, Romo, Mcnabb, Favre, Rodgers, Brees, and Warner. Good point, alot of bums on that list. Clearly they all benefit from elite o-lines and never have to deal with pressure.

 

No one mentioned 'bums', but that entire list are not Stellar by themselves. They are surrounded by very talented teammates and coaches, and decent o-lines.

[PushthePile]

No one mentioned 'bums', but that entire list are not Stellar by themselves. They are surrounded by very talented teammates and coaches, and decent o-lines.

Some of them are surrounded by very talented coaches and o-lines. Some of them are overcoming below average o-lines and coaching. The bottom line is, "many teams aren't making the playoffs with less than stellar QBs". In fact it's the complete opposite of the point you were trying to make.

 

QB play is and always has been the most important factor in winning and losing. Obviously, all the other pieces of the puzzle are important, but they are a distant second.

[Maddog69]

a solid o-line would go such a long way on both sides of the ball. That's all i want to see. There are quite a few teams going to the playoffs this year who do not have stellar QBs. Just give a guy some time to throw, a few extra seconds on those 3rd down conversions, and the difference would be amazing.... Tired opposing defenses, sustained drives that eat clock, offensive POINTS. Fix the o-line please!!!!

 

I agree that the Oline needs to be fixed but so does the QB position. Our QBs suck regardless of how good or bad the line is. Good QBs make a line look better and make a team better. But to your point about all of the playoff teams with bad QBs, please name the teams.

I see the following teams/QBs already in the playoffs this year:

Indy (Manning)

New England (Brady)

SD (Rivers)

Cincy (Palmer)

New Orleans (Brees)

Philly (McNabb)

Minny (Favre)

AZ (Warner)

 

That is a pretty damned good group of QBs. But just for the sake of argument, lets look at the rest of the teams in the hunt:

Jets (Sanchez)

Broncos (Orton)

Packers (Rodgers)

Cowboys (Homo)

Giants (Eli Manning)

Ravens (Flacco)

Texans (Schaub)

Steelers (Big Ben)

 

Still a pretty solid list of QBs. I would even call them Stellar. Your point holds no water.

As Dickie J would say "It's hard to win in the NFL" and it is even harder to win without a damned good QB. If we have a shot at a potential franchise QB in the draft in Rd1, we have to take it. Look at the players above, 9 were first rounders (many at the top of Rd1). 3 were second rounders. Brady, Favre, Romo and Orton where the only ones not drafted in Rd1 or 2.

[zer0vette]

Other than the colts, who have a genius in Manning, what team this year would you say is successful with a good QB, a bad o-line, and an so-so supporting cast?

[Bufcomments]

So far the QBS that have clinched a playoff spot are as follows Manning, Brady, Palmer, Rivers, Romo, Mcnabb, Favre, Rodgers, Brees, and Warner. Good point, alot of bums on that list. Clearly they all benefit from elite o-lines and never have to deal with pressure.

All the QB's you mentioned are Excellent. Manning, Brady, McNabb, Favre, Warner, Brees are sure Hall of Famers.

 

They can get by with just an average O-line because they have seen everything a D can throw at them and know what to do.

 

But the OP has a point, you can get to the playoffs with a decent QB and a Above average O-line.

 

Fitz is not great but he would have put up some decent numbers if he had time to throw.

 

I say draft O-line first round, even if they get somebody in the free agent market. But that should be the main focus because you can win with Jackson and Lynch running to put you in 3rd and short situations.

 

We do need a QB badly but we need some Tackles more IMO.

[indiragandhi'sthong]

I agree with the need to fix the O-Line ... as tempting as an early QB might be (see Claussen), getting a stud LT to pencil in with those young guards would give whoever is calling the signals a better chance to find someone and Fred Jackson more lanes to run in. There are enough QB prospects to look at later in the draft and I am convinced that Brohm deserves an off-season look. Use rounds 2 - 5 to search for defensive help (LB, LB, LB) and perhaps we could be headed in the right direrction.

[The Big Cat]

Other than the colts, who have a genius in Manning, what team this year would you say is successful with a bad o-line and an o.k supporting cast?

 

Pitttsburgh and Green Bay. Also, Mike Gandy is Arizona's LT.

[zer0vette]

Pitttsburgh and Green Bay. Also, Mike Gandy is Arizona's LT.

 

i might agree with the Steelers... but they have lost to some terrible teams this year, so i don't know.

 

id have to disagree with Green bay... Ryan Grant has some pretty nice runs thanks to the O-line opening up holes and teammates providing good blocks.

[Ray]

Cleveland has a very good OL

So does Miami....1st rounders and all pros on those lines.

 

A great QB trumps all that is why those 10 teams are in the play-offs. The only thing you had to see was the Indy Jets game this week when they took Manning out...same OL and what happened? They looked worse than the Bills' offense.

Don't get me wrong, a good OL is very helpful but the Bills problem is that even when their QBs have time to throw they miss and throw poorly. There is a huge discrepancy between QBs in this league. There is not as big a discrepancy between OL...that is why the Colts and Pats can take guys and plug them in and not miss a beat. The Colts have starters on their line who played in the Arena League.

For years I have heard that the Bills QBs were not playing well b/c of the OL...Todd Collins, RJ, JP, Bledsoe, Trent Edwards. NONE of those QBs left Buffalo and went anywhere and played well. They were still bad. Romo had success behind the same OL Bledsoe played behind. Maybe it is b/c our QBs have been bad.

I am all for getting great OL but it will not matter at all if we are throwing the likes of Trent and RF in as QBs.

[R. Rich]

I agree that the Oline needs to be fixed but so does the QB position. Our QBs suck regardless of how good or bad the line is. Good QBs make a line look better and make a team better. But to your point about all of the playoff teams with bad QBs, please name the teams.

I see the following teams/QBs already in the playoffs this year:

Indy (Manning)

New England (Brady)

SD (Rivers)

Cincy (Palmer)

New Orleans (Brees)

Philly (McNabb)

Minny (Favre)

AZ (Warner)

 

That is a pretty damned good group of QBs. But just for the sake of argument, lets look at the rest of the teams in the hunt:

Jets (Sanchez)

Broncos (Orton)

Packers (Rodgers)

Cowboys (Homo)

Giants (Eli Manning)

Ravens (Flacco)

Texans (Schaub)

Steelers (Big Ben)

 

Still a pretty solid list of QBs. I would even call them Stellar. Your point holds no water.

As Dickie J would say "It's hard to win in the NFL" and it is even harder to win without a damned good QB. If we have a shot at a potential franchise QB in the draft in Rd1, we have to take it. Look at the players above, 9 were first rounders (many at the top of Rd1). 3 were second rounders. Brady, Favre, Romo and Orton where the only ones not drafted in Rd1 or 2.

 

 

It is quite important to have a good QB situation in today's NFL. Problem is, too many people lose sight of everythng for the sake of that position. Based on the talent that should be available in this year's draft, I honestly cannot say I'd forsake a stud LB like McClain (if he actually declares and IF he's available) or a big DT like Suh (huge IF), Cody, or even McCoy. Not to mention a tackle like Okung (again, if he's available) to solidify a position the Bills (including their QBs) NEED to see solidified for any of the QBs that should be available. I don't see Colt McCoy, Jimmy Clausen, or Sam Bradford as a "franchise" QB in the mold of Rivers, Manning, or Roethlisberger. Maybe they are, but to me, it makes more sense to build up the horrendous O line, add some more bulk to the interior of the D line, and add not only badly needed size, but also athleticism to the LB corps FIRST.

[MikeSpeed]

I made this comment in another tread, but I'll make it again. If I was doing a study of who makes whom better does the offense make the QB or the QB make the offense I'd swap a QB from a playoff team with one from a non-playoff team.

Last year Jay Cutler led the Broncos to the playoffs. Kyle Ortan was a nobody. They swap teams and Denver still has a chance for the playoffs while the Bears are out. Now it's only one case, but it is interesting.

There's also the Steve Young, case going from Tampa to SF. I'm not sure Steve Young would have ever been anything more than an average QB had he stayed at Tampa.

When Ben R was a rookie he had a good o-line and stellar run game to help him. Without both this year they are stuggling to make the playoffs. The opposite could be said about Sanchez this year with the Jets.

I just think it's a safer bet to build an o-line and a reliable running game to make a good QB look great rather than the other way around.

Now I would love the next Payton Manning to be a Bill, and if the NEW FO thinks he's in this years draft then by all means draft him somehow. IMHO he's not there and even if he is there, there is no sure way to know which QB he is. So build the o-line. Give Fred and Marshawn room to run, and I think the passing game will become much more effective even with the QB's we already have as scary as that sounds.

[Thurman#1]

I agree that the Oline needs to be fixed but so does the QB position. Our QBs suck regardless of how good or bad the line is. Good QBs make a line look better and make a team better. But to your point about all of the playoff teams with bad QBs, please name the teams.

I see the following teams/QBs already in the playoffs this year:

Indy (Manning)

New England (Brady)

SD (Rivers)

Cincy (Palmer)

New Orleans (Brees)

Philly (McNabb)

Minny (Favre)

AZ (Warner)

 

That is a pretty damned good group of QBs. But just for the sake of argument, lets look at the rest of the teams in the hunt:

Jets (Sanchez)

Broncos (Orton)

Packers (Rodgers)

Cowboys (Homo)

Giants (Eli Manning)

Ravens (Flacco)

Texans (Schaub)

Steelers (Big Ben)

 

Still a pretty solid list of QBs. I would even call them Stellar. Your point holds no water.

As Dickie J would say "It's hard to win in the NFL" and it is even harder to win without a damned good QB. If we have a shot at a potential franchise QB in the draft in Rd1, we have to take it. Look at the players above, 9 were first rounders (many at the top of Rd1). 3 were second rounders. Brady, Favre, Romo and Orton where the only ones not drafted in Rd1 or 2.

 

 

Sanchez and Orton, stellar? Well, I guess everybody's got a right to their own opinion, but I would call both of them questionable and definitely sub-stellar. Most likely sub-stellar IMHO are Flacco and Schaub.

 

The ones who have clinched, though, I'd agree are all stellar, whatever that means. Does it mean top ten? That would put stellar as just the ability to make the top third of starters. Not very stellar, IMHO.

[Thurman#1]

Pitttsburgh and Green Bay. Also, Mike Gandy is Arizona's LT.

 

 

 

Yeah, but when you have one guy who is bad, you just keep a TE/RB in double-teaming his guy. That's what Arizona did against the Vikings.

 

When you start to have two, three or even four guys who are actually bad, who do you double-team?

[Flbillsfan#1]

Some of them are surrounded by very talented coaches and o-lines. Some of them are overcoming below average o-lines and coaching. The bottom line is, "many teams aren't making the playoffs with less than stellar QBs". In fact it's the complete opposite of the point you were trying to make.

 

QB play is and always has been the most important factor in winning and losing. Obviously, all the other pieces of the puzzle are important, but they are a distant second.

I totally agree with you. One just has to look at the last Colts-Jets game to see it is the QB that makes the greatest difference.

[DELLAPELLE JOHN]

draft one of those qbs

 

bottom line we can get both, qb in rd 1 and LT in rd2. buffalo literally has the worst offense in the league and we have lee evans and terrell owens at reciever. what does that tell u, the qb blows bad, i mean BAD!

 

Right now lt is the only hole on the oline. pick someone like bradford for qb in rd 1 and trent williams in rd 2.

 

the nfl is turning into a passing league. time to get a qb. i would be most happy with bradford but clausen, mallett, mccoy, pike all impress me....

[H2o]

a solid o-line would go such a long way on both sides of the ball. That's all i want to see. There are quite a few teams going to the playoffs this year who do not have stellar QBs. Just give a guy some time to throw, a few extra seconds on those 3rd down conversions, and the difference would be amazing.... Tired opposing defenses, sustained drives that eat clock, offensive POINTS. Fix the o-line please!!!!

And Defense too my friend. If we can't get the other teams off the field because they are steadily ramming the ball down our throat the offense still won't have enough time to accomplish much.

[Thurman#1]

I agree with the need to fix the O-Line ... as tempting as an early QB might be (see Claussen), getting a stud LT to pencil in with those young guards would give whoever is calling the signals a better chance to find someone and Fred Jackson more lanes to run in. There are enough QB prospects to look at later in the draft and I am convinced that Brohm deserves an off-season look. Use rounds 2 - 5 to search for defensive help (LB, LB, LB) and perhaps we could be headed in the right direrction.

 

 

To me, yeah, Brohm deserves an off-season look, but competing with a high-round pick in case he's not ready.

 

Our crying needs at three to four positions, IMHO, should be ranked with LT and QB as co-number-ones and LB and DT and DE as co-number twos. Pick the best guy, because we aren't turning things around next year. BPA among the top four or five positions, IMHO.

 

I'm already looking at 2011, damnit.

[DELLAPELLE JOHN]

the defense is a great pass rusher away from being a top 15 defense. the defense is not the problem

 

ITS THE OFFENSE!!!!!!!!! DRAFT OFFENSE. its a passing league, u have to score points in this league.